Will racism ever end?

I agree the clubs and uefa fifa can do so much more but they are corrupt or driven by greed.

Which is why the taking of the knee is such an empty gesture. Since they're driven by greed, the organisations involved should be hit where it hurts, with a boycott of subscriptions, or match tickets, with the clear message of an expectation for change to occur.

However, I doubt there would be much actual support from fans/supporters, and it would just fizzle. Easier to make empty gestures that lead nowhere.

But knowing that and having to operate within that structure what can the players do?

Players? Boycott teams that don't speak out against the behavior of their fans, and who won't police their behavior somewhat... but again, players will look to the money earned as opposed to committing themselves to changing anything. The players are enabling the teams, and the organisations to continue as they've always done... which is to ignore what's goes on in the stands, except when it costs them money, or someone dies (and even then, things revert to what they were before after a short amount of time)

Do you believe in non violent protest as means to an end?

Dunno where that came from. Weren't my suggestions non-violent?

Yes, I do.. although sometimes action speaks louder than words, and those actions show a commitment that peaceful protest often doesn't represent.

I suppose the difference between us, is that I like to see a reasonable chance of a positive outcome being produced from such protests. The taking of the knee goes nowhere, because it doesn't do anything or send any definite message to those who engage in racism. The taking of the knee appeals to those who aren't racist... and so, it's a wasted effort (although there's no actual effort involved, which is part of the problem). I'd prefer to see some initiatives that directly sought to deal with actual racists..

I never understand this need of yours to misrepresent what was said by posters throughout a thread.

"Basically" 🙄

There's having fun, and then.... there's sly digs. You should know the difference, and I suspect you do. However, you'll still go with the sly dig.

It isn't the Premier league clubs fans that are guilty of much racism inside the grounds. Pl grounds are very well policed and bans are handed out for racism and other anti social behaviour already.

haha... seriously? There's craptons of racist behavior at most of the premier league games.. within the fan areas. Never mind what happens directly outside the stadiums after certain games.

So if PL clubs aren't the main issue with racism how would their players boycotting the games of the clubs that pay them help.

Because it sends the same message that the other leagues/teams will understand, and perhaps provide some momentum to a movement within the soccer community.

Are they wrong to use their media presence to draw attention to such social issues. It takes less than 30 seconds at the start of a game and it highlights an issue of concern to them. All footballers are not forced to do this they can choose to participate or not. So what really is the issue?

You've just stepped backwards ignoring/dismissing what I'd said about taking the knee... and no, I'm not going to follow you there. I'm not terribly surprised though.. since you'd prefer to focus entirely on taking the knee, as opposed to a more general conversation about racism.

It is obviously drawing attention because neither you or I are big posters in the soccer forum but yet here we are talking about it.

The thread title is "Will racism ever end". Not "will racism end in soccer". So, we're talking about it because the thread is about racism. In any case, the point I made earlier about the taking of the knee still remain valid... the only people who care, are the people who already watch soccer... anyone else will give ten seconds of their attention, and move back to looking at whatever gossip is elsewhere.

As for the soccer forum, I have no interest in discussing soccer with people on the internet. If we were in a pub, I might be interested, although probably I wouldn't.. because I just like to watch the games. Oddly enough, I know quite a few people similar to myself who enjoy the games and the competition, without everything else that comes with it. Oh... and I'm already interested in discussing racism, because I'm interested in social issues.. and have been discussing racism long before BLM or anything associated with it, came along.

Wait for the deflection... 😂

Ah klaz so no other posters have attempted sly digs or even direct insults at me in this thread. 🤣

That's hardly the point... it's your (and bubblypop's) dig that was noted. Forget it. I know you won't own up to it, and recognise that it was inappropriate when someone was answering your questions properly.

Just like I can't stop the other posters who post nonsense and childish attempts at insults directed at me. I can ignore them and carry on. Insult me enough and you get no right of reply from me.

I learned on the Multiculturalism thread where the baiting comes from... and it tends to be from the posters who make the digs, and the claim to be the victim.

Let's move on, shall we? @[Deleted User] can handle his own problems, and while I said my initial piece, I have no intention of getting sidetracked away from the discussion on racism.

I don't agree the Premier league is this hotbed of racism you claim inside the grounds. Have you any links to incidents of note this season.

Nope. Oh, I could get some articles, but I doubt it will change your mind any. You see, I would previously have done so, but the way you've been tackling posts just removes any desire for me to do any legwork for you.

Outside the ground that's a policing matter and I agree the UK police could do much more in dealing with racist incidents. Not even just specifically at football matches but in general.

I would say that football organisations, and the clubs themselves have a responsibility for what/how their fans behave under the name of those teams (wearing the colours, shouting the slogans, etc) while engaging in such activities. As long as they don't take responsibility for it, little will change, because the Police are, in many ways, limited/restricted in what they can do to influence people's minds/beliefs. Oh, they can enforce the laws.. but that's not the problem with racism.. the inability to change perceptions is.

And I'm going to leave the discussion on soccer, or taking the knee, there. This was discussed to death on the other thread, and I can easily see the same crap coming up again, with the same manner of dismissive/nasty posting styles.

If you want to shift back to racism in general, I'm fine with continuing the discussion. Otherwise, I'll leave it to others to discuss BLM/Soccer/etc.

didn't bring BLM to this discussion. So don't try blaming that on me.

Look back... I didn't blame that on you.

I have said I don't really think the taking the knee goes far enough but I don't agree with booing an anti racism gesture either. Because as I said there are actual racists booing the knee gesture and support of that booing ends up as tacit support for the people booing it for racist reasons.

And yet, you refuse the connection between BLM and the taking of the knee... Your logic doesn't extend beyond your application of it to others posts. You should consider applying it to your own statements. In any case, I didn't say anything about the booing on this thread, nor did I engage with you about it.

What exactly do you want to discuss about racism in general. We agree it's bad.

What can be done about it, and whether the current efforts are counter productive? I'd be interested in seeing your perception of anti-racism activists/advocates who push their views in a manner that tends to embrace bigotry and racism, while preaching against it. I'd be interested in your views on the double standards being applied, where standards are applied to others, but rarely are those same standards applied to the advocates/activists themselves. Also, the double standards with African Americans, where their own racism towards Asians and Hispanics is ignored, so that people can focus on the racism that is collectively assigned to White people.

But you dont think there is anything that can be done. You don't believe people can change so what is there to discuss exactly.

Once again, you're putting words in my mouth and disregarding what I've said previously. I said its a human condition, but we also have laws and social conditioning to minimize/reduce the expression of racism in society. I just don't believe it will ever be removed entirely. I wonder if you really read what people write, or simply scan their posts looking for something to confirm your own beliefs, or find something to argue against. And no, that's not a dig. It's an observation because you've done this multiple times on this thread alone.

Why do you care about my opinion on anti racism activists / advocates.

Good God man, do you even remember your own posts?

I even quoted it in bold before posting my own input.

Your posts seem very antagonistic towards me. You don't know me so why you have taken a dislike to me is strange to me. And no that's not a dig thats just my observation.

Robbie, your posts on the last two pages have supplied plenty of reasons for me to be frustrated with your style of deflections.

I'm done. Look, I'll make it easier on both of us, and just ignore you. No need to continue this frustrating discussion that leads nowhere.