FEC committee & final report - **UPDATE post 442**

Grizzly 45

More statements from our favourite politician Min Browne. Who does he think he is fooling?No surprises in new legislation...Yeah right!

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/we-want-consistency-in-gun-licensing-browne-780171

dalalada

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121046204#Comment_121046204

“80 is the trigger” what is he on about? Is that true

freddieot

On the positive side...It's the first time I've seen a minister quoted as saying "entitled to a firearm".

freddieot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121047618#Comment_121047618

Or rather entitled to a ... gun licence... which is even better.

otmmyboy2

It's just him attempting to distance and deflect from the disaster that is the FEC.

Remember that he is the one who also said "any proposed changes to policy or legislation arising from any of the recommendations of the FEC will be subject to prior consultation with firearms stakeholders.", yet the same month the new FCA1 form was pushed out by AGS, seemingly incorporating some of the recommendations from the FEC already. And the debacle with electronic sights, silencers, mag capacity, etc.

Considering his complete refusal to accept any reasonable changes to the SACF ban which would have allowed grandfathering of licences, and his refusal to meet or even hear out affected groups or individuals you cannot trust anything Browne says.

Watch the actions(acting on the FEC's recommendations and talking points by AGS) even before the FEC was concluded. The words are just meaningless PR/propaganda for people who aren't paying attention and are willing to be lulled into a false sense of security, again.

freddieot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121047685#Comment_121047685

Agree 100% . I don't trust anything he says. However anything he states which is recorded in the public domain is important. That not only includes things negative to the interests of gun owners but especially those that might benefit us at a later date.

BSA International

He got a bit of a shock at our kick back to his fiasco.

Gardai once again at the makey uppy stuff.

Be good to see:

Licence person not firearm

Mods issued with no postcode lottery.

Ammo limits not decided by postcode lottery

A set of guidelines that are adhered to

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121048488#Comment_121048488

I'd love to see penalties for stations that don't process certs within the given timeframe(docked pay or even out of the station's budget would ensure a vastly more efficient service 😁).

Also ammo limits treated like most countries(ie no limit for the calibers you have a licence for) would be nice.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208086#Comment_119208086

Thank you.

I have many times wanted to use “plámásing” in a text or email but always go with something else instead of just looking it up.

I will add the word to my phone dictionary.

:)

tonysopprano

Just waited over 5 months for an authorisation to be RENEWED and it was BACKDATED to when it expired, meaning that it is only valid for 8 months.

Ah, great service, with a smile, NOT

freddieot

Any consequences for bad performance need to fall where they belong.

AGS is a large organisation and the majority in fairness do a great job, most I've met, and i suspect this is true in general, also have no great downer on legitimate firearms owners.

However, each District should have the efficiency of processing applications included in their Key Performance Indicators for each month. These should be set by / at Commissioner and DOJ level. Failure to meet the required levels of performance should then be another deciding factor when it comes to promotion, just as success in reducing crime in a district or any other policing function that Senior members are responsible to control.

The issue is that this needs to be top driven. At present, ordinary Gardai seem to me to be over-worked and not allowed time to focus on licensing.

Again, that's understandable. However, if the State wants AGS to be the issuing authority, and this to done in each station, then they should provide the resources and manage the performance levels.

Unfortunately this again comes back to Ministerial and DOJ level not treating the law abiding citizens of this wonderful country with proper respect.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121049539#Comment_121049539

It is always the talk of the gunshops whenever I am there about how pleased the dealers & buyers are with their district/FO alright 😁

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050108#Comment_121050108

In some districts I would agree, but in mine the only job the FOs do is process firearms paperwork. Mind you they do only seem to work 2 days a week, so the amount of paperwork they get through in that time is somewhat minimal.

freddieot

Personally, I've had mostly positive experiences locally. However, I agree it varies greatly countrywide and is appalling in many areas.

Failure by a FO to do the job properly = fault of the Super or Chief Super in not monitoring and enforcing a policy of dealing efficiently with the public on these matters.

More common I believe is, Not providing enough duty time or resources so that the FO can do the job properly = again, fault of the Super or Chief Super.

If they had proper KPIs on efficiency of firearms licensing then there would be far fewer delays. If a 'senior manager' can't oversee a few renewals, how on earth could they run crime prevention and public safety for an entire district or the country. Of course our current Commissioner came from outside the state, perhaps certain incompetences are being acknowledged after all.

This a problem that needs to be fixed from the top down - Commissioner, Minister and DOJ

Otherwise it's a bit like blaming a nurse because you have to wait 12 hours in casualty.

All I can say is roll on the next election.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051187#Comment_121051187

It definitely does vary widely by district, but I know an amount of district's FOs just sit on paperwork for X period of time before even starting processing.

But indeed some districts are lightning quick by comparison, Kilkenny is consistently quick these days, just wish their efficiency would spread around to other districts.

I have to say though the quickest section of any aspect of firearms licencing I have yet encountered is the DoJ for import/export.

Usually within a week(one time 2 days!) after submitting you get the permit in the post, which is pretty excellent, and can always be gotten on the phone to boot.

Neither of which I can say for my district, even on days they are supposedly rostered on.

Grizzly 45

Wouldnt say the DOJ is exactly overworked on the firearms import-export side of things.

What would be going both ways in firearms here in a month?

So that proably explains the quick T&T from that Dept.Which is very nice.

freddieot

I've imported a few things over the years and found in fairness that getting import docs is fairly painless and quick. The DOJ staff are good to deal with IMO. They follow the law, deal fairly with enquiries and that's all one can ask.

However, it's again not the most senior responsibles or policy makers that process the Article 11s or whatever and maybe that's why it works well.

It's a top down problem that we face. That's actually a good thing. The public get opportunities to alter or affect the top layers.

JP22

Don’t paint all stations/area’s with the same paint brush lads, end of day and from what I see its horses for courses.

Some stations are super-efficient, others are a complete disaster. From speaking to lads Kilkenny has super quick turnaround times as does many parts of Dublin.

I’m one of the lucky ones, my station has a team of four who deal with all matters relating to firearms (the Super, the FO and two others who do the house visits/checks), my last sub in Feb was 16 days and a new license over June/July gone by was 29 days.

A chap I know (same area as myself) got his first license in under 8 weeks, a bit longer, probably more checking etc. as not in/on system, it’s still a quick turnaround time.

What’s obvious is that when the various parts of the system work properly, its great but for many it’s a post-code lottery.

tonysopprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054101#Comment_121054101

In 20 odd years, I have don't believe I dealt with the same person on consecutive applications/renewals i.e. F.O/Dist. SGT/Super/Div SGT nor C.Super in my Dub region

Sika98k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964404#Comment_120964404

Us ! Any Republic borne out of a Civil War fears it’s citizen holding firearms. Just have a good read of the 1925 Firearms Act.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121058806#Comment_121058806

Interesting. I had put it down to our colonial past. Anyone with a gun was inherently up to no good. For whatever reason we never had a tradition of marksmanship here.

Grizzly 45

For whatever reason we never had a tradition of marksmanship here.

AHEM!! Cough!...Creedmore challenge, Long Island NY...1874 ...ten years before the founding of the GAA! Regular practises were held on Dollymount Strand back then.

https://vault.si.com/vault/1954/09/13/the-great-rifle-match

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067416#Comment_121067416

I knew that one would be pulled up! I've said it before on this, hardly grass roots stuff. Landed gentry types, more English than Irish. Paddy from down the road wouldn't get a look in.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067437#Comment_121067437

More than likely because Paddy down the road didn't have the money for such luxuries in his hardscrabble existence as a labourer or dirt farmer be it in Dublin or the countryside. A simple single-barrel Belgian shotgun back then cost about A shilling, which was probably about 3weeks worth of work needed to feed his wife,a dozen kids probably, himself and pay rent too on the potato plot or one-room tenement flat. So it was hardly ever going to be a commoners sport in Victorian times.TBH, it wasn't much different over in England either as we were directly ruled by Westminister and land and hunting laws were the same, more or less in both countries. FO if you didn't have any!

Dunno would I classify clerks, doctors, and accountants, as middle class even back then as "landed gentry types". They[gentry] looked down their long noses at "the middle class " as those who had to work for their wealth in owning shops or factories,or mills or whatever, and not by the divine right of inheritance at birth of wealth and vast lands and titles.

More Anglo fammlies than English ruled and owned this country than the British ever did.

Feisar

Point taken, not sure that it completely undermines my thinking on it though.