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Fine Gael Demographic

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  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You're bringing nothing to the table and looking for a dispute.

    I'm not saying they are getting too much, I'm saying two young professionals who work full time and put a lot of time and effort to get to that point don't have much more than someone who had 3 kids and applied for the council house and the dole and didn't make any effort to gain employable skills therefore something has gone wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,608 ✭✭✭quokula


    Even if you do believe FG and FF are identical, which they aren't, that doesn't just leave SF. There are parties like Labour, the Social Democrats and the Greens who all have serious policy platforms, who's main sin is that they've actually been in government at one time or another and had to contend with reality rather than fantasy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭LeeroyJ.


    They have been junior coalition partners, which really limits how much they can deliver on. The difference with Sinn Féin is that they actually have a realistic chance to lead a left wing government and deliver on some of their core policies. Voting Sinn Féin is someone's best chance at achieving a government not led by FF or FG. Everyone is free to vote for whatever interest they so chose, but I will be voting Sinn Féin not because it's in my own interest (it's probably not) but because I personally think it's in the best interest of our society.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You don't vote for those at present in Ireland if you want change next time out. Sinn Fein will gain a lot of votes next time and likely more than they did last time so FF and FG will have to band together again so in effect for the next few years they are one and the same and they are not looking like the best option for a very large percentage of the working population.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,033 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I was a Labour voter in my youth, mainly cos my family were always champagne socialists, trade union high-ups, upper mid public servants and so on and I adored Ruairí Quinn too.

    But now I'm in my 40s I'm firmly a Coveney camp Fine Gaeler. I'm a self employed professional, have some property and other assets, kids midway thru education and so on.

    I vote for Fine Gael because they are pro-enterprise, pro economic expansion to lift all boats, pro the rewarding of effort, pro the addition of wealth to raise living standards and so on.

    They will protect my created gains more than any other party by current policy and I concur with their general social policy also, liberal personal freedom that does not detract from others.

    I would normally still throw Labour a preference,but not while Kelly is leader, he is moron.

    And I will work with anyone to use my efforts and influence to keep the malignant Sinn Féin ever from entering Govt in the 26 counties.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Trouble is it is very unlikely that there will be a government that does not involve at least one of FF/FG/SF, so one way or another lower preferences will land on one of them.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I understand where you are coming from. In the future I will likely vote the same way. They have protected the assets and wealth of their voter base to the point that they have excluded too great a percentage of the population and now they opened the door to SF who will spend recklessly and raise taxes. Sinn Fein have a good idea now what their support is and how many candidates to run to maximise their seats and FG haven't done enough to reverse it in my opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,632 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    They'll certainly get a higher preference than "the root cause" FF or "magic money trees" SF.

    And the "ten years to fix it" claim is disingenous at best. We didn't exit the bailout until December 2013. In 2015, unemployment levels were still above 10%. There was very little scope for any improvements in the housing situation for much of the first half of FG's decade in power.

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  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I didn't really see much of a plan being implemented by them at any point. I see many plans and promises but nothing tangible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,159 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Yeah personally I am no more happy with SF than I am with FG. Their stated positions of removing the property tax, removing carbon tax and opposing water charges reeks of populism. Also their internal politics are opaque to a troubling degree, they have a massive bullying problem and their leadership elections have all the authenticity of a Russian federal election. FF are an afterthought. They only ever stood for power and now I don't even know or care what they are. They will always be the party that recklessly destroyed the economy.

    My vote would go to one of the smaller parties. My only hope is that they form a government with SF that actually builds public housing again (because FF/FG most certainly won't) and the smaller parties can get some of the more populist SF proposals removed as part of the coalition negotiations.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    There are already supports for first time buyers so I don't see how cutting out the banks is a solution to anything other than maybe this organisation would start giving 100% loans to people who probably couldn't afford the repayments. If you think that would end well then you're delusional.

    As others have pointed out we need to build communities, apartments to a variety of sizes properly managed and improve our public transport services. All these will take longer than the duration of a single Dáil and maybe even two. One of the main obstacles will as always be Irish NIMBYism.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What supports? Help to buy? That is not working well in Dublin because of the qualifying criteria. It would be very useful in the midlands but there are not many jobs around there. It is not really a great scheme. Remove the qualifying criteria and the limited supply of properties in Dublin will just get more expensive so a whole new scheme is needed.

    Never said 100% loans. Never said to give mortgages to people who couldn't afford that amount.

    Never said there didn't need to be other criteria on what properties are to be bought. It could be used to direct people towards the properties that are better for the country. Many ways to play that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,033 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No you're right, they haven't done enough. And waiting for the run up to a 2025 election is a mistake, because we've had a few close calls already and an election could be triggered really any month between now and then.

    Its time for FG to be FG, to tackle SF on those major SF sticking points:

    • Funding the exchequer and running a responsible budgetary position
    • Maintaining social cohesion (money grabs, adverse business environment, FDI etc)
    • Tackling the Unions and Professions to deliver on policies, have they got the stomach? How far will they push?
    • Murky and malign party influences, democratic deficit at local level
    • Addressing the ambiguity around socialism/marxism, the constitutional question, Euroscepticism etc


  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    All Sinn Fein have to do is not really engage. That is a not how they will win.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    Right, so we need a new scheme that will make it easier for first time buyers but won't push up prices, like set up some new state run/financed 'organisation'? Good luck with that.

    What we need in Dublin is more homes in sustainable communities well planned and managed. Supply needs to increase but until that happens little will change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    It might just be me but I find it very hard to take this post at face value. It reads like a pamphlet YFG would hand out on a college campus.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You must be some craic to be around. Sarcasm and criticism but not contributing anything. How long does it take for people to stop returning your calls?:)



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    I'm no FF voter, but I think putting the blame for recklessly destroying the economy is giving them too much credit. Much like FG they don't actually impose any power or strategy on the economy, the policy of both is just leave it up to the market and take the credit if things go well and hide if they don't.

    I'm not saying a very interfering government would work in Ireland, as a small island we may just always ultimately be blown by winds outside of our control. But if you ever got that familiar feeling watching the news - 'how did this idiot ever get elected?!' - you are more than likely correct in your initial assessment. A bunch of chancing gombeens getting away with it for as long as possible.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I definitely don't think FG are a bunch of chancing gombeens. Their voter base are those that have accumulated wealth and their ministers are clever people.

    They don't align with my interests right now though on housing and childcare.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    No, because it sounds like lots of things FG claim are their policies when they can get away with it unchallenged like on pamphlets or at their Ard Fheis that don't actually reflect what they have done with 10 years in government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,159 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    I'm not sure how a bunch of PD type talking points are going to help against SF. I'm actually kind of impressed that you managed to come up with an entire wishlist of topics that somehow included "Addressing the ambiguity around socialism/marxism" and entirely ignored housing.


    Banging on about these kind of topics and mentioning the IRA every chance they get is exactly the sort of stupidity that I fully expect FF/FG to engage in come the next election. The people wavering about voting for SF do not care about those topics. They really don't. As I saw some young person say on twitter last year "At this stage I don't care if Sinn Fen were responsible for The Black Death as long as they build some houses". The people who really care about those other economically-right and culture war topics are already never going to vote for SF. By constantly bringing them up all FF and FG do is alienate potential voters while gaining nobody new.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    This is the great sin of FF & FG, and indeed the great legacy post-war parties of all stripes in Europe since the late 80s. They all more or less (even the grand old Social Democratic parties in Germany) bought into Thatcherism and neoliberalism and the marketization of all aspects of life. All is in the domain of the market, they could sit back and turn to pollsters and professional narrative spinners to keep them in power and the role of the state is to clean up the little messes the market left behind and all will be well. It turns out the little spillages that the market-led philosophy leaves behind are actually more like oil slicks with far-reaching social and economic consequences, but the legacy parties are loathe to admit they have got it wrong and can't find it within themselves to turn the ship around. Opposition are derided as 'populist' (even when they're not) whereas they've been daydreaming and have shut off their brains for the best part of three decades.

    FF used to be a national movement of great consequence, now they are a social club of auctioneers and teachers on a career break with pretensions of meaning something.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You probably should believe it in that case as they poster stated those are his reasons for voting for FG because that is what he sees them doing for him. I agree with his points in that they are the party that most protects his particular set of circumstances. He has explained why he votes FG, which is useful and one of the main points of the thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    This may seem abstract but you don't promote enterprise by forcing everyone under 40 who might start up a business to spend 50 or 60% of their income renting a property to live in.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There are quite a few grants available mainly through Enterprise Ireland for startup companies which has had increased funding. There are a few income tax refund/reduction schemes. Yes FG are pro enterprise. Have a look around. For the majority of people, who are not entrepreneurs, they are dropping the ball on housing and childcare which as the two biggest expenses a young family typically face in Dublin.

    You are totally going off track so at this point I'll wish you well as you are not contributing anything useful to the discussion. You might have better luck finding an argument on twitter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I remember asking my mother (pensioner, over 65, property owner) why she votes Fine Gael. She couldn't really explain why, something nebulous about stability was her best answer. A hell of a lot of people don't live stable lives under FG values and policies so the 'stability' sell works for pensioners or those close to the finish line of retirement but to very few other people. This breaks the brain of FG pollsters and strategists (and they are the party that does policy by focus group above all other on the ticket).



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,362 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    you re not fg's target market at all, they re market is primarily with current asset owners, which is more so older generations, but not entirely, but i am finding it interesting to see some older life long fg voters move away from them. pay close attention to all parties and politicians, and vote accordingly, best of luck to you and your partner



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    More young people are talking about the difficulties they face and their older family members are hearing this. They might be throwing a vote to SF as their daughter / granddaughter is telling them it might help them afford a house. My mother has been a staunch FF voter because it was that way in the family and a FF councilor did a favor for someone long ago and she remembers that. Basically he made a phone call to see if someone in the family could get onto a FAS course and it got him votes for the next 10 years... which is how it works down the country.

    She could be convinced towards SF which would have been unthinkable a couple of years ago as she sees stories on the news almost daily about the housing crisis in Dublin and that FG are not getting it done while throwing a fiver into the pension which is just not enough to guarantee to keep her on side.

    Most people have moved on from the troubles who never lived in the north, we do not care about what was done or not done then. FF and FG engaged in a civil war once upon a time. It doesn't come up every election.

    I will vote for the party that I think is most likely to build some damn affordable houses. Everything else is just noise to me until that is done.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,033 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    You may believe every word Sir.

    Those were not the views of my youth and indeed Labour Youth were my interest in College, but I'm a FG voter now, though not a member in any sense.



This discussion has been closed.
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