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Is it time to join Nato

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  • 27-02-2022 5:44pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,003 ✭✭✭


    If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Black Noel


    Don't be ridiculous, Russia never invaded us or acted in an unfriendly way towards us. Why would we join an alliance with the country that occupies us and has always done us harm?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,003 ✭✭✭Firblog


    чорний Ноель probably posted something similar



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    We need to have a conversation about defence generally. If we are to remain neutral, we're going to have to spend some money to credibly insure ourselves and make ourselves a complete f*cking nuisance if there ever is a worst-case scenario and make sure we're not a soft target day-to-day anyway. That's probably not as expensive as a lot of people think, and we were spending a lot more on defence (in a poorer economy) as a percentage of GDP during the troubles.

    If this war is illustrative of anything, it's that we never quite know what is coming around the corner (actually this was pretty well signposted, but too many people in Europe were content to ignore the flashing red lights).

    We need (IMO) the following things:

    -Investment in our navy

    -Expanded special forces capacity against terror threats

    -Some leased interceptors for our airspace

    -Significant cyber defence investment

    -A civilian intelligence agency

    If we don't do those things, well, Nato looks like a pretty good option, because we need credible defence if we want to spend money on it or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Black Noel


    Why not, it's very accurate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Do you mean the UK, the country we'd expect to defend us if anything happened? The country that has to scramble their jets when Russians come into our airspace?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,003 ✭✭✭Firblog


    if every country used your logic either there would be no Nato or Germany wouldn't be allowed to be a member, pretty much invaded every other country in Europe (Spain, Italy & Turkey being exceptions), I hope you didn't feel too upset or loose too much sleep when the Brits ponied up 5Bn to help us during the recession - takin' the queens shillin' and all that



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Black Noel


    When has the UK defended us...in Cromwell's day?

    During the plantations?

    During the 1798 rebellion?

    During the 1845 genocide?

    In 1916?

    1919-23?

    You're naive if you imagine they give a toss about us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Black Noel


    I don't see where that is analogous to our situation. Germany occupied some countries for a few years and were soundly beaten to a pulp for their troubles.

    If other countries had come to our rescue and beaten the brits to a pulp, occupied their country and installed a puppet government, perhaps you'd have an analogous situation 😉



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Are you one of the dissident RA lads waving Russian puppet state flags up in Derry yesterday?



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Black Noel


    The brits didn't pony up 5bn to help us, they have us a loan which we pay interest on, they're more like the village money lender.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I'll take that as a yes



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,927 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I thought they'd be signing up in their legions to fight against imperialism in Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Relax brah


    was unaware of state investments during the trouble - have you any specific example of that?

    not questioning your accuracy, just interested in learning more.

    thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    We were spending about 1.5% of GDP on defence during the Troubles, we spend about .5% now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,381 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Yes.

    Its time to get off the fence and expecting others to watch our backs.

    There are smaller nations than us joined up and playing their part.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Still no as I think we are covered by the EU collective defence policy, without being bound to any required levels of expenditure or American interference. Happy to be corrected on this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Because NATO needs another dependant state that offers them nothing....



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,099 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    No it's not it's bad enough all the UN stuff in the past couple years yet the country hasn't ratified the un rights for people with disabilities, putting the nation at risk just to glorify the cretins that think they represent Ireland to add a new beaver scout badge on their sash is disgusting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭wpd


    i expect NATO will have to be completely rethought after the ukraine invasion by Russia

    an EU army would may be a better option



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,193 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    They probably don’t care too much about us, they do care about an enemy being a couple of hundred miles from London. So I’m pretty sure they’ve got our back.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No.

    The amount of investment needed for military spending to make any contribution worthwhile would cut far too much into Ireland's revenue for very dubious returns.

    Anyway, Ireland is not going to be invaded by anyone. There's no value for anyone to attack us. It makes no sense to join NATO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,003 ✭✭✭Firblog


    Anyone = Russia

    Value = some nice ports on the atlantic+ Control the airspace between Europe and US + missile bases within 300 odd miles of all major UK cities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    Stop spending 1million per day on plastic bollards and cycle lanes and invest in radar and heavy aviation to be somewhat useful to our nato neighbours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,782 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Ireland can't join Nato - members are expected to contribute to defence. Ireland doesn't have a lot to contribute. So the road to Nato would need big increases in defense, which seems to be a no-no here since it has been decided no-one will ever be hostile to Ireland (despite recent cyber attacks and current world events).



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    We can offer Shannon in case any European NATO member wants to take a massive detour en route to wherever, possibly the Defence Forces have a developed a dance routine for TikTok and Colin Fennelly can still pull hard with a hurl. Truth is, the PSNI backed by a few Orange bands could probably invade us successfully



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Perhaps - but first we would need to match spending on Defence as a percentage of GDP as per NATO standards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Black Noel


    Lol, so you accept they don't give a sh1t about us yet you hold on to the fairy tale that 'they've got our back'.

    You're fooling yourself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,193 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    The two are not mutually exclusive. They would have our back against any aggressor in the interest of self preservation. Noel, it’s fair to say that the only reason someone would invade Ireland, would be to launch an attack against England.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Not necessarily true. The 2% of GDP is a target - many countries don't meet it and aren't compelled to meet it. In fact, only 5 treaty members hit or exceed that target.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭mikethecop



    how are you fixed for the junior cert comrade ?



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