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Ireland's defensive frailty exposed by Russian exercise

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Be interesting to see where they move their exercise to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Likely just outside the economic area , but don't be one bit surprised if there maps aren't to date and accidentally end up in the same place they wanted to hit in the first place



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    Or they hadn't a clue what our eez zone entailed more likely, not many people would have



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    Another 20k would take them outside



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    They may play dumb and deny everything they have ever done , but they are not stupid , unlike



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    What did they do exactly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    If we had fighter jets and warships and threatened to use them to defend our space I wonder would the Russians have moved the drills. I suspect not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Likely they would have never chosen to Play their war games off our coast ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    Wed have been better off seeing if they'd start up the beef exports first



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    I’d say if a load of fishermen turned up and something went wrong sinking a boat full of them it would have been an embarrassment for Russia. Something they don’t need the optics of with the Ukraine situation ongoing. Easier to just move as we are of no military threat and it makes the Russians seem reasonable.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    Looks like our defence was more than adequate, crisis averted and not single shot fired.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    😂😂😂😂😂😂


    Crisis 🛥️🛥️🛥️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    We're they embarrassed when they shot down flight MH17 over ukraine killing hundreds of civilians ...

    Not a hope ,do you think they would care what happened to some poor fishermen from Cork ,they dump their own soldiers in unmarked mass graves .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    Sure they do these things way closer to other country's all the time all they do is look on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    A

    Sure they took party of that country and no one did anything about it


    This is naval excercises



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    did you make a point yet


    they do military excercises all the time, no one does anything about it and we certainly wouldnt have done anything about



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Because we no capability to monitor or deter such actions,

    But I get the feeling we will becoming under pressure from the EU, Americans to do our part, which will mean spending money on defense ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    i feel your grasp of english is not the best

    you havent made any point so far

    even if we had a military, we wouldnt have used it

    so it would be pointless

    Diplomacy worked



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭CGI_Livia_Soprano
    Holding tyrants to the fire


    You think we should bend over to this pressure from the EU and the Americans? What happened to sticking up for ourselves and not hiding behind a skirt? I think you also mentioned something about people hiding under their beds soiling themselves with “chickenshititis.” Well your feathers are showing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    It's the modern way to defend your nation.

    I can't help thinking our positive interactions with the Russia ambassador, might have been important in their decision to change their plans.

    So no need for all those new war ships and fighter jets after all. Sorry @Gatling !! 😂

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I think we should heavily invest in our military and defense capabilities,so we don't have to rely on foreign militaries to defend Out country .

    I Know you think we should disband the military ,

    but its not going to happen .


    But we will see defense budget increases thank Vladimir.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    There still coming ..

    imagine bigging up Simon covney only to realize the Russians are still coming.

    And the Defense forces won't be going anywhere , they might just be getting some new equipment though

    Imagine that!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭CGI_Livia_Soprano
    Holding tyrants to the fire


    When did I ever say that the Defence Forces should be disbanded? Not that it matters, you’ll make up any auld shite.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,908 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Crisis averted now lad. Simon sent Vlad a stern warning to back off or else.


    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    We will see in a week or so if the Russians do indeed move their drills as reported. If they do then its a decent diplomatic success for the government and possibly the fishermen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    And if not we're mugs for believing Russia would suddenly change military plans for a few lads out fishing from Cork .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,771 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    crisis averted ,I always have said you catch more bees with honey.


    no need for tax increases to fund a paranoia defence force.


    just bring the Russians /North Koreans / etc in for a sing sing, few pints and sure we’ll be grand



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    That's right, it will be interesting to see how it works out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Micko67


    @CGI_Livia_Soprano

    What would would you say “thanks for all the foreign direct investment, pharmaceutical, micro processor plants, data centres and jobs but if you thinks we are going to monitor any threats against them including the sea lanes to get the products out you can stick it where the Sun don’t shine”??



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've had these types of discussions with many of my eastern european friends over the years. And even though most do tend to agree, it's very hard to detach from this mindset. It's a big part of who they are. We are actually lucky here in Ireland, as we don't really have the same hangups and militaristic mindset.

    This is a bit ironic. You have the mindset you have only because (a) Ireland has the good fortune to be surrounded by deep salt water and (b) the relative benevolence of the Brits in the 19th and 20th centuries. Our little flying columns would have only impelled Nazi Germany, China, Japan or Bolshevik Russia to slaughter our population by the townload had any of them been the occupying power back in the day.

    Living on a flat plain bereft of natural barriers as the people of eastern Germany, Lithuania, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia, et al. do changes the mindset dramatically, very understandably so.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭CGI_Livia_Soprano
    Holding tyrants to the fire


    No I don’t think the Defence Forces should function as a private security firm for multinationals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,040 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I've been watching this Thread with bemusement. This has been blown out of all proportions (No Pun intended)

    Naval exercises occur off the Irish coast regularly, it would seem to me the only question was the precise location, slightly within the EEZ, I suspect more of an error on the Russians behalf and only required a move away from the location by a few miles.

    There's barely a whisper when American or Russian Submarines are spotted off the coast of Donegal or for that matter Flotillas from both nations passing by. Some will argue that's because they are Allies, I say we are supposed to be neutral and by default allies doesn't come into it. What about the free for all access of American Soldiers in and out of Shannon, the hypocrisy is breathtaking.

    Our Navy is a Defence force in name only and is in essence a patrol service with a limit rescue and humanitarian remit. Some will argue it needs to be strengthened, I say why, unless as a nation we are prepared to spend Billions, its utterly pointless. One Aircraft Carrier or Nuclear submarine from American / Russian Navy's cost is many, many, many multiples of our entire defence budget over decades.

    I see mention of Russians shooting down Civilian planes, not a mention of the Americans shooting down an Iranian civilian passenger aeroplane during the Iran/Iraq war. Talk of the first land war on European continent since World War 2 is utter nonsense, there's the Bosnia /Serb war many seem to have forgotten and NATO stood idly by for almost 9 years allowing atrocities continue.

    The Hysterics over this on the Live Line Program all last week, whilst entirely amusing and ill informed was bizzare, no Doubt Joe Duffy will take credit for the resolution, his distain and contempt for all things Russia was extraordinary, there was even talk of Russian submarines in cork Harbour back in the 60's 🙄

    There is no defensive frailty, there is no threat from the Russians or any nation, yes there's a wind up of Nato and like it or Not, Putin has and contues to play a blinder, he's taking the Pee and loving every minute of it.

    The Results just In

    Russia and The Irish Fishing industry 10

    Nato 0

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

    ― Smedley D. Butler, War Is A Racket



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,131 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    According to Sunday Independent a report next week will recommend a up to a tripling of defence spending and an overhaul of the Navy and Air Corps.


    This is welcome but must be acted on and not on shelf gathering dust.

    No one is looking for aircraft carriers or some large military. Just the basics like every other sovereign state.

    Eight fighter jets, primary military radar, increased naval provision to 12 ships among other things most would be content with.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We have money for fighter planes and noone to fly them,extra ships,but cant man the ones we have.


    But a suggestion the state build social housing/improve peoples lives is met by same people with derision and complaints of costs🤣🤣🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    @Dempo1 ,

    Naval exercises - no live fire excercises don't .

    Submarines and other vessels can sail through seas nothing uncommon there and again no live fire excercises.

    We want Aircraft carriers and submarines .

    Nobody on this thread or any other thread has remotely suggested anything like that ...

    Iran - whataboutry it's pre boards but it's been discussed here .

    Stick to joe and covid



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭CGI_Livia_Soprano
    Holding tyrants to the fire


    The people who deride families who have applied for council houses with sneering terms like “foreva home” are 100% the same men (and it is always men) posting in here saying that we need to increase our military spending by billions of euros.

    They genuinely believe that more money should be spent on protecting the assets of multinationals than human lives.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭boetstark


    Might not move anywhere, just carry on as planned. Ireland doesn't have the radar ability to monitor them anyway.

    Typical Irish attitude, we showed them Russians. Ireland is a bit of a joke internationally making all these irrelevant noises that nobody takes seriously. Not a dig at everyday Irish people but with the powers in office, such an over inflated opinion of their importance.

    Grow up. If Ireland wants all this respect internationally then have some bit of competence in looking after Irish airspace and waters. All fur coat and no knickers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Are you still playing the I'm an angry woman who hates men .

    Dude it's not worked .

    Move on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,040 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    O Dear very tetchy this morning @Gatling , I guess there's something in that user name .

    Last count , 4 different Threads on this topic , most ill informed.

    Just because an atrocity is pre Boards, doesn't make it acceptable incidently, but perhaps your annoyed at my reminder that it's not only the Big Bad Russians who've shot down Civilian aircraft .

    The Thread specifically asks about Irelands Defence frailty by Russian exercises.

    I'm simply pointing out these exercises have little to do with our Defence Frailty in reality.

    Thanks for advice re sticking with Covid (Classic deflection) which I'll ignore and as for the live line, I'm not alone in thinking it was was the greatest pile of nonsense last week, 4 days of Moronic nonsense.

    Like it or not Irelands Naval Service "Patrols" our Territorial waters , The Russians , Like it or not have done nothing illegal and this Article might interest or perhaps infuriate you , out this morning , enjoy 😉 I see Article posted earlier but just incase you missed it with your Diatribe.....

    Triple spend required, that's never, ever going to happen.



    But nice to see its the fishing community that resolved matters, not Government or indeed Naval Service.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Micko67


    I think a defence force capable of protecting every person in every inch of the country 24/7 365 days of the year would cost in the order of tens of billions annually I’d find it hard too see the average tax payer going for that it’s a bit much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Thanks to @source for posting this independent article..


    The second option will propose a 50pc increase in defence spending to around €1.5bn per annum to improve troop protection, in part through a larger fleet of armoured personnel carriers, increased firepower, and better air defence for land forces. This would include additional helicopters, and a primary radar capability to support national security.


    The report will note that the lack of any such radar is a clear weakness, in that it effectively means that aircraft flying in Irish airspace can remain undetected if their transponders are turned off. The commission received several submissions on this issue, with the Irish Aviation Authority saying the military “should have full capability to detect potential aircraft infringements into our national airspace”.



    Radar .

    Armour

    Helicopters

    Jets.

    Boats

    These are exactly whats being asked for not just now but several years ,by the people who serve in out armed forces , hopefully they now pull peace keeping till we are better reorganised to defend our country and waters

    The Aircorp to be rebranded to Airforce

    Naval service rebranded as Navy

    ARW rebranded Special operations force or IRL SOF (about time )

    No aircraft carriers ,no submarines,no f22 or F35 stealth aircraft,no Nuclear weapons (the shite suggested on here )

    Just pretty much Basic stuff required to defend , patrol. Monitor our skies and waters



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,131 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I think it will happen. I think this last week has, not before time, shone too much of a light on our defence policy.

    Tripling expenditure is very affordable. €3bn per year is not going to break the bank and is simply bringing us up to minimum standard with other small countries.

    The first responsibility of any government is the defence of it's citizens and territory. This is not optional in the real world, it is the responsibility of every nation.

    Even more so when that country claims (no matter how ridiculously) to be neutral. You can't have a neutrality you can't defend.

    When you do it like Ireland it's even worse, we are seen as stingy cowards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    @Dempo1 Last count , 4 different Threads on this topic , most ill informed.

    And your the one who brought up wanting "Aircraft Carriers"

    ill informed exactly .

    🤦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    8 jets suggested in the article would only work out at something like €400 million,

    Some of the posters on here on a wind up suggesting that we want 100s of billions spent on everything from stealth bombers to submarines and Aircraft Carriers.

    It's pretty much Basics stuff we should have had year's ago ,and it can all be bought off the shelf we don't need anything built to a Irish special Requirement that doesn't already exist,



  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Black Noel


    No foreign country defends us, they defend themselves and allow some of us to believe they are defending us?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,040 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Lol, read my OP (Slowly, might help), I was comparing the cost of One Vessel from American /Russian Navys as opposed to the actual paltry budget of our entire defence budget over many decades.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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