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Is it time to join Nato

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭beachhead


    True about the PSNI and Orange Order and their homies here.The "B" Specials have not gone away,you know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Black Noel




  • Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭Sounds
    EMar Sounds


    How do you deal with a lunatic murderer that said they wouldn't invade their neighbors and didn't want war with Europe? Well guess what.. do we wait for them to change their minds again and turn on the rest of Europe or God knows what else.

    This is really going to get much worse soon for everyone left in that country, devastating.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    The fact is the country that is most likely to invade us is in Nato. Russia has zero interest in us unless we were willing to a deal with them so they could put nukes here (like Cuba in the 60's) which we never will.


    Being an island is huge advantage from a defensive perspective too. Even in WWI and WW2 nobody was interested in us, neither was Napoleon even tho we were part of the UK then. Are geographical position and small size puts us in a nice position regarding wars. Why waste 2% 7bn per year of are gdp on defence when we will never need it and have a housing crises to fix.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Ireland isn't relevant such that it needs to join the likes of NATO, until such point as UK, France or USA get invaded by Russia... And by that point its too late to be worried about such things anyway. UK forces would have retreated back to Ireland by that point.


    Other than if there was a need for some US airstrips closer to Europe because UK and the rest of Europe had already fallen Ireland doesn't really have anything to offer NATO, other than to be a useful "neutral" negotiating location. Ireland currently gets to claim its neutral, but is also protected by NATO as much as anywhere else in Europe that is a member.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭touts


    NATO more likely to attack us than Russia?? You are either dillusional or a Russian agent.

    We are the weak back door into the EU. If Russia wanted to make a point to tell the west to **** off they could drop a nuke on Dublin knowing it doesn't trigger NATO self defence clauses. Do you really think your beloved Putin is sane enough not to do that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    We've just seen that being non aligned and having a crap military is putting a target on your back. If there was a list of Western European Countries that would be easy to overrun with the least amount of pushback, we're at the top. We need to make defensive capability a feature not something we only invest in as a reaction to external events.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    I don't think dropping a nuclear missile on Dublin would be ignored by NATO. Whilst it may not officially trigger article 5, any military hardware flying into Irish airspace would have to take out UK forces to get there, and a missile launched from Russia for Ireland I'd like to think the UK just classed it as one intended for them that missed and trigger article 5 anyway.


    Edit: Likewise I'd expect a bomb dropped on Geneva to be considered a direct attack on NATO as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭jackboy


    so you are saying he is insane enough to drop a nuclear bomb on a non threatening country thousands of miles away but still sane enough to make sure he doesn’t do it to a NATO country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭Sounds
    EMar Sounds


    So what happens when Ukraine is part of the European Union,

    Ukraine will be flattened by the time anyone steps in, if they ever do.

    I'm just curious, isn't Nato suppose to protect countries in the European Union.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    The only reason for Russia to invade Ireland would be as a staging post for getting into Europe from the other direction. Whilst nobody really thinks that Putin will stop once he's taken Ukraine, there is some kind of motivation for him wanting to bring Ukraine back under the Moscow control.


    No such thing for Ireland, it is only a jumping off point to then take the UK and western Europe, or for Europe retreating onto from the other direction. Ireland may effectively have a non existent military compared to Russia or any NATO country, I wouldn't see it as a soft target.

    It's just not a target.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    I mean the country most likely to war with us is the UK who are in Nato which is an indication of how unlikely we are to be invaded.


    Countries don't attack others for no reason. Even in this war their is a motive for russia to attack the Ukraine. Every war has a motive. Even Hitler had one when starting to invade poland as the german nation was living in poland. Countries don't invade and start a war with others for no reason.


    Russia to flex it muscles and drop a nuke on us ? Do you realise how stupid that is. Every country including their allies china would go to war with them should they do that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,195 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Map out a route for Russia to get here to attack Europe from 'the other side'? Does everyone just watch them sail by on their way?



  • Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭Sounds
    EMar Sounds


    They may have had a motive to start the invasion of Ukraine, but what gives them the right to completely destroy their country and kill thousands of innocent people. I mean, it's not just innocent people getting in the way of fire, it's russian troops murdering them as they pass through their cities. Kids being shot in front of their parents, people being raped, God know what other horrible crimes are going on inside that country.

    There may be many russians that didn't want this, but they're out there destroying their neighbor's country, and there's thousands of russians in that military with no respect for human lives, they are there to get the job done for their murder president.

    It's really sad that other countries are arming military in Ukraine, but no country can go in a fight with them. This is the worst war in Europe in my life time.

    They need help yesterday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭jackboy


    It’s an insane idea.


    The best thing we can do strategically to future proof the state is to protect and support agriculture. Far better use of money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Black Noel


    This is a nonsense claim, where does Nato say they will protect Ireland?

    The brits protect their own airspace.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Exactly, its just not going to happen.


    Unless a Russian Island materialises in the middle of the Atlantic then I think Ireland is OK.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    And the UK protects Irish airspace as part of that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,195 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The UK is, with our permission, protecting itself. That's as much as we need to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    I could be wrong but isn't Ukraine's isolation problem twofold in that they are neither EU or NATO members?

    Perhaps we can benefit from a credible status as semi-independent arbitrators by being EU members but not NATO members?



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,171 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    You need to dramatically update your knowledge of the economy! From the end of the last recession to the beginning of the pandemic, Irish debt per capita was reduced from about 124% down to around 78% in line with the likes of German. This should not be a surprise, Ireland is high value added net exporter for decades and when you are continually selling more that you buy, you will eventually work your way out of financial problems. Ireland had a liquidity problem not a bankruptcy problem.

    So yes we are as as well capable of paying for defence budget as any other member of the EU and probably more so than many states.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Not true missles can be launched from aircraft and submarines without going through UK airspace before hitting here ,

    An article 5 can only be triggered by an actual attack on a Nato nation, something flying through isn't going to be covered .

    As seen in Ukraine if your not in the club your certainly not getting any benefits from said club



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    There is a certain agreement in place but it's quite narrow ,the majority of the time the British need out permission to even enter our airspace first ,they certainly don't provide 24/7 365 aircover over us



  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭KieferFan69


    Join NATO? Yeah.. umm nah. America already has a free pass to land its planes on our island en route to bombing third world countries so what would be the point? Cementing our place as lapdog?



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Black Noel




  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭boardlady


    Did anyone hear the military expert on the radio earlier in the week? He was (apparently - as I didn't hear it myself) suspicious that the Russian naval activity off our south west coast last year was a test of NATO's responses. We are equally, like Ukraine, a non-NATO member and with our position on the western flank of Europe, a very vulnerable piece of land. Non NATO, no military to speak of, and in a situation of threat, we sent out fishing boats ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭boardlady


    It sounded ridiculous a few weeks ago - hell, it still sounds ridiculous - but we can see that Putin is currently the king of ridiculous logic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,195 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    and they backed off. Job done - more fishing boats?



  • Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭boardlady


    I fear they were very amused by us and our fishing fleet ..😌



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,961 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    We're in the EU tbf, an attack on us is an attack on the EU and considering our proximity to the UK and sharing an island with them, the UK will always defend as it's a huge threat to them if Ireland was taken over by an enemy (and if UK invades us, NATO ain't going to make a difference anyway).

    Also, let's face it, we're a tiny country, if a large power wanted to attack us, outside of having nukes we're not defending ourselves no matter how much we invest in our military. Best thing we could do is invest in intelligence capabilities so we can protect ourselves better from cyber attacks, and make ourselves self sufficient on items so that in case of a global war, we're less hurt by the impact.



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