Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings

Murph85 · 21-10-2021 11:01AM

Those living in fear of covid, can have their lockdown, let them at it. I dont see any one asking them to leave their homes if they dont have to work in a physical place of work...

growleaves · 21-10-2021 11:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052322#Comment_118052322

Contra the cult of micro-specialism, up until recently work from one branch of science was (theoretically) meant to be verifiable from other branches.

Epidemiology as a mystery cult which other scientists can't even begin to look at is just political smoke and mirrors, usually from people not in the sciences themselves.

Penfailed · 21-10-2021 11:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052071#Comment_118052071

He's certainly not literally running my life.

MOH · 21-10-2021 11:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052233#Comment_118052233

Cillian de Gascun said in July last year that we had an improved infrastructure in place that should allow us to avoid further nationwide lockdown since we'd be able to trace and isolate clusters, identify contacts and get them to restrict their movements.

Philip Nolan said in September last year that restrospective contact tracing was an academic exercise that they didn't have the time or resources for. The latter part is a lie - we had about a dozen cases a day just before we opened up, contact tracing centres were being closed because there was nothing for them to do. the first part is a lie - it gives you far more accurate data about how the virus is actually spreading, rather than the "villain of the week" we've had all along based on NPHET's circumstantial guesswork. And it makes what de Gascun said a lie - it's impossible to isolate clusters when you're only looking in one direction. It's like setting out to cut a diseased branch from a tree, starting halfway along a twig, and only going forward from there.

Ronan Glynn said in February this year that NPHET were "pushing for retrospective contact tracing since August" last year. Either he was lying or Philip Nolan is even more incompetent than he already appears given his statement was a month after that. Also the only mention I could see from a quick glance at the NPHET minutes from August was one meeting - with the HSE pushing for it and NPHET noting that they'd think about it.

It's ludicrous to suggest that these experts are beyond criticism when they've repeatedly lied and misled the public.

If a Michelin starred chef serves you a steaming pile of crap, you don't need to spend five years in master cookery school before you earn the right to complain about it.

charlie14 · 21-10-2021 11:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051824#Comment_118051824

I genuinely have yet to meet anyone who liked being in lockdown or who are looking forward to a return.

There may be a few in here who will back the government no matter what, but then that is the same with diehard party supporters on practically everything and the diehard supporters of the opposition who will criticise everything a government does regardless.

If there are some of those diehard supporters on here then at least we have balance with the posters that constantly predict dates for another lockdown and when that fails to materialise move on to another predicted date.

If there actually are some on here who like lockdowns, with all these predictions it looks as if some may be from the prediction corner where it would mean they could say "see I was right".

Red Silurian · 21-10-2021 11:13AM

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/1021/1255000-covid-guidelines/

The latest on live events

Allowing people to stand at live events could involve some limit on capacity, along with both ticketing and Covid-19 cert requirements.

Less ridiculous than before at least. No surprise that it's taking them this long to decode what Martin said on Tuesday

Parachutes · 21-10-2021 11:15AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052391#Comment_118052391

He will be when you won’t be able to leave 5km radius from your home shortly.

21-10-2021 11:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052233#Comment_118052233

There is way unfortunately. We don't investigate or test for Flu to near the same extent as Covid. It's also complicated by the fact that many deaths are from secondary infections and not attributed to Flu directly. A report from the UK a few years ago estimated the annual number of deaths to be about 10-25k per year. Adjusted for our population that's somewhere between 700-1800 deaths annually. So it's very plausible we miss quite a lot of them.

That's not attempting to downplay the burden of COVID as opposed to avoiding downplaying that of Flu.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1676118/

bokale · 21-10-2021 11:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052289#Comment_118052289

I guess masking up when moving around / using toilet could be still useful.

foxsake · 21-10-2021 11:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052446#Comment_118052446

As you state correctly - we don't also label deaths as flu deaths unless they die of actual flu.

the people I know who died "with covid" were terminally ill. they were on their way out.

contrast this with people who die of AIDS. nobody dies of AIDS it's usually an illness that they are unable to defend against due to a weakened immune system. yet nobody says a cold killed them, its common sense it was the major condition that contributed to their demise rather than the minor one.

The same happens with other major conditions.

The Dail Committee said previously this will become apparent when the coroner rules on cases but that can take years. So in the meantime our lives are turned upside down due to shoddy data but that's ok cos it'll be fixed later.

But don't worry , I know we are in a pandemic - a pandemic of the weak minded .

Penfailed · 21-10-2021 11:31AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052279#Comment_118052279

Just as it should be at this stage.

JRant · 21-10-2021 11:31AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051957#Comment_118051957

I've listened to him a bit over the past 2 years. He's very much against th undemocratic nature of NPHET and the governments willingness to hide behind them. He has also quite rightly highlighted the proportionality of this governments approach and the need for continually extending quite draconian laws.

Dempo1 · 21-10-2021 11:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052481#Comment_118052481

Yes , hard to argue against your point in fairness 😏

topper75 · 21-10-2021 11:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052303#Comment_118052303

Excellent questions but not being asked by any media writers or commentators. It appears that they have been bought off or something.

We set out seeking herd immunity. All I see is herd mentality.

Penfailed · 21-10-2021 11:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052427#Comment_118052427

Others have predicted lockdowns in January and one even thought there would be one as soon as mid-November. You reckon it'll be 'shortly' whatever that means. I'll not be restricted to 5km for a couple of reasons. The first reason is that I don't think it'll happen. The second is that I have a letter from my employer that allows me to travel anywhere.

topper75 · 21-10-2021 11:57AM

A lockdown would be politically catastrophic - a de facto plain admission that the vaccine rollout was a failed entity, a waste of time and money.

That can't happen.

Also they don't have the funds for it. So I also am betting against.

brickster69 · 21-10-2021 11:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052303#Comment_118052303

They have just come round to the fact that vaccines are not enough when the only plan has been vaccines and restrictions all along. So looks like plan B is ease restrictions, hope for the best and blame the public, bar owners and unvaxed if hospitals get over run and restrictions are introduced again.

is_that_so · 21-10-2021 11:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052481#Comment_118052481

There's nothing undemocratic about the creation of a NPHET, it's an authority the MOH has just as they can dissolve it. Their purpose is to advise , not make laws. The last government took what NPHET said with a pinch of salt and having an MD as Taoiseach was no bad thing. This one has mostly fallen over itself to follow what they say to the letter.

He's also an outlier in the Dail and unless he can get the militantly pro-restriction TDs in opposition to back him he's wasting his breath. Oh and the Dail is where they've enacted these dreadful laws anyway.

JRant · 21-10-2021 11:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052528#Comment_118052528

Take the press conference the other day. The CMO mentioned he wasn't checked going through Dublin airport and the reporter was fawning over him. Oh my, did they not recognize you? School yard stuff. Yet these are the main national media reporters treating him like some omnipotent being.

21-10-2021 12:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052471#Comment_118052471

That's not what I said. Please don't twist my words. I was referring to secondary bacterial infections such as pneumonia brought on by the initial infection. These are not always attributed correctly to Flu so the true burden is often underestimated.

I'll repeat. Not downplaying Covid. Just avoiding downplaying Flu.

JRant · 21-10-2021 12:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052591#Comment_118052591

The nature of NPHET and how they go about their business is the problem. They are acting as defacto policy makers. Look at the push for cert compliance over the coming weekend and it is being 100% being driven by NPHET.

Thanks for letting me know where the laws were enacted. Never would have guessed it.

is_that_so · 21-10-2021 12:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052630#Comment_118052630

Well, you seem to imagine that NPHET are making the laws. They are not, that's a completely compliant Dail. Yeah pretty sure I said they had rolled over on every recommendation they make.

JRant · 21-10-2021 12:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052645#Comment_118052645

Again, you seem to be imagining something I didn't say. I never said they make the laws. I said they are acting as defacto policy makers and issuing dictacts to the current government who are happy to hide behind them.

Red Silurian · 21-10-2021 12:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052587#Comment_118052587

I'd agree with this on both points but I'd also add 2 points, 1. I don't think that the public will buy in as they have in previous lockdowns and 2. I'd question if a lockdown would even reduce our case numbers with the delta variant

is_that_so · 21-10-2021 12:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052661#Comment_118052661

Then it is the politicians who are to blame. Whatever feelings you might have about FG they did not respond in such a manner last year. They repeatedly said no to MHQ and there were occasions when NPHET had to claim they were in step with government when the government went a different way.

There are certainly failings of NPHET we can point at. Their communication has been condescending, curt, muddled and highly defensive at times. We can also seriously question some of the modelling that they've used to form decisions and even their resistance to certain types of tools but they were not in the Dail to create these laws.

Parachutes · 21-10-2021 12:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052566#Comment_118052566

I’m alright jack.

DarkJager21 · 21-10-2021 12:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052742#Comment_118052742

And isn't he dead right to have that attitude now? The "all in this together" nonsense is dead and gone, majority of us have been vaccinated so we've done our part.