If those fake documents were posted/shipped to Washington then Mail Fraud would apply, which is a federal crime.
For inclusion when reading the above post, the Rachel Maddow Show has added that there are now 5 states where the state GOP parties held their own meetings at which faked presidential vote results were concocted (after the actual vote was over) to rival the genuine meetings in the 5 states where the genuine vote result were collated and the real certificates were composed and forwarded to Washington for the certification procedure which Mike Pence oversaw at the Capitol on the 06 Jan 2021, certifying that Joe Biden was the winner of the presidential election and not Don Trump.
The incidences whereby members of the state GOP parties produced and forwarded faked certifications to Washington in an attempt to have Don Trump falsely named as the winner of the election are under investigation by police agencies in the individual states. These may involve interstate agency cooperation as the faked documents produced by the individual GOP seem to show similarities in text and style. Photo images of the reported faked GOP certifications from the 5 states were shown on the R.M. Show. I don't know what means were used to get the faked documents to Washington, reference the possibility of it meaning offences against federal or state laws could have occurred, outside any federal and/or state laws being broken by the individual state GOP parties and members who signed the faked documents as being true certifications of the vote results in an attempt to subvert the election result.
It's worth keeping in mind that these GOP production of faked documents meetings took place long before the 06th Jan 2021 and the events at the Capitol building on that date.
I was wondering why former president Trump was spending so much time trying to stop the US National Archives handing over documents to the committee investigating the event of 06 Jan 2021 at the Capitol, thinking he was concerned about documents & other material related solely to the Capitol event being handed over to the committee for its investigative work.
Today I read that when the official bodies in 3 states working away preparing the genuine documents relating to the passing on of the vote results after the 2020 election closed, the GOP in those states had their own people preparing similar-type documents giving the vote result in the states to Trump at the same time. The snag for the GOP is that the actual vote in the 3 states went to Biden and the GOP people were, in effect, preparing documents giving a fake version of the result. It seems the fake GOP documents were sent on to Washington where they were duly given over to the Archives for preservation. Presentation of forged documents springs to mind in the case of the fake GOP vote result documents sent to Washington after the election closed.
In respect to the speeches Trump and others gave to the crowd on the 06th Jan 2021 before most of it moved to the Capitol and proceeded to force illegal entry into that building looking for Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi, it seems that Trump's lawyers are arguing that the speeches are protected and were given in line with their official duties so that any January 6 charges are thrown out of court.
An ex-president and ex-reality-tv star. Apparently, when he was on the apprentice he would ramble on for hours and it would be edited down to fit the show. He doesn't understand that live tv doesn't want to cover him going off on a tangent. Even his supporters don't want to listen to that.
He blamed the media ? The media were queuing up to get press credentials to cover it, just not live because not even a sitting US president can demand that TV cover every thing they say live, and most certainly a former one doesn’t have that right.
That Ted Cruz interview on tucker Carlson was just pathetic. People talk about the democrats getting stuck in purity tests, but it’s happening in the GOP also. If one doesn’t stick to the narrative they are called out on Fox News. Ted Cruz was right to say what he said about January 6th most recently, as he was the other over a dozen times he’s said it in the past year.
This is the root of it, full square. Even on Boards you'll see a certain clatter of posters absolutely riven with either rage or fear over BLM or ANTIFA; both groupings spoken as terrorists, or general threats to democracy. Yet Jan 6th is passed off as a peaceful "nothing burger" with a spectacular degree or hypocrisy from these same individuals. Imagined leftist bogeymen are easier to swallow than an attempted insurrection by good 'ol boys on live TV. You'd wonder had Nancy Pelosi been captured, would even that have spurred some emotion?
Even now a recent poll showed Republicans downplay or ignore what happened and who egged them on - how does political normalcy lurch on with that kind of dissonance now engrained? If an actual, albeit chaotically organised, coup is given shoulder shrugs by one half of the political establishment, what's next?
No insults please.
I think you completely missed the point of my post.
For the past few days the voices that have been loudest in trying to minimise and play down what happened on January 6th are the same ones that were hyperventilating about the BLM protests and clutching their pearls about supposed AntiFa attacks at every given opportunity. Right wing media is rife with this hypocritical way of reporting. I saw a montage the other day where someone edited Fox News clips to show footage of the Jan 6th attacks with the sound of their pundits wailing about BLM and it was perfectly congruent.
Of course the biggest hypocrites of all are the Republican party. Most of them chose to let Trump off the hook immediately afterwards and then tried to duck even having an investigation into what happened that day. This from the same party that held a ludicrous number of hearings into the attack on Benghazi several years ago. They then have the gall to talk about "election security" when some of their own members were clearly on board with circumventing the will of the people in order to keep Trump in charge.
Make no mistake about it. Had the shoe been on the other foot, as outlined in my previous post, we'd have seen a response more similar to 9/11 that would have been bi-partisan in nature from the elected officials. I suspect that the actions by the authorities on the day would have been very different as well.
Of course I would. Wrong is wrong.
Is that supposed to be a 'Gotcha'? It doesn't matter who stormed the Capitol or any other national parliament, that is not the way to dispute an election. You are, of course, completely missing the point that Antifa and BLM did not storm the Capitol in 2017, nor anyone else, no matter how horrified they were at the idea of Trump as president.
Exactly, Trumps victory enabled Johnson, Bolsanaro, Orban to name just a few and he being in power was used by Russia, North Korea, Israel to drive their own initiatives.
Any observer of current affairs can see the influence the US still has on geopolitics whether that be for good or negative means.
I trust that all of the people playing down what happened on Jan 6th would feel the same way if some unholy mixture of AntiFa and BLM supporters had stormed the Capitol in an attempt to prevent Donald Trump's election from being certified in January 2017.
For sure, nobody smashed the windows of any of our government buildings or beat any of the Gardai outside to death. I just can't see something like that happening here right now. But the US political climate does have knock-on effects on the rest of the world. Trump losing the election would have been felt by the Tories in the UK, for instance.
maybe your right but I don’t buy into this was an attack on democracy worldwide.
it happened in the US carried out by Americans
I'm not sure the people saying 'it#s an attack on "our" democracy' are Irish.
Irish people getting upset at an attack on our democracy that day lol
Black Friday sales event? Lol.
You completely missed the nuance of my analogy
If you could point to one 'attempted murderer' in the myriad of footage available I would eat my own hat.
I've never seen a more overblown and over-exaggerated event in my life. There have been Black Friday sales more deadly than the Jan 6th 'Insurrection!'
Nope.
The sitting President instigated actions that led to the constitutional process of certifying the election being interrupted. And it is likely that this happened with sitting members of congress encouraging and guiding those actively breaking in to the capitol.
And the same sitting President at the time is the current favourite to President after the 2024 election. Republicans held 11 investigations in to the actions around events in Benghazi, they have zero business telling people to move on from this.
The people who went their have been have been arrested and plenty are going to end up in jail which we can all agree is correct.
It was obviously very bad what happened and yes Trump, and those who organised it and the rubes who were larping that day deserve punishment, but the hyperbole has been a little over the top.
Their is a reason bar outside the MSNBC echo chambers that this won't resonate with many is because the world and most certainly democracy did not end that day.
People have moved on for better or worse.
Do you think attempted murderes should be let off thier charges because they were unsuscessful in their mission?
Do you think that the insurrection was a stand alone incident, without any contributory factors and not been driven by any particular narrative?
Because that is what you are implying. That ist failed, therefore the people are losers, and it can be filed away as just one of those things.
Have you read Peril? Do you know the legal advice memo that they attempted to use on Mike Pence to get him to throw out the votes?
Have you really not joined the dots that the insurrection wasn't actually part of the plan? It was meant to be a show of strength, a way to pressurise any swaying GOP senator, like Pence, so row in behind Trump. But it clearly got out of hand. They got further, and some of them were far more violent, than they had planned for. And they also thought BLM or others would turn up in counter protest which would muddy the waters more.
It is obvious is you spend any time actually researching the events before, during and after the 6th what actually happened and how close the US really did come to their democracy being destoyed.
Also, you seem to be equating hyperbole to an insurrection. In your mind are both of them (if we play along with you that hyperbole is real) are similar? That you place the violence and insurrection in the same league as a few over excited commentators getting a bit carried away (again, I am, for the sake of argument, allowing that hyperbole is real in this case)
It was a terrible thing that happened, but the hyperbole since has been absurd.
I seen some people saying "democracy nearly died that day" ,,,their was approximately 0.000000000000000000001% chance of those **** losers who stormed the capital achieving their goals.
I don't think it matters much to anyone outside the bubble on both sides, whether that is a good or bad thing is a debate for another day but it is what it is.
Got you. I expect the mid terms will only make things worse, regardless of the result. Maybe a large terrorist incident is on the cards. But the 6th is almost over in the USA and all is calm.
It was an American documentary. RTE were just showing it late last night.
I'm not sure many American voters care all that much about a documentary on RTE, they're more concerned with domestic terrorists having another go at it.
I watched a Jan 6th INsurrection! documentary on RTE last night. On 4 seperate occasions claims were made that the event was analogous to 911...
And people wonder why some say the democrats will have a miserable mid term this year...
Not sure id even see it as a concession to sense, in that it’s still self serving after all - he sees himself as the chief reason there are vaccinations, thanks to his project Warp Speed (which was a good program in fairness), and has always wanted to soak up as much credit for that as possible.
The problem on the avid Trump supporters side is that it’s a bit too much doublethink to process… there’s no covid, it’s just a cold, it’s a trick, masks are an affront to freedom, Trumps vaccines to lower the virus risk are great. In fairness, it’s a particularly hard circle to square.
