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Will racism ever end?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    Ah klaz so no other posters have attempted sly digs or even direct insults at me in this thread. 🤣

    What's good for the goose is good for the gander and my post is humor at many of the replued in this thread just because you don't like the joke. You can't really stop me posting it.

    Just like I can't stop the other posters who post nonsense and childish attempts at insults directed at me. I can ignore them and carry on. Insult me enough and you get no right of reply from me.

    I won't be caught rising to that sort of bait again.


    I don't agree the Premier league is this hotbed of racism you claim inside the grounds. Have you any links to incidents of note this season.

    Anytime i have attended games i have not witnessed any obvious racism. So I do think with all their camera tech tyke big clubs in England are doing an OK job of policing it inside the ground.


    Outside the ground that's a policing matter and I agree the UK police could do much more in dealing with racist incidents. Not even just specifically at football matches but in general.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    There's one of those sly digs. What does this comment add exactly klaz?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,335 ✭✭✭✭ Rothko


    Don't play dumb. You know right well what you were doing. Anyway, all you're doing is making yourself look bad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ the dunne


    You did. You said that anyone who agrees with booing of the knee is supporting racism.

    I can't stop anyone racially abusing someone. I can educate people (who will listen) about how racism is abhorrent. I have done in the past, will do in the future.

    I don't claim to be able to stop the OP's wife or anyone else being racially abused. I can't be responsible for other people's behaviour.

    So I ask again Robbie, what do you suggest is the best way to stop the OP's wife being racially abused?

    You asked me a question as to how I combat racism, I answered. What do you do, considering you think education isn't a valid answer?

    Post edited by the dunne on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ the dunne


    Shame on you for even insinuating that's what was said. Such an ugly dishonest post.

    When you need to resort to such vile tactics, perhaps you should step away from the keyboard.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    Haha your being really silly now dunne.

    My sly dig comment was in direct response to klaz for having an off comment attempt at insulting me right after he made the sly dig comment to me.

    You have also tried the personal insults at me many times yourself. So it's funny you are now taking exception. I mean even your self awareness comment is an attempt to deflect rather than deal with racism issues of this thread.


    And 🤣🤣🤣


    I just checked self awareness there on the all Google. And I'm not sure it means what you think it means either.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness

    So please explain your self awareness comment to me?


    Actually don't i don't need another waffly deflection post.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,335 ✭✭✭✭ Rothko


    It's disgusting behaviour and the sheer irony of posters like that trying to appear holier than thou is incredible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭ nj27


    Once we're finished with racism towards blacks I'm sure we'll jump right on to racism towards whites like Columbo figuring out the final clue.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    You agreed that some of the people booing the knee are doing it for racist reasons.

    So if you are supporting booing the knee you are tacitly supporting those people who boo the knee for racist reasons. That is a fact of that support.

    I dont make that true it is undeniable fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ the dunne


    Jesus, your incoherent post about me rambling is the definition of not being self aware.

    It's about how you hold people to standards you don't live up to and are unaware that you are making yourself look foolish.

    I'm not taking exception to anything you say, but I admit it is tiresome that you refuse to answer questions that you expect others to respond to.

    And despite me answering every direct question, you accuse me of deflection....

    Check that on the "all Google" again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    Yeah I agree klaz using the sly dig comment and then straight away insulting me is exactly as you said.

    At least I can rely on your support rothko.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    I don't expect you to answer. I don't care if you answer. I ask a question it gets answered or it doesn't get answered. I still go sleep at night just the same.


    As for the all Google 🤔.

    I'm typing on a phone and it auto corrected aul to all.

    There was me thinking being a grammar nazi wasnt allowed on after hours. Tut tut. Was that another attempt at a sly dig by you?

    Ps: that question mark doesn't mean I want your answer it's a rethorical question.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    Ah klaz so no other posters have attempted sly digs or even direct insults at me in this thread. 🤣

    That's hardly the point... it's your (and bubblypop's) dig that was noted. Forget it. I know you won't own up to it, and recognise that it was inappropriate when someone was answering your questions properly.

    Just like I can't stop the other posters who post nonsense and childish attempts at insults directed at me. I can ignore them and carry on. Insult me enough and you get no right of reply from me.

    I learned on the Multiculturalism thread where the baiting comes from... and it tends to be from the posters who make the digs, and the claim to be the victim.

    Let's move on, shall we? @the dunne can handle his own problems, and while I said my initial piece, I have no intention of getting sidetracked away from the discussion on racism.

    I don't agree the Premier league is this hotbed of racism you claim inside the grounds. Have you any links to incidents of note this season.

    Nope. Oh, I could get some articles, but I doubt it will change your mind any. You see, I would previously have done so, but the way you've been tackling posts just removes any desire for me to do any legwork for you.

    Outside the ground that's a policing matter and I agree the UK police could do much more in dealing with racist incidents. Not even just specifically at football matches but in general.

    I would say that football organisations, and the clubs themselves have a responsibility for what/how their fans behave under the name of those teams (wearing the colours, shouting the slogans, etc) while engaging in such activities. As long as they don't take responsibility for it, little will change, because the Police are, in many ways, limited/restricted in what they can do to influence people's minds/beliefs. Oh, they can enforce the laws.. but that's not the problem with racism.. the inability to change perceptions is.

    And I'm going to leave the discussion on soccer, or taking the knee, there. This was discussed to death on the other thread, and I can easily see the same crap coming up again, with the same manner of dismissive/nasty posting styles.

    If you want to shift back to racism in general, I'm fine with continuing the discussion. Otherwise, I'll leave it to others to discuss BLM/Soccer/etc.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    I didn't bring BLM to this discussion. So don't try blaming that on me.

    I have said I don't really think the taking the knee goes far enough but I don't agree with booing an anti racism gesture either. Because as I said there are actual racists booing the knee gesture and support of that booing ends up as tacit support for the people booing it for racist reasons.

    What exactly do you want to discuss about racism in general. We agree it's bad.

    But you dont think there is anything that can be done. You don't believe people can change so what is there to discuss exactly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    Implement legislation making racist hate speech illegal. At least that way the ops wife would have some recourse to report the incident to the Garda.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ the dunne


    Oh that's a great idea. How would you judge hate speech? Which words would you make illegal? Would it apply across all races? What defines hate? Would it be illegal to say the words or to offend people? What if identical words were said to two different people and only one took offense? Is it problematic to make a subjective term like "hate" illegal? Especially when it comes to speech? Should context be key? If that's the case, how can you police it? Is it open to massive misuse and used to simply be suppression of speech that is unpopular?

    What should be the punishment for calling someone a *insert colour* bastard? Should it be punished more severely than calling someone a bald bastard? If calling a someone a *insert colour* bastard is hate speech, is calling someone a bald bastard also hate speech? Does that mean that person "hates" bald people? Is it ok to hate something and just not speak about it? Can you speak about stuff you hate in private? Do you need to get consent to put forward an opinion that could possibly be deemed as hateful on the off chance the listener is offended?


    Absolutely great idea chief.

    Id have thought your solution was completely unworkable, but as soon as you answer these questions, I think we are on to a winner.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    Why do you care about my opinion on anti racism activists / advocates.

    I can guarantee you this much about my opinion on them I know less about them and read even less of them or by them than most of the people who post on boards disparaging them.

    So really to quickly sum up my opinion on them would be to say I don't know them or care much at all about them. You will notice I never seem to post anything by or about these people.

    Again I don't live in America and don't consume huge amounts of American media. So my focus on racism is more focused on its impacts on my family and then more generally on this country and our closest neighbour (whose media I consume in greater content than of the Americans) .

    I think all racism is bad wrong and stupid. No matter the colour of the skin perpetuating that hatred.

    And most of the racism perpetuated on my family and in this country is by the native population. So that takes my primary focus. But not once have I ever said racism can only done by white people. That would be a stupid thing to say.

    Your posts seem very antagonistic towards me. You don't know me so why you have taken a dislike to me is strange to me. And no that's not a dig thats just my observation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    Oh your right because I haven't formally drafted the legislation and had it approved by the attorney General it's completly unworkable.

    I'm not going through all the work of thinking this fully through as if it was to implemented as legislation for you to go at the end and what about people with funny walks. You havent thought about people with funny walks. Ah see I told you it's completly unworkable.


    Legislation is not a complete panacea but it can go some way to reducing what is currently not prosecutable under our laws.

    Or you know maybe I should just answer.

    Well in that case I may as well go and racially abuse someone as I drive by them eh "chief".



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    Why do you care about my opinion on anti racism activists / advocates.

    Good God man, do you even remember your own posts?

    What exactly do you want to discuss about racism in general. We agree it's bad.

    I even quoted it in bold before posting my own input.

    Your posts seem very antagonistic towards me. You don't know me so why you have taken a dislike to me is strange to me. And no that's not a dig thats just my observation.

    Robbie, your posts on the last two pages have supplied plenty of reasons for me to be frustrated with your style of deflections.

    I'm done. Look, I'll make it easier on both of us, and just ignore you. No need to continue this frustrating discussion that leads nowhere.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    Do you think what happened to the ops wife should be punishable under irish law?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ the dunne


    Fair question. I'd have to be honest and say, based on the information in the OP, then no. The OP is not specific (and understandably so) in what racist language was used so it's impossible to say. Is it right? No. Acceptable? No? Illegal? Also no.

    Do you think racist language should be punishable by Irish law, bearing in mind the fact that not everyone finds the same language racist?

    Also if someone refers to someone in their company as a racist slur, but a third party of the same ethnicity who happens to be in the vicinity and overhears, and is offended by the slur, is that hate speech?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,623 ✭✭✭ RobbieTheRobber


    You see right there is the key difference you are ok for innocent women to be racially abused with no recompense as they walk down the street and I am not.

    Yes I think racist abuse should be punishable under Irish law.

    I happy for the intent to form a part of the justification in determining whether something is deserving of prosecution or not. So no two people using racist language with no intent to abuse another should not be a crime.

    As we agreed earlier in the thread context is key.

    But neither you or I are qualified to discuss the details or have presented any evidence we are qualified to determine the suitability for something to become legislation. So let's not pretend we are.

    I would like to see if it is possible and workable and you don't want legislation to protect people like the OP's wife from abuse.



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