Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119686877#Comment_119686877

The war will end with the annihilation of all Russian forces in ukraine,at last count they were north of 55,000 soldiers killed in 6 months, do the Math Russia hasn't an infinite supply of trained soldiers and equipment,they are already using stocks from the 1960s

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119686877#Comment_119686877

This is not a normal 'war' where two equal protagonists squared up to each other and declared war on each other (such a war could definitely be ended by negotiations). One country brutally invaded another without any warning or provocation and now claims that the territory it is illegally occupying is part of its own territory.

Nody

I'm bored so let's play game here @olestoepoke seeing how Russia broke the last agreement after their illegal invasion of Crimea why would Ukraine ever believe Russia would stick to the peace deal this time? This is beyond the fact that Russia is being pushed back, are sending in untrained reservists who're told to get their own first aid and buying weapons from North Korea. In short Russia is short on everything from weapons to equipment and the only thing they do in fact have is cannon fodder (i.e. untrained soldiers). In the words of a Ukrainian general "We've beaten the professional Russian army; now we will beat the unprofessional Russian army as well" and as someone who's been in Ukraine in the winter if the soldiers think it is bad now they got a whole new experience coming their way in a month or two...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119687221#Comment_119687221

Both sides are employing conscripts, Ukraine has called tens of thousands of civilians to serve in their military, often throwing them into combat with very little training so don't pretend that they are saints in any way. Ukraine even went as far as to stop men from leaving and being with their families, or is constipation ok with you when the supposed "good side" does it?

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119687305#Comment_119687305

Nice whataboutery there without actually addressing anything brought up. Let's break it down:

• Russia does not have equipment to arm their soldiers and are grasping for the drags of the barrel; Ukraine do and keep getting more advanced weapons every day
• Russia is sending in untrained soldiers to the front line to fill up the gaps; Ukraine's soldiers are being trained more and more every day
• Russia is losing ground; Ukraine is gaining it
• Russia has broken the previous peace agreements; Ukraine has not
• Russia has had over 260.000 men fleeing with in four days of announcement mobilization AND doubled or more the penalties for failing to show up; Ukraine has not

Now try to whataboutery that one about the good side etc. The simple fact is Ukraine is kicking Russia's "fearsome" army around and making progress and once winter comes Ukraine's army will be full equipped to handle it unlike the Russian army of mainly untrained cannon fodder sent in to try to work as a stop gap. Ukraine has zero reason to talk peace atm because they are winning and Putin is losing and Russian opinion is swinging against Putin rapidly and will only accelerate as the losses increase. Peace will come with Russia kicked out of Ukraine negotiated with the new leader of Russia once Putin has had an accident with a window as is so common these days in Russia.

ilkhanid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119683256#Comment_119683256

Didn't somebody once say-might have been Sun Tzu-that raw recruits resemble an army the way that a heap of building materials resembles a house.

In case you forgot, Ukraine is also begging constantly for weaponry and supplies from Western nations both nations are sending untrained soldiers to the front that's a fact that shouldn't be denied.

You can believe whatever you want. Nothing I say can convince you but from what I have seen Russia doesn't appear to be losing just yet. Although I will admit, I am surprised that they haven't completely destroyed Ukraine's electricity grid just yet. Although perhaps they are waiting for the cold weather in the winter in order to plunge Ukraine into darkness and possibly target their gas infrastructure as well. I feel sorry for the civilians who are going to be left without electricity and heat if some sort of compromise doesn't happen before then.

ilkhanid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119686818#Comment_119686818

Maybe the French living in German-occupied France felt the same way? What do you think? Did they object to D-Day?

moon2

In case you forgot, Ukraine is also constantly receiving weaponry and supplies from Western nations 

I fixed your statement to make it more accurate! I hope that helps! It really highlights the superior level of equipment the Ukrainian forces have, just like nody was saying.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119687443#Comment_119687443

You talk about Ukraine receiving weapons from other countries as if it is a negative! Russia is also receiving weapons fom other countries, although only pariah states with very few allies (NK, Iran). Russia would be begging other nations for weapons but they know nobody will listen and they would be wasting their breath as nobody wants to deal with a warmongering mafia state who indiscriminately target civilians.

You seem excited at the thought of Russia (further) targeting civilian infrastructure and further suffering of the Ukrainian people. I'm sure it is because you know that such tactics are the only way Russia can gain an advantage as they are getting beaten on the battlefield. It just shows how disingenuous your claims to want peace are.

Perhaps you could address yesterdays targeting of a humanitarian convoy by Russia?

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

I've deleted a bunch of posts and warned two people.

If you're just here to wind people up or hurl insults, this isn't the place for you. You should open a Twitter account instead. This is a forum for discussion and debate.

If you think someone is breaking the rules, don't derail the discussion by calling it out on thread. Report their posts and leaving the moderating to the moderators.

If you're new here, please read the charter before posting. You're expected to make your own points and back up your own assertions. Dumping links to videos or articles saying "watch this" or "read this" is not an acceptable contribution. Links are meant to support your assertions, not replace them.

Thank you

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

@olestoepoke is now banned for PMing me to suggest that I have intercourse with myself.

Brussels Sprout

I haven't seen any Ukrainians who wish to stop fighting if it means losing the territory that Russia is currently squatting on. I think we should listen to them about what they want for their own country.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119688132#Comment_119688132

I'm not entirely sure the "give Russia whatever it wants ... for peacccccce!" is a particularly amazing or sound strategy. It's so nauseating in its hubris and intellectual insincerity. Oh Brussels Sprout, don't you love peace?? Contrarians volunteering parts of Ukraine like it was nothing; said it before so many times, but for all the ranting about "the west" it's a helluva imperialist, western outlook to simply chatter that Ukraine cede its territory "for peace".

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119687305#Comment_119687305

Where are you getting that from Ukraine is sending people to the front with no training ,

They are being trained and equipped by Nato forces something like 10,000 at a time across multiple countries before being returned to Ukraine where they are then placed in units ,

Russia is picking people up and 24 hours later they are in Ukraine with no training and very little equipment,

Also Russia is stopping men leaving the country too ....

JL555

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119688291#Comment_119688291

'Russia is picking people up and 24 hours later they are in Ukraine with no training and very little equipment,' is this true? Could you post a link?

It would be good to compare the actual level of training each side has against each other. Because if what you say is really happening, then you'd have to wonder about the effectiveness of the kind of training NATO are dishing out, as by now, the Russians would be gone back to the motherland.

20silkcut

Putin talks in his speech about natural resources being the true currency of the world. He thinks the resource starved west is on the point of failure. He demonstrates a truly Neanderthal level of understanding of how the world works. Resource rich countries are often the most kleptocratic starved of work ethic, innovation and economic diversity

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119686856#Comment_119686856

Your problem is that you think it is unnecessary to push genocidal invaders out of your land.

You are wrong.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119688609#Comment_119688609

He's really a very limited leader alright. Though I suppose these kind of corrupt + stagnant resource-cursed countries run by dictators or monarchs are just wonderful if you are living high on the hog as one of the main kleptocrats, or the kleptocrat-in-chief ordering everyone else around (i.e. Putin)!

Also the key country of the West is the US, and like Russia it has vast natural resources. Europe is oil and gas poor vs ME/US/Russia certainly, but don't think it's badly off for most other things if push comes to shove and it (we) needed to be more self reliant in future (which seems to be becoming more necessary now the way the world is going).

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119684215#Comment_119684215

The Russians claim is was the AFU . How many have the AFU killed .

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119688976#Comment_119688976

Yes, we do need to be self reliant, and we have been good at some of this.

We have invested heavily in education which has resulted in the FDI and multinationals operating the European and Middle East headquarters her. Pharma and information tech is very well represented. Beef and dairy are doing very well. Wind is doing well and could do more, but held back by planning.

The 'west' has allowed China to become the world's manufacturer. This must stop. It is based on global supply chains, which have been shown to be unreliable, when just one ship running aground gives rise to global chaos.

Russia is a one trick pony - gas and oil and that is it. Apart from some agriculture and fertilizer, they have nothing the world wants. They are not wealthy as an economy, and are very vulnerable as they are dependent on the 'west' for technology and China for manufactured goods.

Even if they annexed the whole of Ukraine, and even Belarus, they add no solutions to these deficits because they do not have the managerial nor political skills to take themselves out of the abyss they are in. Kleptocracy is not a good political system for a nation because too much goes 'missing' and the lid is kept on society by brutal suppression and propaganda.

Ukraine must keep fighting while they still can and push Russia from all their land - there is no alternative.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119688132#Comment_119688132

Where did you meet these Ukrainians in Ireland easy to say when they are not likely not to be recruited to fight .

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119688361#Comment_119688361

Russia is literally in the process of rounding up people to send to fight. Heretofore, Ukraine has been fighting trained professional soldiers and are on the front foot. They have wiped out a large portion of Russia's professional army, hence the need to cobble together more units from the dregs of society in their prisons. Russia stopped its offensive months ago when they realised they couldn't take the whole country, now they are taking the easier option of defending the south/east. Attacking is harder than defending but Ukraine are still advancing and liberating towns so yeah, the NATO training does seem very effective.

The desperation of some people to find a negative angle for the Ukraine in everything is astonishing, if only they would put that brain power towards something worthwhile.

JL555

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119689110#Comment_119689110

I really don't think that's true, ie, your last sentence. I actually think there are people who are really trying to see more than one side to the conflict, might not always come across that way. I don't think people are intentionally down on Ukraine, certainly not me, they're decent enough people and it's a nice country, been there a couple of times. But I appreciate a mixed type of discussion as it makes you think and maybe even find out something that you might not have been aware of. For me, I do try to keep an open mind, I might not agree with everyone and vice versa, but I like having the freedom to express my opinions, with respect I hope.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119689068#Comment_119689068

The Russians have claimed that practically every single one of their civilian massacres was a false-flag operation carried out Ukraine. They have no credibility. There is plenty of evidence that shows that they have repeatedly shown to be outright lying. If you don't want to believe that then that's up to you - you are free to believe any conspiracy theories yourself after all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119689078#Comment_119689078

Not sure why made the assumption that I met these people in Ireland. There's no shortage of Ukrainians online and on television. The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians still in Ukraine believe they need to keep fighting the invaders. They also overwhelming believe that they will be victorious in doing so.

Gatling

@Pete_Cavan The desperation of some people to find a negative angle for the Ukraine in everything is astonishing, if only they would put that brain power towards something worthwhile.

It's a common repeated across several threads and usually the same tactics I'm only asking questions I don't know anything about the conflict but my Ukrainian said the Russians aren't that bad and ukraine should give up their territory for peace and Putin will be happy and leave them alone....

But the west and Nato caused all of this I don't blame Putin

The same story or similar appears every Ukraine thread over the last 8 years,

Gatling

Belarus is preparing for the arrival of 20,000 Russian troops,this could be Dangerous if they aren't poor unfortunate conscripts,

An extra 20,000 on Ukraines border would mean them having to reenforce their flank while keeping the momentum pushing forward into the east

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1576254257153867776?s=20&t=c6ROH8TTdpvaWdSrgiuk4w

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119689773#Comment_119689773

I think we made mistakes** but Ukraine is fighting for its lives against a crowd of thugs and cowed who should be back home in their insane asylum

There is no grey area ,but if Russia somehow prevails then we will have to accept that .

Until then give Ukraine all the military, financial,moral and practical support it needs .

If Ukraine can achieve peace with honour we should continue to assist them(along with reparations from Russia)as they have shown they are the best among us.

**edit:not clear in my own mind what mistakes they were but this is not where we wanted to end up,for sure.

bear1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119689820#Comment_119689820

Surely Belarus entering must be a reason for Ukraine to call on support?

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119690037#Comment_119690037

They're not entering - just acting as hosts and potentially allowing Russians attack from their territory, like they did at the start of the war.