If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
You need to dramatically update your knowledge of the economy! From the end of the last recession to the beginning of the pandemic, Irish debt per capita was reduced from about 124% down to around 78% in line with the likes of German. This should not be a surprise, Ireland is high value added net exporter for decades and when you are continually selling more that you buy, you will eventually work your way out of financial problems. Ireland had a liquidity problem not a bankruptcy problem.
So yes we are as as well capable of paying for defence budget as any other member of the EU and probably more so than many states.
I could be wrong but isn't Ukraine's isolation problem twofold in that they are neither EU or NATO members?
Perhaps we can benefit from a credible status as semi-independent arbitrators by being EU members but not NATO members?
The UK is, with our permission, protecting itself. That's as much as we need to do.
And the UK protects Irish airspace as part of that.
Exactly, its just not going to happen.
Unless a Russian Island materialises in the middle of the Atlantic then I think Ireland is OK.
This is a nonsense claim, where does Nato say they will protect Ireland?
The brits protect their own airspace.
It’s an insane idea.
The best thing we can do strategically to future proof the state is to protect and support agriculture. Far better use of money.
They may have had a motive to start the invasion of Ukraine, but what gives them the right to completely destroy their country and kill thousands of innocent people. I mean, it's not just innocent people getting in the way of fire, it's russian troops murdering them as they pass through their cities. Kids being shot in front of their parents, people being raped, God know what other horrible crimes are going on inside that country.
There may be many russians that didn't want this, but they're out there destroying their neighbor's country, and there's thousands of russians in that military with no respect for human lives, they are there to get the job done for their murder president.
It's really sad that other countries are arming military in Ukraine, but no country can go in a fight with them. This is the worst war in Europe in my life time.
They need help yesterday.
Map out a route for Russia to get here to attack Europe from 'the other side'? Does everyone just watch them sail by on their way?
I mean the country most likely to war with us is the UK who are in Nato which is an indication of how unlikely we are to be invaded.
Countries don't attack others for no reason. Even in this war their is a motive for russia to attack the Ukraine. Every war has a motive. Even Hitler had one when starting to invade poland as the german nation was living in poland. Countries don't invade and start a war with others for no reason.
Russia to flex it muscles and drop a nuke on us ? Do you realise how stupid that is. Every country including their allies china would go to war with them should they do that.
The only reason for Russia to invade Ireland would be as a staging post for getting into Europe from the other direction. Whilst nobody really thinks that Putin will stop once he's taken Ukraine, there is some kind of motivation for him wanting to bring Ukraine back under the Moscow control.
No such thing for Ireland, it is only a jumping off point to then take the UK and western Europe, or for Europe retreating onto from the other direction. Ireland may effectively have a non existent military compared to Russia or any NATO country, I wouldn't see it as a soft target.
It's just not a target.
So what happens when Ukraine is part of the European Union,
Ukraine will be flattened by the time anyone steps in, if they ever do.
I'm just curious, isn't Nato suppose to protect countries in the European Union.
so you are saying he is insane enough to drop a nuclear bomb on a non threatening country thousands of miles away but still sane enough to make sure he doesn’t do it to a NATO country.
I don't think dropping a nuclear missile on Dublin would be ignored by NATO. Whilst it may not officially trigger article 5, any military hardware flying into Irish airspace would have to take out UK forces to get there, and a missile launched from Russia for Ireland I'd like to think the UK just classed it as one intended for them that missed and trigger article 5 anyway.
Edit: Likewise I'd expect a bomb dropped on Geneva to be considered a direct attack on NATO as well.
We've just seen that being non aligned and having a crap military is putting a target on your back. If there was a list of Western European Countries that would be easy to overrun with the least amount of pushback, we're at the top. We need to make defensive capability a feature not something we only invest in as a reaction to external events.
NATO more likely to attack us than Russia?? You are either dillusional or a Russian agent.
We are the weak back door into the EU. If Russia wanted to make a point to tell the west to **** off they could drop a nuke on Dublin knowing it doesn't trigger NATO self defence clauses. Do you really think your beloved Putin is sane enough not to do that?
Ireland isn't relevant such that it needs to join the likes of NATO, until such point as UK, France or USA get invaded by Russia... And by that point its too late to be worried about such things anyway. UK forces would have retreated back to Ireland by that point.
Other than if there was a need for some US airstrips closer to Europe because UK and the rest of Europe had already fallen Ireland doesn't really have anything to offer NATO, other than to be a useful "neutral" negotiating location. Ireland currently gets to claim its neutral, but is also protected by NATO as much as anywhere else in Europe that is a member.
The fact is the country that is most likely to invade us is in Nato. Russia has zero interest in us unless we were willing to a deal with them so they could put nukes here (like Cuba in the 60's) which we never will.
Being an island is huge advantage from a defensive perspective too. Even in WWI and WW2 nobody was interested in us, neither was Napoleon even tho we were part of the UK then. Are geographical position and small size puts us in a nice position regarding wars. Why waste 2% 7bn per year of are gdp on defence when we will never need it and have a housing crises to fix.
How do you deal with a lunatic murderer that said they wouldn't invade their neighbors and didn't want war with Europe? Well guess what.. do we wait for them to change their minds again and turn on the rest of Europe or God knows what else.
This is really going to get much worse soon for everyone left in that country, devastating.
Don't be silly.
True about the PSNI and Orange Order and their homies here.The "B" Specials have not gone away,you know.
Russia does not see Ireland as unaligned.The country toadies to whoever offers benefits i.e. tech jobs or air cover for example.I doubt very much if Uncle Sam or GB would do anything if the Russian bear wanted a piece of the Irish teddy.
Lol 🤣🤣🤣
But over 20 years we will put 500 billion into welfare ,25 billion per annum , over 20 years.
We currently put about 400 million into defense after pensions and salaries are paid ,we send 800millon over seas which can and spent on other countries defense forces .
We can well afford to spend 2-3 billion improving the defense forces capabilities as seen in Ukraine If your not part of nato or another alliance when the **** hits the fan were on our own the Americans and anyone else won't be sending troops to defend us , despite the usual excuse used by many on here oh we don't need to spend money someone will come and protect us.
Sorry luv it's not going happen
No need to join NATO. The Ukrainian army are on verge of victory v the Russians....according to the Ukraine defence minister.
Or maybe it's propaganda?
If NATO will build a blast of council houses for us sign us up.
Are you happy for any government here to administer this scheme mark? Say there is another build up of tension in the north? Would you be for us sending in an aid/peacekeeping mission?
Jaysus, this is classic, please don't close the thread! ROFL.
The freedom to make our own choices Francie, and again no one is saying we are going to invade some random country the minute the triple lock goes. In fact, anyone arguing that is not arguing in good faith at all.
As I said before, if the argument is, that we get rid of the Triple Lock on Sunday, and invade a random country on Monday, it's one of the most preposterous arguments I've ever seen.
You are conceding that the Brits need to mind us, as we are too savage.
Where is our income tax reform? Why are we still paying USC? Why are property taxes being increased?
Our national debt is €236bn. Take away our ability to borrow at zero percent rates and we won't afford the servicing costs (which run at approximately €4bn per annum currently).
