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Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,156 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Yeah most Republicans in power are pro vaccine most notably Trump. I think because he thankfully is off social media people don't follow what he says these days which is understandable but nonetheless he has been pro vaccine since day 1 and is likely to use the vaccine rollout as one his main achievements when he runs in 2024.


    De Santis, Abbot etc all pretty pro vaccine also, the only GOP types who aren't the headbangers in the house MTG and Boebert etc,,,and while they make a lot of noise online they don't matter that much to the GOP overall.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,937 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Not directly related to Trump but certainly is an interesting story about one of his supporters.

    Remember all the claims about Biden being compromised because of Hunter connections in Russia?

    This is a sitting Republican representative who went to Russia, supposedly met someone and fell in love and got married within 8 months.

    (Could well be another example of the conservative hypocrisy around accusing others of that which you are guilty)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,477 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Just noticed that Cawthorn got divorced after just 8 months of marriage. It's always amusing when the very people who bang on about "the sanctity of marriage" and "family values" ditch all that in their own lives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Reference the viability of Trump's chance to have an effect on the next election, the outcome of his planned media event at Mar-Al-Lago on the 6th [the 1st anniversary of the insurrection bid by his supporters on various fronts] should be telling when what he says is given a rigorous post-mortem for truth and fact, if in fact it does go ahead and not cancelled on or before the date.

    Until he renounces the lies of his claims to still be president and throws in the towel publicly on his and others efforts to promote his viability for another term, I'll decline to accept that we must take it for granted he will not run for it again. IMO, it's simply not safe to do so given the public claims from persons still high in US national affairs that they see him, and not Biden, as their legitimate president.

    If he does throw in the towel, it must not be accepted as a quid-pro-quo for his not being prosecuted on charges of instigating the 2021 insurrection bid by his deluded followers and leave them to be the sole bearers of responsibility of his efforts to overthrown the established US Republic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Trump has cancelled the Mar-A-Lago media event he had planned for the Capitol insurrection bid 1st anniversary, blaming the news media and the House Committee investigation for the cancellation. Two new lawsuits have been started against him by former Capitol Police officers.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,977 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Not sure id even see it as a concession to sense, in that it’s still self serving after all - he sees himself as the chief reason there are vaccinations, thanks to his project Warp Speed (which was a good program in fairness), and has always wanted to soak up as much credit for that as possible.

    The problem on the avid Trump supporters side is that it’s a bit too much doublethink to process… there’s no covid, it’s just a cold, it’s a trick, masks are an affront to freedom, Trumps vaccines to lower the virus risk are great. In fairness, it’s a particularly hard circle to square.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    I watched a Jan 6th INsurrection! documentary on RTE last night. On 4 seperate occasions claims were made that the event was analogous to 911...

    And people wonder why some say the democrats will have a miserable mid term this year...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    I'm not sure many American voters care all that much about a documentary on RTE, they're more concerned with domestic terrorists having another go at it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    It was an American documentary. RTE were just showing it late last night.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Got you. I expect the mid terms will only make things worse, regardless of the result. Maybe a large terrorist incident is on the cards. But the 6th is almost over in the USA and all is calm.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,156 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    It was a terrible thing that happened, but the hyperbole since has been absurd.

    I seen some people saying "democracy nearly died that day" ,,,their was approximately 0.000000000000000000001% chance of those **** losers who stormed the capital achieving their goals.

    I don't think it matters much to anyone outside the bubble on both sides, whether that is a good or bad thing is a debate for another day but it is what it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Do you think that the insurrection was a stand alone incident, without any contributory factors and not been driven by any particular narrative?

    Because that is what you are implying. That ist failed, therefore the people are losers, and it can be filed away as just one of those things.

    Have you read Peril? Do you know the legal advice memo that they attempted to use on Mike Pence to get him to throw out the votes?

    Have you really not joined the dots that the insurrection wasn't actually part of the plan? It was meant to be a show of strength, a way to pressurise any swaying GOP senator, like Pence, so row in behind Trump. But it clearly got out of hand. They got further, and some of them were far more violent, than they had planned for. And they also thought BLM or others would turn up in counter protest which would muddy the waters more.

    It is obvious is you spend any time actually researching the events before, during and after the 6th what actually happened and how close the US really did come to their democracy being destoyed.

    Also, you seem to be equating hyperbole to an insurrection. In your mind are both of them (if we play along with you that hyperbole is real) are similar? That you place the violence and insurrection in the same league as a few over excited commentators getting a bit carried away (again, I am, for the sake of argument, allowing that hyperbole is real in this case)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Do you think attempted murderes should be let off thier charges because they were unsuscessful in their mission?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,156 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    The people who went their have been have been arrested and plenty are going to end up in jail which we can all agree is correct.

    It was obviously very bad what happened and yes Trump, and those who organised it and the rubes who were larping that day deserve punishment, but the hyperbole has been a little over the top.

    Their is a reason bar outside the MSNBC echo chambers that this won't resonate with many is because the world and most certainly democracy did not end that day.

    People have moved on for better or worse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,937 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Nope.

    The sitting President instigated actions that led to the constitutional process of certifying the election being interrupted. And it is likely that this happened with sitting members of congress encouraging and guiding those actively breaking in to the capitol.

    And the same sitting President at the time is the current favourite to President after the 2024 election. Republicans held 11 investigations in to the actions around events in Benghazi, they have zero business telling people to move on from this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    If you could point to one 'attempted murderer' in the myriad of footage available I would eat my own hat.

    I've never seen a more overblown and over-exaggerated event in my life. There have been Black Friday sales more deadly than the Jan 6th 'Insurrection!'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    You completely missed the nuance of my analogy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Irish people getting upset at an attack on our democracy that day lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    I'm not sure the people saying 'it#s an attack on "our" democracy' are Irish.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    maybe your right but I don’t buy into this was an attack on democracy worldwide.

    it happened in the US carried out by Americans



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    For sure, nobody smashed the windows of any of our government buildings or beat any of the Gardai outside to death. I just can't see something like that happening here right now. But the US political climate does have knock-on effects on the rest of the world. Trump losing the election would have been felt by the Tories in the UK, for instance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,477 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I trust that all of the people playing down what happened on Jan 6th would feel the same way if some unholy mixture of AntiFa and BLM supporters had stormed the Capitol in an attempt to prevent Donald Trump's election from being certified in January 2017.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,937 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Exactly, Trumps victory enabled Johnson, Bolsanaro, Orban to name just a few and he being in power was used by Russia, North Korea, Israel to drive their own initiatives.

    Any observer of current affairs can see the influence the US still has on geopolitics whether that be for good or negative means.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,771 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Is that supposed to be a 'Gotcha'? It doesn't matter who stormed the Capitol or any other national parliament, that is not the way to dispute an election. You are, of course, completely missing the point that Antifa and BLM did not storm the Capitol in 2017, nor anyone else, no matter how horrified they were at the idea of Trump as president.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,477 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I think you completely missed the point of my post.

    For the past few days the voices that have been loudest in trying to minimise and play down what happened on January 6th are the same ones that were hyperventilating about the BLM protests and clutching their pearls about supposed AntiFa attacks at every given opportunity. Right wing media is rife with this hypocritical way of reporting. I saw a montage the other day where someone edited Fox News clips to show footage of the Jan 6th attacks with the sound of their pundits wailing about BLM and it was perfectly congruent.

    Of course the biggest hypocrites of all are the Republican party. Most of them chose to let Trump off the hook immediately afterwards and then tried to duck even having an investigation into what happened that day. This from the same party that held a ludicrous number of hearings into the attack on Benghazi several years ago. They then have the gall to talk about "election security" when some of their own members were clearly on board with circumventing the will of the people in order to keep Trump in charge.

    Make no mistake about it. Had the shoe been on the other foot, as outlined in my previous post, we'd have seen a response more similar to 9/11 that would have been bi-partisan in nature from the elected officials. I suspect that the actions by the authorities on the day would have been very different as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    No insults please.

    Post edited by ancapailldorcha on

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    This is the root of it, full square. Even on Boards you'll see a certain clatter of posters absolutely riven with either rage or fear over BLM or ANTIFA; both groupings spoken as terrorists, or general threats to democracy. Yet Jan 6th is passed off as a peaceful "nothing burger" with a spectacular degree or hypocrisy from these same individuals. Imagined leftist bogeymen are easier to swallow than an attempted insurrection by good 'ol boys on live TV. You'd wonder had Nancy Pelosi been captured, would even that have spurred some emotion?

    Even now a recent poll showed Republicans downplay or ignore what happened and who egged them on - how does political normalcy lurch on with that kind of dissonance now engrained? If an actual, albeit chaotically organised, coup is given shoulder shrugs by one half of the political establishment, what's next?




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    That Ted Cruz interview on tucker Carlson was just pathetic. People talk about the democrats getting stuck in purity tests, but it’s happening in the GOP also. If one doesn’t stick to the narrative they are called out on Fox News. Ted Cruz was right to say what he said about January 6th most recently, as he was the other over a dozen times he’s said it in the past year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    He blamed the media ? The media were queuing up to get press credentials to cover it, just not live because not even a sitting US president can demand that TV cover every thing they say live, and most certainly a former one doesn’t have that right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    An ex-president and ex-reality-tv star. Apparently, when he was on the apprentice he would ramble on for hours and it would be edited down to fit the show. He doesn't understand that live tv doesn't want to cover him going off on a tangent. Even his supporters don't want to listen to that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I was wondering why former president Trump was spending so much time trying to stop the US National Archives handing over documents to the committee investigating the event of 06 Jan 2021 at the Capitol, thinking he was concerned about documents & other material related solely to the Capitol event being handed over to the committee for its investigative work.

    Today I read that when the official bodies in 3 states working away preparing the genuine documents relating to the passing on of the vote results after the 2020 election closed, the GOP in those states had their own people preparing similar-type documents giving the vote result in the states to Trump at the same time. The snag for the GOP is that the actual vote in the 3 states went to Biden and the GOP people were, in effect, preparing documents giving a fake version of the result. It seems the fake GOP documents were sent on to Washington where they were duly given over to the Archives for preservation. Presentation of forged documents springs to mind in the case of the fake GOP vote result documents sent to Washington after the election closed.

    In respect to the speeches Trump and others gave to the crowd on the 06th Jan 2021 before most of it moved to the Capitol and proceeded to force illegal entry into that building looking for Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi, it seems that Trump's lawyers are arguing that the speeches are protected and were given in line with their official duties so that any January 6 charges are thrown out of court.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    For inclusion when reading the above post, the Rachel Maddow Show has added that there are now 5 states where the state GOP parties held their own meetings at which faked presidential vote results were concocted (after the actual vote was over) to rival the genuine meetings in the 5 states where the genuine vote result were collated and the real certificates were composed and forwarded to Washington for the certification procedure which Mike Pence oversaw at the Capitol on the 06 Jan 2021, certifying that Joe Biden was the winner of the presidential election and not Don Trump.

    The incidences whereby members of the state GOP parties produced and forwarded faked certifications to Washington in an attempt to have Don Trump falsely named as the winner of the election are under investigation by police agencies in the individual states. These may involve interstate agency cooperation as the faked documents produced by the individual GOP seem to show similarities in text and style. Photo images of the reported faked GOP certifications from the 5 states were shown on the R.M. Show. I don't know what means were used to get the faked documents to Washington, reference the possibility of it meaning offences against federal or state laws could have occurred, outside any federal and/or state laws being broken by the individual state GOP parties and members who signed the faked documents as being true certifications of the vote results in an attempt to subvert the election result.

    It's worth keeping in mind that these GOP production of faked documents meetings took place long before the 06th Jan 2021 and the events at the Capitol building on that date.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,089 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    If those fake documents were posted/shipped to Washington then Mail Fraud would apply, which is a federal crime.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I had thoughts along that line after reading of cases where people in the US were charged after using the mail system for unlawful benefit.

    In the meantime, the DOJ may be trying to persuade people of interest to turn states evidence as 11 people [ten of whom are members of the Oath Keepers previously charged with other offences] have been charged today with seditious conspiracy, according to CNN which has the charges rated higher than insurrection in terms of awardable prison sentence time [edit] on conviction.

    Post edited by aloyisious on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Trump's attempts to block the Congress from getting his papers "due to executive privilege" when Biden removed it went as expected with Trump lawsuits; he lost.

    The House select committee investigating the 6 January insurrection is now in possession of more than 750 pages of Trump White House records it requested as part of its probe into the worst attack on the Capitol since the 1814 Burning of Washington.


    Mr Trump sued to block the committee from obtaining any of the records on the grounds that he still had the right to assert executive privilege over them despite what Mr Biden had already determined.


    On 9 November, US District Judge Tanya Chutkan denied Mr Trump’s request for an injunction blocking transmittal of the documents to the committee, writing in her opinion that Mr Trump had “not acknowledge[d] the deference owed to the incumbent president’s judgment”. “His position that he may override the express will of the executive branch appears to be premised on the notion that his executive power ‘exists in perpetuity’. But Presidents are not kings, and Plaintiff is not President,” she wrote.


    A month later, a three-judge panel of the US Court of Appeals for District of Columbia upheld Judge Chutkan’s ruling in a opinion holding that Mr Trump “provided no basis for this court to override President Biden’s judgment and the agreement and accommodations worked out between the Political Branches over these documents”. Writing for the unanimous panel, Circuit Judge Patricia Millett wrote that “the profound interests in disclosure” cited by Mr Biden and the select committee “far exceed his generalized concerns for Executive Branch confidentiality”.


    Mr Trump filed a further appeal of the Circuit Court’s ruling with the US Supreme Court just before Christmas, but on Wednesday the court issued an order declining to hear the former president’s case or issue any further orders blocking Nara from transmitting the records to the committee.

    Eight of the nine justices — including all three appointed by Mr Trump — concurred in the ruling.

    Taken from The Independent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    I can only imagine what might have happened had this been signed. Other than the obvious troll, is anyone defending this guy anymore with a straight face?



  • Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    Trump has mocked the disabled and spread hatred against Muslims and Mexicans.

    He has objectified women and he has called Nazis "very fine people".

    And he has, of course, initiated a coup against the US government.

    He has the support of conspiracy theory lunatics, religious fanatics and a whole host of radical groups.

    Anyone who still supports Trump does so specifically because of all this. No-one in their right mind would vote for him because they think he is the very best option for the country.

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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,089 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    In another interesting turn for "Trump associated" folk - Jerry Falwell Jr , that supposed bastion on Evangelical Christianity before his fall from grace when his "proclivities" came to light has now done an Interview where he and his wife admit that the whole "Christian" thing was just an act and that he believed none of the things he was saying and that it was all just an act to keep the money flowing.

    “Because of my last name, people think I’m a religious person. But I’m not. My goal was to make them realize I was not my dad.”


    Jerry said that being on the receiving end of evangelicals’ moral opprobrium has fundamentally turned him away from the movement. He believes in Christ, he said, but not the church. “Nothing in history has done more to turn people away from Christianity than organized religion,” he said. “The religious elite has got this idea that somehow their sins aren’t as bad as everyone else’s,” Jerry said




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Mike Pence addressed the matter of Trump trying to get him to overturn the election result at the Capitol on 6 Jan 2021 when speaking to an audience at the Federalist Society yesterday saying that he - Mike Pence - did not have the right to overturn the election result. His speech to the society lasted some 21 minutes. Following on from Trump's recent media behaviour toward Pence it seems more than likely that here will be no GOP partnership between both men where a 2024 election run by Trump is concerned. Whether Trump will now include Pence in his "RINO-labeling" of GOP members and cause further damage to the GOP remains to be seen, if he wants it to have him run as its candidate for 2024.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,937 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Thought it was interesting that Pence came out with those comments now.

    Apparently, he had spoken with Dan Qualye enquiring if he could overturn the election like Trump wanted him to. Looking at commentary online, it seems that he is still angling for a run himself in 2024. If so, then I would expect him to lose to Trump but he may still have the capacity to inflict significant damage on him if he is in the race for any significant period.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    It might be worth keeping an eye out for a "compromise" candidate waiting in the wings for the call from the GOP, however unlikely that sounds. I don't know what the US domestic political set would look like/be in the next 18 months. Some-one with a degree of political sanity, stated religious faith while not sounding like a WASP "Christians Only Need Apply" might please the grassroots and investors with political and cash capital when the other GOP candidates have dubious records of probity in comparison. I wouldn't imagine MP going for the VP gig again after the drubbing he got from Trump.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    My first thoughts were to wonder if Pence was still in politics, or retiring/stepping down. Cos it's funny how candid politicians become when they know there will not be another election campaign, or a whip to keep you in check. So if he's stepping out of that maelstrom, Pence's words mean nothing. If not, then yes, they could be instructive



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,477 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Pence hasn't a hope in 2024. His natural base would be the evangelicals but they seem to be firmly behind Trump.

    At this early stage it's looking like the only person who could run against Trump is Ron DeSantis. Trump recognises this which is why he's been aiming, not too subtle digs in his direction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭arthursway


    I agree pence hasn't a hope in hell of actually winning but could cause Trump some problems in debates if he lifts the lid on some issues as unlikely as that is.

    Ron de Santis is the dark horse here and if articles are to be believed Ron de Santis has some real heavy backing and donations from wall Street and investors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Fantastic to hear that he's continuing to drain the swamp



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Bannon has stepped forward to broadcast that Mike Pence will have to take his speech with him to his grave. One of CNN's pundits has mooted that Bannon's words can be understood to be a threat to Pence. I disagree with that opinion as Bannon is clever enough not to want USSS agents at his door with the belief that he is a direct threat to Pence. I see Bannon's comment as continuing to further Trumps agenda through the media, something Trump cant.

    Actually as Pence's COS has given evidence to the committee, the next logical step for Pence, if he has left the political stage and wants posterity to be kind to him, would be for him to attend at the committee hearings and tell its members what was said to him by Trump and Trumps re-election agents on the day and days close to that date about turning the election result on its head. I can see that the mere presence of Pence in the area of the committee hearing room/s would get to Trumps agents ears fast, causing chaos there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,937 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Thought the interesting thing about Bannon's words was complaining about Pence and other (Koch guys) ratting Trump out which implies that he was categorically up to something rather than them making stuff up about him which had no basis in truth.

    The Koch guys comment is being considered as a split in the ideological mindset of those influencing the Republican party now with Trump obviously being on one side and more traditionalists (backed by Koch money and including Pence) on the other.

    Think Pence definitely wants a crack at the hot seat. There's no chance of him returning as a VP candidate to Trump. I'd bet Niki Haley as his running mate at this point but it may be DeSantis with the expectation that DeSantis then goes for the main seat later.

    I'm here hoping none of them get close to it but unfortunately I'm not overly confident that that will not be the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,986 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Bannon's behaviour is not what I expected from a person allegedly behind the spinning of conspiracy stories, like the Trump line of Democrat party machinations intent on ending democracy in the US. Given how he started out doing the spinning, it looks like he's swallowed his alternative reality line.

    It'd be good to see how much truth there is in the Trump party line about the current amount of cash there is in his election war-chest and how much the GOP believes the reported total is, given how Trump himself is a source of that line. If its real and not just promised, it must be banked somewhere and logged with the Feds for tax-avoidance purposes, supposedly an expertise of his.



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