FEC committee & final report - **UPDATE post 442**

BSA International

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119866719#Comment_119866719

Hardly relevant considering firearm ownership here is a privilege granted or revoked by Government not a right enshrined in our constitution.

😞

Munsterlad102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119866285#Comment_119866285

Why don't you just hand in your guns for destruction then? Seriously, how can you honestly sit back and be complicit in this ban and expect others to fight for you when the types of firearms you have come under scrutiny? AGS clearly want to ban every type of firearm imaginable, so why don't you be a good little boy and do their work for them, like you're doing now? What happens when they come for your .22 pistol? Why should anyone care about you or your property if you don't give a sh*t about anyone else's? You try to shoot down my suggestions, make irrelevant points and show a general level of apathy about the ban. How are you any different from those proposing it or implementing it?

BSA International

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119867003#Comment_119867003

1. Why would I hand them in if I don't have to?

2. Nothing I do or don't do will stop this ban.

3. Nobody will or has fought for anything I currently have or had previously except me nor do I expect this situation to change.

4. If they come for anything I have I'll have to hand it to them.

5. Not shooting down your suggestions. Just pointing out reality.

6. Not apathy more resignation to reality.

7. I'm different simply because I'm not passing or implementing the legislation.

8. I have not voted for any FG, FF or Green candidate since 2008 therefore, they do not represent me.

Cass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119865636#Comment_119865636

Iirc Gardai are exempt from having to license their duty firearms (at least I the same way the DF lads are) and they're not the ones that legislate. So kinda pointless.

As for what to do next, what exactly do you think can be done?

garrettod

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119866873#Comment_119866873

Its entirely relevant - let's not forget, the Government ultimately works for us!

We all do the right thing, get licences, have insurance etc. Why should we have to be silent, and take this nonsense, from a couple of our employees?

BSA International

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119867614#Comment_119867614

Unfortunately, there's not enough of "us" that the government need to take notice of "us" 😞

Cass

MODERATOR WARNING

Lads, while joking is all well and fine please remember this is a public forum and what is meant in jest will be bastardised into something else to suit an agenda.

So keep the comments above board.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119866324#Comment_119866324

I'll call anyone who advocates throwing any other gun type or person or shooter under the bus to save themselves here more than a rat, and to their face too,and if they don't like it we can sort it outside in the parking lot too. Comradeship HAH!!Some nerve...Bloody Judas more like.And stupid too as they obviously have learned nothing from those that have gone before with this.

Oh so now you want FUNI to ride to the rescue when you yourself were bitching and moaning here that we are "not speaking for the majority of shooters" and have" no mandate to speak for anyone"? And thanks I'm sure we'll manage without your assistance and input too.

Why not go and complain to the "approved organisation run by the NARGC?FURG.After all, they are supposedly running this approved response. Or how about NASRPC?After all, this directly affects one of their disciplines, M1 carbine...

Firearms that "draw attention"... What colour is the sky on the planet you are currently on??... Do you not get it? The anti-gun lobby do not give a fiddley about your SXS and bolt action .22.Next it will be target and hunting rifles..." High power sniper rifles than can shoot 10 miles and destroy tanks with one single round" They want them ALL gone...End of... You do not negotiate with people like this who are prepared to play the long game to destroy your ownership. So saying one type of gun will draw more attention than another is just ostrich thinking.[Put head in the ground leaving ass to be kicked].

What has NI got to do with anything?That happened over 50 years ago, and was a complete disaster by the Irish govt,that is STILL paying appx 4 million PA of our tax euros in security by the army on now a bunch of guns that they can't get rid of as it is Irish civilian property that the govt temporarily confiscated and by doing so took direct responsibility for. This is like the dormant bank accounts,still have to pay out if someone shows up with the paperwork to collect grandpa's Thompson or 5 punt savings account.

BSA International

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868952#Comment_119868952

1. Read my posts again re FUNI. Apart from you who's in it or has a say in it? Another solo run that done more damage!

2. I'm a member of at least one of your approved" orgs. As I said in earlier post nobody ever sone anything to help me get what I have so I already know going to any of them is pointless.

3. Read my previous posts, we agree PTB want all firearm gone.

4. Hissy fits don't impress me. Threats of violence? Hardly conducive to firearms ownership.

5. Recent events in NI don't bode well for continuance of "peace" with Loyalists making threats and 1972 all over again 😞 .......

6.It's you who needs to come live in the real world. .....

Grizzly 45

There are two things an Irish politician in power fears the most;

1] Being attached to a scandal or incident that potentially shows them in a bad light and may damage their position.

2] Anything that might damage their chances of re-election.

So plenty to work with there and if people have the testicular matter to want to do so.

3] Legal challenge to both this proposed legislation and /or FEC as it was clearly not constituted as an impartial body, esp the Chair being quite in tight with a certain Cork politician as per her FB pages.Get that under an HC judicial review,and the whole act section has to be re-examined.However,that means putting hands in pockets...so I wont wait for that to happen.

4] Consider alterations to the guns themselves to make them compliant IE NON semi auto.

Also, unconfirmed scuttlebutt. It seems DOJ /AGS were in favour of grandfathering the post-2015 licenses as the easy solution to this, and were totally shot down on this by the Minister[s]

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869036#Comment_119869036

1] You know or want to know SFA about FUNI.

Despite you been given plenty of advice and info on the group and where it is and what it stands for EU-wide.So... "Solo runs" as you call them from FUNI got more info from the DOJ and more importantly the EU , than your approved orgs have ever got here and given publically to their members?

2] Why are you not bitching to the approved org you are a member of?

You seem to be paying membership and getting VERY little representation or information from any of them. [FUNI doesn't charge any membership either BTW]Apart from grandiose announcements and little follow-up. Still waiting for that "robust reply" to the DOJ from one of them about ammo storage in suitable receptacles

3] Agreed, but not sorted by ostrich,or "don't mention the semi-autos!" thinking will save your particular gun.

4] Threat of violence?🤣 .it can also mean a loud heated argumentative discussion away from polite company too.But I suppose being Irish you immediately thought punch up...Really!🤣

5] The Loyalists going back to war???... And I thought I was the paranoid one!🤣🤣🤣.

A bunch of basically now Narco street gangs posing as Loyal, well-trained armed subjects to the King,with just as little arms as they had before the last troubles started...Nah!

What would be more interesting to see is how Dublin ever intends to integrate our polar opposite firearms laws into a 32-county united Ireland.Esp things like concealed carry permits,and what will the new police force of a united Ireland be?

BSA International

1. Grizzly, answer my question @ 1. above?

2. They give me insurance cover.

3. Neogiate? How do we negotiate? We have only one "right" when it comes to firearms, the right to apply for a licence, (unless, you are prohibited by legislation).

FB/SA, not my fight or problem.

4. *pulls up seat, gets popcorn* ...........

Cass

1] Being attached to a scandal or incident that potentially shows them in a bad light and may damage their position.

2] Anything that might damage their chances of re-election

What exactly shows them in a bad light or would damage their chance for re-election? This ban?

Not a chance.

The majority of people through apathy or ignorance think firearms should be banned so this ban would not damage any TDs standing or chance of re-election.

3] Legal challenge to both this proposed legislation and /or FEC

As for challenges to the legislation, that would require the courts and iirc only when it's an actual act. Not while its still in "bill form".

As for challenges to the FEC, it was a Ministerial initiative, not subject to review or legislation by the courts and completely at the Ministers discretion as there was no need, right or onus on the Minister to create such a group. In short she didn't have to appoint a committee and we had no expectation of anything as we have on rights in this matter.

4] Consider alterations to the guns themselves to make them compliant IE NON semi auto.

This would be the only course of action left open to everyone, well those willing.

I'm am, without intending to, knocking most things because this is the absolute literal example of closing the barn door after the horse has bolted. Some of this stuff would have been useful, helpful or perhaps even effective two, three or four years ago.

I just don't see any of it being of any use and if the scuttlebutt you speak of is true and she is ignoring AGS/DoJ advice on grandfathering she already has her mind made up.

Cass

MODERATOR NOTIFICATION

Let's leave any of the non relevant topics out of the thread.

itisnotgrand

Picture yourself as young person, (I’ve God willing another 60 years of shooting fun ahead of me) female or green to the sport. It’s incredibly difficult as is to get the correct knowledge in all things Irish firearms. A forward thinking solution would be an educational and friendly welcome for new shooters. I found when I entered the sport it to be difficult to get info and make friends with shooters (privacy and security issues aside). If it was easy to get info and the myths and many many firearm laws were easy for all people to understand then we would surly have more than 38 SACF owners to start with…. Give that a serious thought. Sport dies without new blood. AGS don’t need to lift a pen if they know young people are not joining and can’t even get info or are intimidated. This also applied to any RFD here. Your best costumer is a new costumer, There are v v few RFD shops in country that I’d say are friendly to new shooters. There’s also many RFDs and most shooters who are themselves unsure of many of the nuances around the laws and calibres and finer details of some firearm platforms.

Now for a hard truth. If you’re a true shooting fan and want the sport to continue on here when your dead and gone then realise its 2022 not 1922. Tacticool is in. Wooden stocks and sentimental war era sticks are not. Think John Wick not Dunkirk. Support any young lad or lady with a modern toy and not derate them for not liking your classics. I can guarantee you a pistol or semi auto rifle (be it in Rimfire) will attract in new blood faster than a wooden stick.

Grizzly 45

As for challenges to the legislation, that would require the courts and iirc only when it's an actual act. Not while its still in "bill form".

As for challenges to the FEC, it was a Ministerial initiative, not subject to review or legislation by the courts and completely at the Ministers discretion as there was no need, right or onus on the Minister to create such a group. In short she didn't have to appoint a committee and we had no expectation of anything as we have on rights in this matter. I just don't see any of it being of any use and if the scuttlebutt you speak of is true and she is ignoring AGS/DoJ advice on grandfathering she already has her mind made up

I checked this with a senior retired civil servant with over 30 years in the system. If you set up one of these committees, the idea is that you as minister are to take advice from them on the topic no 1,and no 2 if it is proven that this is a non-impartial committee and are using political appointments with no relevant experience to the subject at hand,[The chair, being well in with both FG and FF politicos from Cork,going by her FB account.and being aCeleb financial legal advisor on RTE "Show me the money" in 2000,isn't exactly impartial or firearms knowledgeable] its a faulty committee and its existence and report can be challenged, and probably BETTER when it becomes an act as it is then set in stone more or less. As We are in November and FEC is supposed to deliver its report Dec/Jan[?] Why has the minister made up his /her mind on this and has this proposal already on the White paper without waiting for FEC's report?IOW why bother wasting everyone's time?The simple fact is the govt these days does have to have a mirage of "openness and accountability" by holding such committees on various topics,whether ministers act on it is another thing. But it's generally considered a courtesy to WAIT for a committee report before deciding on a course of action.

4] Consider alterations to the guns themselves to make them compliant IE NON-semi auto.

This would be the only course of action left open to everyone, well those willing.

I am, without intending to, knocking on most things because this is the absolute literal example of closing the barn door after the horse has bolted. Some of this stuff would have been useful, helpful or perhaps even effective two, three or four years ago.

Or you could sum up the last 4 years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee6-sI9rdtA

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869646#Comment_119869646

A factual truthful mouthful was said there.

Cass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869924#Comment_119869924

@Grizzly 45

The idea is ...

Take advice from ...

Courtesy...

None of which compel, legally, the Minister to do any of those. The Minister is the final word. Above AGS, above committees, above all others. The Ministers office has power to issue licenses AGS cannot as well as revoking them and as such she has the final, and in this case, only word that matters.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119863388#Comment_119863388

Anybody who applied for and was granted a semi-auto licence did so completely within the law. They were lawfully granted licences. I don't understand why you appear to be almost gleeful that this legislation is on the way.

The Minister couldn't introduce a cap at the time as that would have been illegal. What the Minister did was to introduce a defacto cap by putting in the date 18/09/15 which possibly can be challenged in the courts.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869386#Comment_119869386

FB/SA, not my fight or problem

You've a sh1te attitude. They'll come for some of your guns one day.

Grizzly 45

MEANTIME,and slightly OT,but just shows what sort of a clown country we are living in, where 38 licenses are a threat to national security and dodgy deals are being done with higher-ups in aGS in relation to firearms holsters.

.Along with AGS apparently "mislaying" over 1000 official duty handguns...Coincidentally the number of pulled firearms tickets. Would think the ministers could concern themselves more with such events and the possible lawsuits that are going to come down the tracks from this from aGS personnel.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/unsafe-garda-gun-holsters-were-bought-by-force-whistleblower-claims-42139960.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=seeding&fbclid=IwAR1A9l0c65sK6DdEXDqzJ8k1eXexXJKw9KFm7E_8vPw08cpc5xTLB9su1d4

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870008#Comment_119870008

Agree with points above.But it is the "reputation" that would follow them now thru their political career. Aherne is now known as having an agenda and using a criminal murder as a coat peg to hang to ban handguns and IPSC.

Amazing how many non-gun owners , when told this underhand deal are utterly shocked at this kind of duplicity common in politicians🙄.like Haughy and the arms trial.You might be cleared in a court of law,but public opinion might not clear you,and the whiff of Sht always follows your political career.

BSA International

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872526#Comment_119872526

Some,if not all, were told they would/could be revoked. There is precedent with f/b pistols. They took a chance and may regret it. As I said hard to have sympathy. No glee involved.

My attitude may be shite to some. Fair enough I'll not loose any sleep.

They "came for" my f/b pistol b4, may come for my .22 pistol, not a lot can/will be done to stop them 😞

Cass

@Grizzly 45 It's laughable you think that;

• A) politicians care about their reputations in that regard
• B) that anyone outside of the shooting community hold such politicians in that regard,
• C) even a large percentage of the shooting community know enough about it to know who was involved,
• D) anyone still thinks of it given the time since it happened.

You are placing too much value in our standing in society, and way too much faith in what the general public think of us.

This ban will be done with the support of the majority.

Cass

@BSA International "I told you so" is rarely helpful and never constructive.

That being said I agree with you. Speaking only for myself, any time the topic of licensing a semi auto came up I gave the caveat of "there is a ban coming/looming, so buy one if you want but be armed with all the information which includes the possibility of losing it at some point in the future."

These warnings were met with skepticism, dismissal and even ridicule by a small few who up till recently were claiming to have single handedly sorted this himself and to reassure the rest of us that the ban was dead in the water. Twice actually.

Now none of that is helpful or constructive but no one can claim they did not know, were not told, and frankly if anyone owning one of these firearms was as poorly informed as to not know what has been going on for the last 7 years then I would suggest getting more involved in your sport and stop listening to just one voice.

BSA International

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119874129#Comment_119874129

Cass, I don't think I said or implied a "told ya so" attitude. To repeat myself, I simply feel no sympathy for their prediciment.

I too agree with you listening to the "wrong" people causes us as a group serious hassle.

Cass

Cass, I don't think I said or implied a "told ya so" attitude

You've taken me up wrong..I never meant you said that, I was saying it. As per my post above. I started my reply with that because I finished by saying it.

I only tagged you rather than quote your reply.

Munsterlad102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119867219#Comment_119867219

Oh yeah that goes without saying. What they can't do is use said firearms with the proper training. As AGS don't have ranges rated for rifle rounds, they can't train without private ranges, the Midlands range is the main one iirc.

Naturally we should take a stand, the whole reason we have 22lr pistols is that there was pushback in 2008. I suggested ranges stop renting to AGS. Maybe our organizations can fund a legal challenge or at least some legal research. Sending emails to local TDs to voice our discontent as well, only one isn't going to be noticed but if hundreds or thousands of emails come in, one of them is going to take notice.

Cass

As I said already AGS is not the cause of this. The Minister wanted this and with the so called coalition and those associated to it calling for this ban what Minister wouldn't jump on the chance?

Plus no range will alienate AGS over something they had no hand in.

The reason we have 22 pistols is because the 2008 ban was aimed only at CF pistols.

AGAIN if the Minister had taken the recommendation of the so called coalition they would be mostly gone too as the coalition called for the banning of any 22 pistol with a barrel length of less than 5 inches, iirc.

As I previously said people are probably sick hearing me talk about this but here we are, 7 years later, suffering the consequences of that secret set of proposals while the man that spear headed it now sits in the FEC.

And if anyone thinks the FEC is finished because semi autos are gone you're sadly mistaken. The FEC is still ongoing and that should scare the scrap out of everyone.

Grizzly 45

These warnings were met with skepticism, dismissal and even ridicule by a small few who up till recently were claiming to have single handedly sorted this himself and to reassure the rest of us that the ban was dead in the water. Twice actually.

Said individual is now off on another Irish shooting/political channel,trying to collect others in a group who want to fight this ban. Depite claiming earlier in this year when FUNI approached him to already have a group ready to fight this...

I also found out who this politician was that he supposedly took out, from what political party, and what his logic was behind all this as to why he thought this was never going to happen...

If some of you think I'm away with it... His plans and view of what is /was going to happen in Irish politics are completely on Planet Zanussi. And if he was successful,we'd be lucky to have even a shotgun by the time it was over.

Grizzly 45

Ok. So the consensus is here . Nothing we can do,no chance of changing, lie down and take it and like it,and maybe throw others under the bus to save some antiques,and it doesn't concern me anyway.

Fair enough...Then no one will mind if we try anyway and do our own thing in FUNI about this? "Better to have loved and lost than not loved at all!" After all we are apparently just doing solo runs and are speaking for no one...So no harm done.

We'll let you know how it goes... Either way,unlike some we report back on how things go,good or bad.