Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

1592593595597598668

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    Yeah all needs to go, and if the teachers are too scared of this they should not be teaching imo. A level of background child abuse has been normalised by the covid cultists. One thing that many of them clearly don't get that the longer this goes on the more the people who aren't going to forget it multiply.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,495 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Said it before but anybody who considers themselves to be a grown up should be ashamed of this. It used to be that men and women would have sacrificed themselves to protect children, now it seems we trample all over the children to protect ourselves instead. Just when did the integrity of this country get so warped?

    Covid could have been ebola and I still would rather catch it than have children locked out of school and barred from playing with their friends, they certainly aren't doing any of this on my behalf.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    By the same logic should they not do something to change their own circumstances so that they have a better work/life balance rather than support policies that caused over a million people to be unemployed for months on end, that caused severe hardship on other peoples children, and for entire industries to stop trading?

    Its also laughable to suggest ‘others could realistically change career’, as if it’s something easily done at the drop of a hat.

    I didn’t work in any of the main effected industries but I was made redundant in the first lockdown due to a knock on effect from closures and it took me 7 months to find another job, despite being experienced and educated.

    And besides, whose going to serve you your coffee or wait your table if the entire hospitality industry embarks on a career change?

    We are very quick to use and abuse these workers and industries when it suits us, in particular I think bringing them back to work for just 3 weeks at Christmas 2020 so we could enjoy a ‘meaningful’ celebration was horrible. Those employees worked ridiculous hours for that period of time at the expense of spending time with their own families only to be discarded again on the 23rd of December and prevented from earning a living for half a year afterwards.

    There are also the secondary casualties to the restrictions on hospitality - the musicians, the DJ’s, the photographers, and the taxi drivers and so on. The knock on effects go deep.

    And the irony is that by using short term thinking to support these policies, they are undoubtedly causing more hardship for their own children in the future - cause it’s our children and grandchildren who will be footing the bill for these reckless and nonsensical lockdowns and restrictions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    And yet there the certs are, just as a by-the-by. Their sole purpose at this stage is to be a sort of "mandatory-lite".

    "A further easing of restrictions would then take place at a later date when the requirement on premises would possibly be scaled back to just checking Covid passes.

    Plenty of stock, got to do something with it.




  • Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭Derkaiser93


    They aren't pcr testing people under 40 anymore so that completely negates your argument. Sounds like you're running a narrative rather than facts but that's to be expected with such a profile picture.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So you were being serious 😦

    It also takes about 20 seconds to verify if what you are saying is BS or not

    In summary, currently, the information on this dashboard does feature cases identified by reported lateral flow tests for England and Northern Ireland.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭Quags


    But didn't NPHET class these Antigen tests as Snake Oil a few months ago but it suits them now to have them as a meaning of positive cases, whereas in the UK they have always used Antigen tests



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What NPHET said a few months ago doesn't make the poster less wrong today



  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Hey boy


    Whatever the slight difference is here (assuming this is correct) does not IMHO justify the ongoing restrictions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,151 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It's almost like certs and masks are seen as "normal" by government at this stage. Personally, I think we'll be stuck with them for a good while yet.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭Quags


    I imagine we are stuck with Certs/Testing for travel, what's scary is the amount of people who will back the gov to keep them domestically



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,460 ✭✭✭✭lawred2




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,151 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    When is the last time a measure brought in for travel was removed? It almost never happens and there's money to be made fleecing people for tests before they fly as well. Nice little industry after sprouting up around them.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    No, to be specific what they actually said was Lidl antigen tests were snake oil, NPHET have never actually been against them at all, its all just a figment of people imaginations because they see NPHET as being these bad guys looking to stop people from drinking.

    Nphet love antigen testing, anyone who cant see that just doesnt understand that they were actually double bluffing here to be against them at the start which meant people would use them more because Nphet were against them. It was their plan to use them all along, now they have everyone using them like they really wanted to begin with. Ye see tey are really clever and everyone who cant see the plan is stupid so yeah always in favour of Antigen tests

    Just not lidl ones.

    All hail Tony!!

    Im surprised some posters havent gone down the "well they specifically only said Lidl antigen tests were snake oil" road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,480 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Nothing epitomizes the utterly dysfunctional relationship between our supposed Government and NPHET than this latest tranche of nonsense of having to wait and see if NPHET approve removing restrictions and hoping Big T lets us away lightly, if he is in a good mood or if Philip Nolans roulette wheel lands on Red.

    F**king spineless, useless articles. Why not provide even a modicum of leadership and say unless NPHET provide substantial reasoning backed by evidence not to, that restrictions on hospitality will be completely removed?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's very much coming across that NPHET just personally despise the hospitality industry and will go to any lengths to keep it closed for as long as possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,529 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    Why bother paying experts if your going not bother listening to them.

    Just to note I am all for removing all restrictions ASAP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Our experts were given many chances to show their expertise, yet we seen the opposite time and time again. The fact that this even has to be said is a sad reflection on many Irish people.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Numbers really are pointing the right way in a big way so there is not an awful lot to hide behind. Latest tests have us back where we were before Omicron hit. That alone points towards reversing that 8p.m. thing and the outdoor sport restrictions and a rampant Omicron suggests there will not be a chance of another variant for quite a while.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭bloopy


    Indication of the removal of the certs?

    Curious that he's trying to put the blame of them on the unvaccinated. Don't think many of the unvaccinated wanted his 'protection'.

    Wonder how unpopular have they gotten? (The certs).




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭Redo91


    I would read that as the opposite. In other words that they will lift/ease restrictions on indoor events, etc but you will still need a cert to enter which makes sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭cannonballTaffyOjones


    in fairness Ireland removed the antigen requirement only after a few weeks..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,495 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    I really hope this is the start of a politician trying to get ahead of the curve by actively speaking up and fighting against these restrictions. We can moan all we want but it means little if the ruling classes are meekly compliant.

    We need opposition, and people with influence actually speaking up. If that is a snake politician doing it for his own ends I don't really care, just as long as somebody does it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    There is often a difference between what Donnelly says and what the government do. He's in crowd pleasing mode now so it's wait and see time but they do unquestionably want to reverse the more recent changes ASAP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭bloopy


    How does it make sense?

    Omicron has rendered them redundant.

    Certs or no certs has not prevented transmission one iota over the last month.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,213 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I could never see the logic as to why any government would be expected to do that.

    To me it is the equivalent of drawing a line on the map from Malin Head to Mizen Head and announcing that is the route a new motorway will follow without even consulting an engineer first.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    Sounds more like he wants to remove restrictions for vaccinated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,115 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    lol, are they still running with the idea that all our restrictions are because of ~8% of adults unvaccinated?

    Sounds like they will keep the certs or god forbid, restrict the unvaccinated even more whilst opening up for the rest. No sense there anyways if Donnelly is coming out with statements like that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves


    If so he's being slightly dishonest then.

    Being able to go about your business without justifying and identifying yourself everywhere is a civil liberties issue, even if many people pretend to have forgotten it or now claim it doesn't matter.

    There were debates about the requirements around national ID cards only a few years ago.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭bloopy


    They are still a restriction no matter what anyone wants to pretend otherwise.

    Having to show identification to sit inside and get a coffee is still a restriction.

    If these abhorrent things are kept as this thing winds down, then everyone should be worried. Vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭growleaves


    In other words, the certs affects vaccinated people too.

    I'm not an employee of Ireland Inc. so I don't want to carry a digital keycard everywhere with me to access spaces.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,897 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Nice positive vibes in the media atm but still nothing actually confirmed because our NPHET overloads still have to meet

    It will take a while to get over the physiological damage these lockdowns have caused and the media played a huge part in that with the constant doom and gloom and negativity. Will they let go of the contest threat of restrictions returning ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    Oh that's fair enough. Don't want to get in some row about certs.

    I was just saying I wasn't seeing what bloopy saw in his comments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭TracyMartell


    If they want to reverse recent changes, they can. They can do it now if they want to. They’re the ones who brought them in so quickly in the first place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭bloopy


    To be fair, you are correct.

    It can be interpreted either way. Maybe it would be better to find the interview and statement in full to get context on the remarks.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭bloopy


    To increase use of the certs would not make any sense and would only demonstrate even further that they are nothing to do with health. Only as a punishment for non compliance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,115 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Oh I agree - it was always about coercion not protection.

    It was clear even back last October that vaccinated people were a potential vector for virus spread, and not including a negative PCR or antigen test in the certs just reinforces that idea that it has nothing to do with stopping the spread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    It was always about coercion to get vaccinated. They seemed to have dropped the whole thing of "protecting others". Paul Reid was on twitter earlier about the booster and was specifically saying to alleviate the symptoms.

    The game is up on them. Now it's just vindictiveness. Or orders from outside of the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    It's been the same for months that it reduces the pressure on the health system, countries with lower vax rates have an even higher proportion unvaccinated in hospital, in Ireland, we just don't have the capacity for it to go out of control and have been lucky that we had such a high vax rate.

    Rewriting the narrative now for Omicron (where there is far more incidental admissions) is wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,115 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    How do "vaccine passports" reduce the pressure on the health system?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    ,the comment of ''just the certs'' can be either seen as 'the other restrictions gone and 'just' this one remaining' or as something that is not a big thing to be kept in place as most people will be alright with that because it doesnt affect them (much).

    Will the anti cert thing fly now that politicians are talking about it or will it be the EU policy that dictates matters? In fairness, the DCC came into being to streamline travelling in Europe with tests coupled for those unvaccinated as there were issues of discrimination. Several countries have now made vaccines mandatory for their population. Will this become mandatory to travel EU wide? Suppose an unvaccinated person is able to travel to France and wont be able to travel by bus or rail then trying to hire a car only to find out that the government has made the cert mandatory for companies in order to operate. Discrimination by stealth.

    I am positive that the issue is at least raised in Ireland.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's almost certain that, this coming Thursday, there'll be leaks from NPHET about how they are:

    1. "...concerned about the trajectory of The Disease"
    2. "...worried about the impact that widespread community transmission of The Disease is having on hospitalisations and deaths"
    3. "...modelling suggests that we may have 2,000 hospitalisations in late February if restaurants and bars open for 2-more hours a day"

    Me?

    It's now a common cold; so GTFO and let the country open the **** up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,032 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    There is a massive change in people on here in the last week, people are really sick of this. Even conservative people i work with are the same, why would I bother with an antigen test if nothing is wrong with me is the feeling. I hope the feeling on here is the general feeling in the real world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    -> less unvaccinated in risky environments with lots of social interaction for catching COVID

    -> less infections for the unvaccinated

    -> less unvaccinated being hospitalised (unvaccinated much more likely to be hospitalised)

    -> still have access to some risky environments (e.g. public transport) but opportunity for infection is less than it would be

    But, this was explained to you before, the fact that you are still asking indicates either belligerence or inability to understand reduction of opportunity for events to happen. That's the science, come back with facts and data to indicate otherwise.

    Simple proof would be higher % unvaxxed hospitalised in countries with a lower vaccinated/recovered % (there is much more evidence backing this up via numerous studies which you will need to challenge effectively rather than relying on anecdotes).



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Oh, just think about it a tad longer. Passports will keep pesky unvaxxed out so they wont be able to spread the infection to other areas where the healthy vaxxed hang out. That way we will protect the good people against the bad people...what do you say? Omicron facts? Well, yeah, maybe it matters not now but for the future, with other variants. You never know so best keep the controls in place in case something really bad happens and we will have the tools to control people, i mean, protect people. Sorry..🤭



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,032 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    The counter argument could be would we not be better off having the unvaccinated in controlled environments rather than socializing at house parties or other gatherings which could be more risky for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    With Omicron, they'll probably be unnecessary, Timmy and Richard are now trying to revise everything such that they were unnecessary all the time which wasn't the case with Delta because that's what they have claimed all the way through and can't reverse course anymore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The number of house parties occurring will be orders of magnitudes less than those who would have been at pubs and restaurants, those at house parties would also be more likely know each other and socialise with each other more often anyway.

    The goal is not elimination, it's about reduction, reduce the opportunities for things to happen and they happen less often.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,495 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Nah, they know that playing that card will just lose them the room even more, nobody is actually concerned about the virus any more.

    The narrative is likely to be "just a few more weeks, almost there, hold firm, we shouldn't stumble at the last step, here are a few crumbs and there will be better days ahead, we promise". That will allow them to drip feed and stretch it out for a few months.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,115 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Do you have a source to back up those claims?



    come back with facts and data to indicate otherwise.

    Sure thing. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.11.10.21266188v1

    Conclusions The benefits of VMVP are clear: the coercive element to these policies will likely lead to increased vaccination levels. Our study shows that higher vaccination levels will drive infections lower and almost eliminate severe illness/hospitalization from the general population. This will substantially lower the burden on healthcare systems. The benefits of exclusion are less clear. The NNEs suggest that hundreds, and even thousands, of unvaccinated people may need to be excluded from various settings to prevent one SARS-CoV-2 transmission from unvaccinated people.

    So it looks like vaccine passports do not work as you described, the only benefit they bring is coercion to get vaccinated. The supposed reduction in risk to unvaccinated people does not materialise and exists solely in your head.



  • Advertisement
Advertisement