Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

1…8384868889…189

Comments

  • #2552
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I've just heard that the department wants TII to undertake a full legal review of the project before submitting a railway order. Looks dead I'm afraid, 1000 cuts.



  • #2553
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,801 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Never let a good crisis go to waste by not cancelling a major Dublin infrastructure project.

    "We'd love to build it, but..." mica / Ukraine / inflation / housing. Take your pick.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #2554
    yer man!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭yer man!


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119244522#Comment_119244522

    What does a full legal review mean? The department is under Eamon Ryan's direction no? He can determine what is asked for and what is not.



  • #2555
    JPup
    Registered Users Posts: 908 ✭✭✭JPup


    What department? What would the nature of the review be?



  • #2556
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,296 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Where is the official source for that information?

    Is it from the Dublin Commuter Coalition or something as I cannot find it on Google so far. It sounds very concerning that this full legal review for ML would be done now when it's really close to having it's business case being approved by the cabinet.

    If this project is going through a full legal review at this point in time; Do we have any indication of how long that will last before it's railway order being submitted to ABP?

    EDIT: I have just found this on Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1539360466115387395?s=20&t=8fybHUazRmMOudS1__bU6A

    It may shed an important light about this apparent legal review on ML if the RO has to submitted to go into the planning system.



  • Advertisement
  • #2557
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119246529#Comment_119246529

    Perhaps he asked for it



  • #2558
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119246770#Comment_119246770

    Hasn't been made public, information is from the NTA. A full legal review means whatever the solicitor they hire wants it to mean, so its in their interest to make months of work out of it.



  • #2559
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119244522#Comment_119244522

    A legal review of the book of reference? This isn't new. It's a fairly standard process for railway order applications immediately before submission. It started two months ago.



  • #2560
    MyLove4Satan
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    The metro is not going to happen. That is what is means.



  • #2561
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119250832#Comment_119250832

    Does that mean the Cork Line Level Crossings Project won't happen either?

    Screenshot_20220626_024235~2.jpg

    We're like a week away from government approval. Lighten up.



  • Advertisement
  • #2562
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Are you saying Cork Level Crossings already had and completed a legal review? (I didn't know)



  • #2563
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I'm now hearing that the metrolink RO documents are poor. I know that they've had basically no constructive engagement with DART+ and BusConnects teams in terms of construction programme, which is crucial at Glasnevin and apparently they've told Irish Rail where to go on that front. They're now printing documents containing drawings of interfaces with very early drafts of bus connects. No serious market consultation has happened and the preliminary design documents are very weak, less than a dozen typical cross sections, completely insufficient utility diversion information etc. They're long way off a successful RO application. I get the sense metrolink is very much being ran by the wrong team, it's 90% ego and very little planning or construction experience.

    In better news Bus Connects has 3 corridors in for planning and more to come. DART+ Maynooth line is gone to printers and ready to submit for RO by end of July.



  • #2564
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I have more information as of today. Metrolink will delay their RO submission untill late September, the NTA are now also demanding that Irish Rail come to some legal agreement with metrolink/TII before submitting their RO for the Maynooth line. This may also delay the DART which was otherwise good to go at the end of July. That could now push to the end of August



  • #2565
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,801 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    As Michael Biehn said in The Terminator...

    What year?

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #2566
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277508#Comment_119277508

    It's been September for a while now, sadly. Since March, I think. They haven't said that publicly though. They will have to soon.



  • #2567
    VeryOwl
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭VeryOwl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119278645#Comment_119278645

    Every target and revised target has been missed and so will the September one.



  • #2568
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,220 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1543985229580406784?t=4hAHQKAz2kOv8pfhr9y5Rw&s=19


    Approved by cabinet today, apparently. About time.



  • #2569
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    9.5bn, wow.



  • #2570
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,696 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    €9.5bn!



  • #2571
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Probably be more than that by the end of it, but it would cost more to not build it in lost economic output.



  • Advertisement
  • #2572
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Clearly a story written as a pretext for project cancellation. There is no way that €9.5bn will be paid for a single public transport project in this country. If policy changes to seriously deprioritising cars, a surface route could be delivered on all arterial routes for less money, journey times would be slightly longer than metro but I don't see how such a price tag can be justified when we have the road space, we just need to take it from cars and give it to PT and cycling.



  • #2573
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,335 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    €9.5bn for a 19km partially underground tram is **** mental pricing. I can see there being big backlash at that price in the ever continuing rural vs urban debate.

    It may be time for a greater debate in the western world about how much projects like this are costing. This is mental stuff at the end of the day.



  • #2574
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289929#Comment_119289929

    No, this is a post-NCH price tag with significant cost overruns built in and taking recent inflation into account. Arriving at these figures is why the business case review took a year. They're not lowballing it.

    I would have preferred if they lowballed it.



  • #2575
    mikeybhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Construction not beginning until 2031 and not finishing until 2034 is not good enough. Construction needs to start ASAP. When construction starts it will be likely be delayed further so pushing 2035/36. If they started in the next 2 years it could be complete by 2028/29 I'd say so why the delay.



  • #2576
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290085#Comment_119290085

    It'll start well before 2031.



  • #2577
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,690 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The article says "The metro will be built between 2031 and 2034, ministers will be told."

    It then says "The procurement process is set to begin by 2026, which is expected to take at least two years and then it will take a further nine years to build the metro.".

    The article seems a bit of a mess, better waiting for the actual info tomorrow.



  • #2578
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290020#Comment_119290020


    We shall see, but given current inflation and the timescale of the project I'd still be surprised. I'd build it at twice the price so I don't care ultimately.



  • #2579
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290085#Comment_119290085


    Built between 2031 and 2034 should be finished within those years I think? Its a terribly written article but procurement is already happening and shovels should be in the ground long, long before 2031 (and it would take far more than 3 years to build anyway).



  • #2580
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭prunudo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290085#Comment_119290085

    Hopefully it means completed by then. Would imagine construction would take longer than 3 years. Yhink the port tunnel was 5 years.



  • Advertisement
  • #2581
    gjim
    Registered Users Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭gjim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290010#Comment_119290010

    It's insane money. The fully-underground new metro lines in Paris cost less than half that per km.

    Dropping the southern section to Sandyford has really screwed the project. The upgrade between Sandyford and Charlemont would have cost relatively little and pushed the overall cost per km into much saner territory.



Advertisement