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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Latterly perhaps, but 2020 was an appalling year for them and the 175,000 deaths takes an awful lot of balancing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭walus


    zero covid or zero deaths with/from/related to covid or nphet disbanded.

    Only one option, however unlikely to happen, is feasible.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And total risk aversion is the exact opposite of "managing" a pandemic, or "living with COVID-19".

    Effective management would be about managing risk proportionately and taking calculated risks - not total risk aversion, which is basically a means of evading the above difficult decisions by taking the far simpler option of locking everything down. It covers the asses of NPHET and the Government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    It's been extreme since this time last year, maybe even before that but the poor 2020 Christmas call left the government in a position where they feel obliged to comply. Having some hypercautious people in government is also part of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Ireland was also a closed shop in the summer of 2020 when there were entire months without a death from covid and hospital figures in the double digits. The entire pandemic response has been absent of proportionality, there is nothing recent about this.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    They got it bang on last year on when to drop everything and didn't flinch last month when Scotland and Wales did. The stats back them up. They were correct.


    It also be noted that originally they were sticking with the "What to do if we have a pandemic" plan but came under too much media and public pressure to lockdown. And if you think it was a good idea to lockdown back in March 2020, it should also be noted that we locked down after the UK. I remember having to turn up to work here despite all of my UK colleagues being told to stay home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Whitters22




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,742 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It's also a gamble taking this approach. It's just that the fallout won't be seen immediately.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    Ah i forgot about the stupid certs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭noraos


    It depends really, we would need clear communication on what was left..

    Is table service only gone? is the need to take 5 days or more off work for a mild cold gone? Can i eat in the canteen at work? can I walk over to a colleagye desk and hava chat?.. can I send a child to school with a slight cough? Do we need boosters every 4 months to be a part of society.. if my battery dies or I lose my phone on a night out, I have no pass and the night ends..so are passes going to be a strict and continue?. Any massages/ spa day treatments are done with gloves on.. can all this PPE protective gear be dropped for treatments.. is social distancing still going to be a thing, so the queues for the till go way back down the shop, are limited numbers in shops gone? Are changing rooms back? Are all restrictions on pubs etc gone, in respect to dancing and wandering around to eachothers tables to say hi to another group, are we allowed to dance and hug each other in a packed pub.. are non COVID treatments in hospital back on fully.. can i visit my doctor for non covid related issues without having to get a PCR test?. there is alot more than just closing times and numbers at a concert.. I really hope this is made clear other than, 2 hours more in a pub... I understand these are all only minor inconveniences, however they are things we could do, pre COVID; Of course they were all required at a time of real concern.. in my opinion, the majority of the above are no longer required .. and is being overly cautious in a lot of cases, for a huge section of society..

    "To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all."-Oscar Wilde



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,460 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    This is true, they don't prevent:

    Vaccines don't prevent people from catching or transmitting the virus.

    This is false, they do reduce, "just as likely" isn't true.

    Therefore, vaccinated people are just as likely to spread the virus indoors as unvaccinated persons.

    Again, with Omicron, it may not matter much either way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Not having a parent parenting, collecting kids from school or just being present is the potential damage.

    I'm assuming for some parents it's great to be WFH so they can be there for their kids.

    IMHO, the necessity for two parents to work full-time and dump their kids in crèches from 8am to 6pm is a form of madness. Society pre covid19 has shat on families all over Ireland.

    Nothing to do with covid19 being dangerous to children.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Selfish? I'm not WFH or pro covid19 restrictions. I'm highlighting how the country was **** for parents and children pre pandemic. The situation was so **** they're willing to give up pubs etc just so they can spend more time at home.

    Think about it

    The stats show there has been no increase in suicide.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're splitting hairs.

    The point is that vaccines =/= no transmission among the vaccinated.

    As transmission can occur irrespective of vaccinated/unvaccinated, it makes zero sense to continue with COVID-19 passports.

    COVID-19 passports were a credible idea when a small % of the population was vaccinated, and it can encourage further uptake. Given there was originally a large difference between fully vaccinated and the general population, they could then summon a justification for the passports.

    But those days are long gone.

    With greater than 90pc of the population vaccinated, most of whom are double vaccinated - and many triple vaccinated - the function of COVID-19 passports approximates more and more toward redundancy.

    And yes, I repeat the point, based on the above, only a complete idiot would support the continuation of a redundant measure **cough** NPHET.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    No mention of that anywhere from what I can see. And must be gone if they plan on filling Aviva stadium, etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Covid 19 was never dangerous to children in any meaningful form.

    What was dangerous was closing schools, banning children from playgrounds, destroying their social lives, instilling a culture of fear and generating a huge debt that they will be saddled with when they grow up.

    But sure as long as Timmy Work From Home is happy, thats the main thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    If the chief medical officer is in charge doesn't that make Ronan Glynn the tanaiste?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,868 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    I think about my primary school children. They’ve been treated like plague carriers in all of this, with their freedoms and joy whipped away at any opportunity. I’m very grateful the temptation to close the schools was resisted despite constant calls from main stream media, social media whingers and people scared of their own shadows.

    However, my primary school children have to endure the following in their school. Every restriction and reminder of this needs to go – every single one.

    • Yard time is restricted to a tiny subset of the outside space.
    • Classes are not permitted to mix outside.
    • Wearing masks all day.
    • Classes broken into pods of 4 or 5 - no inside mixing.
    • Windows open regardless of weather.
    • Some children wearing hats and coats inside.
    • Staggered school start and end times.
    • Children must wait outside school gates until exactly school start time.
    • Parents banned from entering the school yard.
    • I have never met, or even seen, any one of their teachers this year.
    • Constant “social distancing” reminders all over the school and permanently painted on the ground.
    • Regular ventilation breaks.
    • School “assembly” done via Zoom.
    • All other usual social events cancelled (plays, fairs, etc.)




  • Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭darconio


    Only a small percentage caused by Covid alone though:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19alonewithnounderlininghealthissuesnovemeber2019todecember2021

    Please see below for death registrations for 2020 and 2021 (provisional) that were due to COVID-19 and were recorded without any pre-existing conditions, England and Wales.

    2020: 9400 (0-64: 1549 / 65 and over: 7851)

    2021 Q1: 6483 (0-64: 1560/ 65 and over: 4923)

    2021 Q2: 346 (0-64: 153/ 65 and over: 193)

    2021 Q3: 1142 (0-64: 512/ 65 and over: 630)



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    How are COVID recovery certs going to work with so many people unable to get PCRs lately though? That would need to be clarified as anybody recently recovered can't get a jab for 3 months

    In fairness with such high uptake and infection I'd wonder if the certs would even be worth it now



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Covid 19 was never dangerous to children in any meaningful form.

    Agree more or less but especially since 2021.

    What was dangerous was closing schools, banning children from playgrounds, destroying their social lives, instilling a culture of fear and generating a huge debt that they will be saddled with when they grow up.

    Agree to a degree. In our area, from Feb 2021, the children in our area started to play together on the road. Parents were off and it's become way better for kids. Social life for kids improved massively. Fear not an issue. Debt a huge problem.

    But sure as long as Timmy Work From Home is happy, thats the main thing.

    That's just ignorant.

    As I said, I'm pretty much in favour of ending all restrictions today. I am pointing out that for many families and especially children covid19 has been a blessing in disguise. That's how fucked up our society is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,742 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    As a parent of two young children I can confirm that for working parents it was shīt before Covid came along. There are little to no supports for working parents other than handing over a fortune every month for childcare.

    I can also confirm that it has been even worse since the pandemic started for parents. Trying to juggle WFH and doing school work during those long months when schools were closed was extremely stressful. Then there are the frequent stories of families having to isolate for extraordinary lengths of time because of the crazy policies we have in place.

    So, sure, we get to spend more time at home but that time is more stressful than it ever was trying to balance work, schoolwork, etc.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Agree, it's like they're trying to take the joy out of school.

    Unlike me, both our kids in school love it. The teaching staff are fantastic. They do interesting things with the class and the move away from corporal punishment seems to have enabled lovely teaching methods to flourish versus the past. Hopefully restrictions will be rolled back soon for schools.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Pre-vaccination, yes, bojos poor management has resulted in 150,000 British deaths

    Since the start of this year bojo has

    Aggressively bought vaccines for his people.

    Made free antigen testing widely available

    Opened England while the weather was progressively getting better

    Followed the science relating to how well COVID can tell the time and adjusted hospitality closing hours to suit



  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭noraos


    I know what you mean, I am a full time working parent myself. I only know too well, the hours I spend at work, I would rather them have been with my child, he's grown now he is not damaged cos I worked everyday and at times I worked multiple jobs. This being modern life as messed up as it is.. is not an excuse to continue restrictions, nor have huge sections of society shut down, or limited, because its more comfortable for others.. those struggling to feed their children, should not have to be that way , because other families with full pay and security, want an extra few hours .. they dont equate.. I myself have wfh this whole time, but my family members have lost their jobs, they are older, they lost their source of social interaction, they have lost their hobbies, they have lost connections, they have lost the sense of who they are, as they can no longer work.. they are heading into retirement soon, they cant change careers.. this effected so many more people than the bar tender down the local.. it truly did.. and to ask those people to consider the fully paid other households, who are using their savings to renovate and redecorate their homes; is insulting to say the least..

    I know, not a single person has not been effected by this, even those comfortable, but my frustration lies as asking people to consider and be thoughtful for those that effectively are not all that badly effected by all of this..

    And in relation to suicide, sorry but stats dont mean sh*t, when you know of someone personally, maybe he would have died anyway! but Covid/ lockdown, job loss etc and his appointments being pushed out cos of restrictions mean more to the people effected, than stats saying there is no increase, then there is no problem.

    "To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all."-Oscar Wilde



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    your first line is a bit unfair as you are suggesting it could have been near 0 with anyone else in charge. In broad terms the UK tracked France in 2020

    Post edited by silverharp on

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    That's your experience and maybe the reason you're here. I know a family WFH that gets all the work done before 2.30 school pick-up. So many people I talk with like WFH and especially when schools open.

    Fwiw, WFH was a complete nightmare for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 784 ✭✭✭daydorunrun


    It could be strongly argued that vaccine passports led to more infections when they were introduced- people let their guard down incorrectly believing they had total immunity from infection and transmission of the virus.

    I know some people think keeping them is punishment for anti vaxxers- it's not, they have made their choice and are getting on with their lives. We need to be able to do the same without the rigmarole of showing documents for a cup of coffee and the threat of having passes up dated to include boosters. The freedoms we gave away and restrictions we agreed to are not the governments or NPHET to slowly re-issue to us, it's our right. The emergency is over- more people infected in the last couple of months that the rest of the pandemic put together and hospitals no worse than a flu season according to Leo. We need to get rid of all restrictions now, remembering everybody has the right to keep living their lives with masks, social distancing- hell anybody can continue to show proof of vaccination to hospitality staff if they really want. But people in this country have for the majority toed the line and stepped up when it comes to compliance to rules, vaccination etc. They need to be rewarded now.

    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,742 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It's going to get messy for people wanting to travel as well. The EU seem to be really pushing these hard fir the foreseeable.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Well done, sounds like you got through parenting successfully. It sounds like you have one, in my experience it gets more difficult to juggle with kids of different ages.

    I respect your opinion but also the opinion of many in lower socioeconomic groups where we live. The wealthy have abnegated responsibility and we are now in a society where many are happy to sacrifice fun in order to WFH to be there for their kids. It's mad but that is what has happened.

    Sorry for your loss.



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