Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Putin is more likely to use a tactical nuke (large bomb) rather than a strategic (city destroying).

I believe Biden has been talking about what would happen if putin launched nuclear weapons at Ukraine,I believe he gave vague warning about what would the consequences would be ,ie you might launch a nuclear weapon weapon but we might retaliate directly or indirectly with other means .

Which is a smart move, he has no idea what the retaliation would be , leaving putin to think how far he's willing to push this

I don't think it came as any surprised to Putin that the west has nukes. I also don't think he cares about a 'warning' if that's what happened, he would have expected something. Also, let's be honest, who knows what Biden is even thinking half the time, the man can't even find his way off a stage after struggling the read the script on the teleprompter.

If the west had not been interfering in Ukrainian politics for years and the Ukrainians adhered to the Minsk agreement instead of doing what they were doing in the east of that country it would not be in the mess it is now. There's no winners in any of this, least of all the people ok Ukraine.

Rubbish. The Ukranians adhered to as much of Minsk as they could given there were Russian backed armed groups in its sovereign territory.

It is Russia who holds ultimate responsibility constantly meddling in Ukranian politics which escalated into trying to stop the EU treaty through threats of economic sanctions and then invading Crimea and sending forces and weapons into Donbas - all of which are violations of Budapest.

Russia were in violation of Minsk which was signed by their ambassador. DPR-LPR contained Russian military after the agreement signed in clear violation. They never left. Ukraine complied with Minsk as much as they could do within their own power. Ukraine has implemented as much of Minsk as can reasonably be done while Russia still occupies its territory.

https://cepa.org/dont-let-russia-fool-you-about-the-minsk-agreements/

Russia is in violation of the Minsk Agreements. The deals require a ceasefire, withdrawal of foreign military forces, disbanding of illegal armed groups, and returning control of the Ukrainian side of the international border with Russia to Ukraine, all of this under OSCE supervision. Russia has done none of this. It has regular military officers as well as intelligence operatives and unmarked “little green men” woven into the military forces in Eastern Ukraine. The LPR and DPR forces are by any definition “illegal armed groups,” that have not been disbanded. The ceasefire has barely been respected by the Russian side for more than a few days at a time. 

If you're referring to my previous post, it's not what I'm saying. Of course Russia needs to pay for what has happened, and what they have done, it just annoys that so many people have a selective memory when it comes to the bigger picture. Also, there are many things about this conflict that surely must make even the most brainwashed of people suspicious. One thing is; why the hell is there no front line journalism/news coverage allowed? Remember the Iraq war, Desert Storm, etc etc. even Vietnam had it. Is there something to hide? All we get is scripted scenes of what we are allowed to see. I live in the west and this is where I want to stay, but the hypocrisy and corruption on our side is sickening. As for Biden, he's a weak leader and inspires zero confidence in so many people.

I would take a huge grain of salt with anything the author of that article wrote. A US diplomat singing the NATO hymn sheet complicit in the spread of ideology. Of course he would say what he said, do you think he would call out Ukraine for their part in what was happening (that's pre- 24th February for the rest of you) If he was truthful he would have not only called out Russia for their failings in the Minsk agreement but also the Ukrainians as well as the US meddling in that country which was contradicting their own commitments from back in the 90s. A bunch of hypocrites.

Sigh. Predictably you cant respond to the actual points made which directly contradict your previous claim you attack the source.

Did the armed groups disperse as per Minsk? Nope.

How is Ukraine meant to adhere to the Minsk agreement then?

Were you aware of this when you blamed Ukraine?

If so, your post was an attempt at deliberate deception.

Your posts are morally and intellectually bankrupt, factually wrong exercises in blame the west whataboutery.

You're incapable of refuting the cogent main points.

Russia violated Budapest. Russia and its armed groups made Minsk implementation impossible.

Ukraine was freely choosing alignment with the West, and signing an EU treaty. That is not western meddling.

Russia meddled to prevent that- more than that, in clear violation of Budapest they put economic pressure on Ukraine not to sign it.

What was that?

Some replies to your reply.....

Sigh. Predictably you cant respond to the actual points made which directly contradict your previous claim you attack the source. ---- Terrible opener, on the offensive from the start. The source of that article cannot truly be trusted as he is far from a neutral observer and is heavily biased. I'm sure he is a very intelligent person, however due to his loyalties, the full story is not revealed in his piece, completely understanable given his position.

Did the armed groups disperse as per Minsk? Nope. ----- You're correct, armed groups did not disperse, Russian nor Ukrainian.

How is Ukraine meant to adhere to the Minsk agreement then? ---- Question not framed correctly, it should read: How are both countries meant to adhere to the Minsk agreement then? - Both countries have their own interpretation of the agreement, Russia wants the regions to be autonomous, Ukraine's interpretation does not allow for autonomy, rather a decentralisation with limited powers. The Minsk agreement in itself is a failure as a document.

Were you aware of this when you blamed Ukraine? ---- It is true I blamed Ukraine, but Russia is also responsible, per my above answer and previous posts.

If so, your post was an attempt at deliberate deception. ---- No deception intended on my part, it was just your interpretation of my post.

Your posts are morally and intellectually bankrupt, factually wrong exercises in blame the west whataboutery. -------Dismissing my posts as morally and intellectually bankrupt is a feeble attempt to make you feel superior, and an easy out for you. In this case, you surely understand that this Thread is entitled: Ukraine, therefore it is correct to draw in the other potential causes of the current conflict that is going on in that country. Your use of the term, 'whataboutery' is a lazy way of dismissing those points and another feeble attempt at trying to make my posting pointless and ridiculous.

You're incapable of refuting the cogent main points. ----- Not really, but knock yourself out.

Russia violated Budapest. Russia and its armed groups made Minsk implementation impossible. -----Far too simplistic and deliberately selective. (maybe even deceptive perhaps?)

Ukraine was freely choosing alignment with the West, and signing an EU treaty. That is not western meddling. -----Western meddling, and in particularly the meddling that was performed to oust the pro-russian president to have a nice western leaning guy in the pedestal in 2014 is what I was specifically referring to, you come across as a sm, art enough person, I truly thought you might have got that point. I will be more clear in the future so as not to confuse.

Russia meddled to prevent that- more than that, in clear violation of Budapest they put economic pressure on Ukraine not to sign it. ------Of course they did. Nothing new in any country putting pressure on another to get the best outcome for themselves, if they can that is.

Have a great night :)

Your posts are contradictory - you can't keep your story straight.

Your opening claim was that Ukraine were at fault for not implementing Minsk.

You don't deny that the armed groups failed to disperse -> so your criticism of the author of the article rings hollow. You fail to refute any of the actual content of the article.

How is Ukraine meant to implement Minsk if the Russian backed armed groups are in its territory and don't disperse?

You can't answer this, so now you mention both sides have different understanding of the agreement and that Minsk itself is a failure! But you left that out of your earlier post. Why? Because it suited your argument to criticise Ukraine. You only mention it when challenged but I'm being deliberately selective? Nope.

(a) Nothing new in any about putting economic pressure on another country - that is textbook whataboutery. You are attempting to diminish Russia's meddling with this line of argument.

(b) And there is something 'new' in putting economic pressure on another country when it is a clear violation of a signed agreement with that country - which is the Budapest agreement. This is why the President was ousted - the protests started because the President was swayed by Russian pressure and did not sign the treaty. A treaty which has overwhelming democratic mandate in Ukraine. Another point you cannot refute.

So you aren't acquainted with the basic facts of what treaties Russia violated or the scope of the treaties.

In light of such established unilateral Russian pressure and interference, you have completely failed to substantiate your earlier claims about Ukraine, the West and Minsk

McDonalds opening three new restaurants in Kiev. I guess they figure the Russian troops won't be back?

But yet you keep mentioning it,

The first and second agreements were broken by Russia all well documented ,

But I get the feeling you already know this

Doesn't explain the last 8 years since Russia invaded and occupied territory of Ukraine.

Same people different handles same nonsense and shite posted on the same pro putin threads