Of course its their choice, nobody is disputing that. But just like every other choice in life, there are consequences.
Where is someone's inalienable right to partake in society coming from?
Can a prisoner stroll out this evening for a pint?
Can an unlicenced driver drive around unhindered?
Can a 14 year old child go into a supermarket and buy 20 cigarettes?
Can I go down to a members only golf club and demand to be let play a round of golf, even though I'm mot a member?
"The study shows that people who become infected with the Delta variant are less likely to pass the virus to their close contacts if they have already had a COVID-19 vaccine than if they haven’t1. But that protective effect is relatively small, and dwindles alarmingly at three months after the receipt of the second shot."
"Previous studies have found that people infected with Delta have roughly the same levels of viral genetic materials in their noses regardless of whether they’d previously been vaccinated"
"A person who was fully vaccinated and then had a ‘breakthrough’ Delta infection was almost twice as likely to pass on the virus as someone who was infected with Alpha"
So when your pass expires past 3 months will you then give up your ability to sit indoors with the people who don't spread covid at the same rate you now do since your protection from getting covid has basically go to the same level ?
It was over as far as Sweden was concerned summer 2020 but that did not work out that well. It was over as far as the U.K was concerned months ago but it`s not looking great there at the moment with around 900 deaths a week, even with their 28 day reporting rule.
As Mao Zedong said when asked about the impacts of the French Revolution, it`s too early to judge.
...and yes I know it has been claimed he was referring to France 1968 and not France 1789.
Can a bar refuse service to someone based on their medical history or can they request to see you have no medical conditions or would that be discrimination?
Can we ban people for any reason because there are other restriction in society?
Thats your argument? See how you aren't even arguing its about health or anything. You are just using the fact that there are some kinds of restrictions.
Should everything now be restricted and require a pass?
Should you be banned from everything unless we put you on statins incase you have a heart attack? Where do you want this go?
So no answer to any of the questions I put to you.
"The pandemic is not over just because people are bored"
Who's saying it should be over because people are bored? Such a juvenile argument.
It should be over because:
1. 92% of the adult population are vaccinated
2. The government has had the better part of two years to increase hospital capacity
3. The virus is not a threat to the vast majority of the population
Thanks. For me it makes sense. I’m in a position to do it and recently purchased property there and also i have a lot of family there.
plan B has been in operation for some months now especially with the threat of lockdown in this comical country.
That would be Article 40 of the Constitution. Your examples here are legally mandated or a set of rules by a private entity.
The UK are also dealing with a great deal of excess deaths from things other than Covid, which are a result of the closure of services etc.
The US has seen a massive increase in drug deaths, suicide attempts among teenagers, obesity, alcohol abuse, etc.
All things we will have to reckon with here.
Restrictions come with collateral damage, and a dull-minded, stubborn insistence that the only metric by which pandemic response should be judged is deaths related to the virus in question is fatuous, dangerous nonsense.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis
The vaccine certs are legally mandated, are they not?
You'll be missed......
A man who knows he knows nothing knows more than a man who thinks he knows everything.
Are you joking? You have a funny view of things if you think anyone needs to justify being able to participate in society. What year were you born?
The government doesn't have the right to stop people from trading with each other, and they're only able to do so now because of an "Emergency" which is meant to be equivalent to WWII but really anyone can see is not that bad.
It's of dubious constitutionality but no one is challenging it in the courts, most private citizens can't afford the legal fees.
Seatbelt laws or whatever don't mean all your actions are done only with the permission of an absolute government.
I know what was announced was full of confusion but how did you listen to what he said and came up with that conclusion?
No they are not if you understood that then you would see that they are using failte ireland and it's members to implement them so they can technically be ignored if you aren't a member of failte ireland.
That's why indoor go karting doesn't need them. Gyms don't need them etc
The government can't legally do it but a bar can effectively refuse service. Even based on dress codes so that's how they get away with it. It's just nobody can afford to challenge it.
Yes, they are due later today, it's taking a long time as our best civil servants are trying to decode the words Micheal Martin said on Tueday... Honestly we should be glad that they intend to do that by today
Well, they are regulations, which could change or disappear on Monday, but with no sanctions and no real check on compliance so as useful as writing an IOU on a wet teabag.
It's worded a little badly but he was referencing the Private Security Authority who regulate the issuing of licenses to door staff and perform spot checks at pubs and clubs to ensure door staff are licenced and displaying their PSA license. They come under the scope of the Dept of Justice so they could have their scope widened to include the checking of licensed premises in terms of covid cert compliance.
The government doesn't have the right to stop people from trading with each other
Sure about that?
You're really trying to say that there is nobody in this country with the finances to challenge it? Really?
So if someone could afford to challenge a bar on its dress code what would happen?
Thank God you're staying.
We would be lost without you...
I didn't make the argument but it seems to be the case that people think this has gone on for two years, therefore enough. They are done with it. Fair enough but at an epidemiological level what people think is more or less irrelevant. The pandemic will end when the pandemic ends. Nothing to argue about.
92% of adult population being vaccinated again doesn't matter if the hospital capacity is gone. UK has similar figures and there were studies done in July showing there were about 90% of people there have antibodies however they are hitting records cases again and their hospitals are filling up. It doesn't matter if they all have antibodies and are vaccinated. Reality shows they are in trouble again and the hospitals are filling up. The government having two years to increase hospital capacity is all well and good but if they didn't do it we are in the same situation. Makes the argument irrelevant. Point is no first world society is going to function very long without it's hospitals.The virus is a threat to everyone indirectly. It could get worse. It could get better. But again the point about hospitals. No hospitals means people suffering from other disease will not be treated. Nature will dictate the future. It doesn't matter what governments can or cannot sell to their people.
Ah thanks. Would ya stop, i don’t want to have to take out the hankies. The love and warmth from fellow posters is too much.
To check if the security staff are checking, or the pubs.
I can't imagine they'd be able to check in places that are just using a member of staff to do the checking surely.
One might expect a burst of enthusiasm on this and it will wane. Is there some form of sanction for a venue if people have not been checked apart from telling someone to leave?
non sequiturs . They aren't the same thing at all.
there is a difference between a prisoner who lost their rights due to a crime and a person not getting vaccinated.
the other scenarios are nonsensical in this context
unless that's a crime to refuse the vaccine and I missed that bill? Despite being reduced to the level of non-person , the government will still happily demand tax off the the 20year old non vaccinated. They want it both ways.
They can if the legislation is changed to add a PSA inspector in as a compliance officer
I think at worst the inspectors currently can report the premises and the Gardai can object to a licence renewal
How about the driving licence?
You have a right not to get one. Once you exercise that right, you are no longer permitted to drive.