Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings

aziz · 04-07-2021 08:20PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

He addressed the issue a few days ago and I am happy to take him on good faith. .

Your easily fooled

04-07-2021 08:27PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

He addressed the issue a few days ago and I am happy to take him on good faith.

He did.

He began by saying alcohol had no part to play in the decision making process, then spent 4 additional minutes explaining the reasons why alcohol was damaging to the process of containing the virus. :rolleyes:

Of course alcohol access plays a role. Pubs are nuclei of ethanol consumption -- and they've been closed for the best part of 15 months. Other indoor zones remain accessible, but pubs do not.

The idea that it's got nothing to do with alcohol is absurd.

Deeper Blue · 04-07-2021 08:29PM

Holohan has been anti-alcohol for his entire career in the public eye.

The fact that people are trying to argue this is genuinely hilarious.

aziz · 04-07-2021 08:30PM

Yeah,he was hardly going to say that drink and pubs are evil and he’s going to do his best to keep them closed

Beechwoodspark · 04-07-2021 08:30PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He did.

He began by saying alcohol had no part to play in the decision making process, then spent 4 additional minutes explaining the reasons why alcohol was damaging to the process of containing the virus. :rolleyes:

Of course alcohol access plays a role. Pubs are nuclei of ethanol consumption -- and they've been closed for the best part of 15 months. Other indoor zones remain accessible, but pubs do not.

The idea that it's got nothing to do with alcohol is absurd.

The “Covid loves to party “ line...

ie to break it down, covid easily spreads

in warm humid enclosed settings

with poor ventilation

Lots of common surfaces and ppl handing glasses to each other and money changing hands

- such as pubs and bars -

especially when the punters are NOT observing distancing

Even more so if ppl have consumed alcohol (in a bar in ireland it’s pretty likely come on) are wasted and falling all over themselves and each other bellowing and singing etc

Now, Regardless of TH personal views on alcohol,

It’s kinda true though?

Pubs would be almost perfect spreading locations for this virus.

04-07-2021 08:40PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The “Covid loves to party “ line...

ie to break it down, covid easily spreads

in warm humid enclosed settings

with poor ventilation

Lots of common surfaces and ppl handing glasses to each other and money changing hands

- such as pubs and bars -

especially when the punters are NOT observing distancing

Even more so if ppl have consumed alcohol (in a bar in ireland it’s pretty likely come on) are wasted and falling all over themselves and each other bellowing and singing etc

Now, Regardless of TH personal views on alcohol,

It’s kinda true though?

Pubs would be almost perfect spreading locations for this virus.

True -- and there also locations that Tony Holohan has a personal aversion to.

And when you dislike a place, you are less likely to be sympathetic to it if you don't visit these places yourself.

niallo27 · 04-07-2021 08:41PM

Loves to party but hates schools.

04-07-2021 08:43PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The “Covid loves to party “ line...

ie to break it down, covid easily spreads

in warm humid enclosed settings

with poor ventilation - such as pubs and bars -

especially when the punters are NOT observing distancing

Even more so if ppl have consumed alcohol (in a bar in ireland it’s pretty likely come on) are wasted and falling all over themselves and each other bellowing and singing etc

Now, regardless of TH personal views on alcohol,

It’s kinda true though?

Pubs would be almost perfect spreading locations for this virus.

Right but what about seated service. Have had a few days away here since hotels reopened, tables were well spread out, small groups sitting together, some having bar food, others a few drinks. It wasn’t the same as before but was still really nice. At some point people have to be trusted surely. Place was well ventilated too.

aziz · 04-07-2021 08:44PM

Pubs are one thing but for the love of god, open the restaurants
I be happy just to be able to sit in Macdonald’s

lawred2 · 04-07-2021 08:45PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The “Covid loves to party “ line...

ie to break it down, covid easily spreads

in warm humid enclosed settings

with poor ventilation

Lots of common surfaces and ppl handing glasses to each other and money changing hands

- such as pubs and bars -

especially when the punters are NOT observing distancing

Even more so if ppl have consumed alcohol (in a bar in ireland it’s pretty likely come on) are wasted and falling all over themselves and each other bellowing and singing etc

Now, Regardless of TH personal views on alcohol,

It’s kinda true though?

Pubs would be almost perfect spreading locations for this virus.

Yeah yeah so because of the few who never gave a toss anyway, every other business and every other punter has to suffer.

That's cowardice.

shocksy · 04-07-2021 09:01PM

If it wasn't known before (however, it was to many) the covid pandemic, this country has a really serious drinking problem. I await the posters who will jump on this post. However, no matter what way people try and defend it, it is true and really disturbing. There are people frothing at the mouth waiting to be able to drink indoors again and get absolutely stupid drunk again. The whole "social argument" doesn't cut it. It's a lame excuse. There are plenty of other ways to be social. However, all most people can think of doing in this country to be social is getting $hit faced drunk. It's pure desperation in a way that alcohol is their only "fun" way of being social with friends and family etc. It's a sad state of affairs when all people can think of doing is getting into a pub again. Thankfully I don't fit into this part of the population. I'm not anti drinking before anyone says it, but there is serious alcohol addiction in this country that many won't dare admit too. There is also a major drinking problem in this country to the extent that certain cohorts of society won't acknowledge it and will fight to the death on internet forums to deny it exists.

namloc1980 · 04-07-2021 09:04PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The “Covid loves to party “ line...

ie to break it down, covid easily spreads

in warm humid enclosed settings

with poor ventilation

Lots of common surfaces and ppl handing glasses to each other and money changing hands

- such as pubs and bars -

especially when the punters are NOT observing distancing

Even more so if ppl have consumed alcohol (in a bar in ireland it’s pretty likely come on) are wasted and falling all over themselves and each other bellowing and singing etc

Now, Regardless of TH personal views on alcohol,

It’s kinda true though?

Pubs would be almost perfect spreading locations for this virus.

This is true for any respiratory illness - flus, colds etc. What's the endgame here? Will vaccines ever be enough or do we have to shut down pubs indefinitely? 4.5m vaccine doses administered and we still have these idealogical posts

shocksy · 04-07-2021 09:07PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

or do we have to shut down pubs indefinitely?

The answer is yes. It would also help the serious drinking problem this country has.

aziz · 04-07-2021 09:07PM

Yes, there is a alcohol addiction problem in Ireland but no worse than a lot of countries.

And the amount of people drinking in the pubs have been dwindling for many years now
Our pub culture will drastically change over the next 10 years or so.

04-07-2021 09:08PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

UK had 24,000 cases and 13 deaths today. As I said in a previous tweet, this is the equivalent of 1,800 cases here and 1 death.

Therefore, if NPHETs prediction of 700,000 cases came true, it would equate to 388 deaths over a 3-month period.

That's 4 deaths per day. And this is NPHETs "WORST" case, most unlikely scenario.

Compare deaths today to cases 2 weeks ago. Still puts it under 1000 though in the worst case scenario

Bsharp · 04-07-2021 09:08PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

He addressed the issue a few days ago and I am happy to take him on good faith.

Ppl have to remember the cabinet and wider NPHET scrutinise the recommendations

Also the wider govt, the opposition, and the media scrutinise the recommendations.

Dare I say Some posters have a very simplistic overly personalised, almost school yard childish view of the situation. (Boo hiss the bad man Tony).

It’s not the case that TH dials up Michael Martin and gives him advice off the top of his head.

Do ppl accept that There’s a professional process involving many stakeholders here

There doesn't appear to be a robust professional process in place for decision making based on information available to the public. Industry best practice for modelling, its application, and associated presentation of results is not being followed.
If we tried to get away with the level of qualified detail being presented by Nphet to government for the decisions being made we wouldn't win a single contract with the government departments we work with.

aziz · 04-07-2021 09:09PM

shocksy wrote: »

The answer is yes. It would also help the serious drinking problem this country has.

And you said you are not anti drinking

My arse

04-07-2021 09:13PM

aziz wrote: »

And you said you are not anti drinking

My arse

Discussing problem drinking automatically equals anti drinking?

aziz · 04-07-2021 09:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Discussing problem drinking automatically equals anti drinking?

Wanting to shut down all pubs does not do anything for problem drinking

04-07-2021 09:17PM

aziz wrote: »

Yes, there is a alcohol addiction problem in Ireland but no worse than a lot of countries.

And the amount of people drinking in the pubs have been dwindling for many years now
Our pub culture will drastically change over the next 10 years or so.

aziz wrote: »

Wanting to shut down all pubs does not do anything for problem drinking

People will just drink at home, at parties if necessary.

namloc1980 · 04-07-2021 09:19PM

shocksy wrote: »

The answer is yes. It would also help the serious drinking problem this country has.

Nothing to do with Covid so. Just an idealogical viewpoint, like we have from Holohan and NPHET.

04-07-2021 09:19PM

shocksy wrote: »

If it wasn't known before (however, it was to many) the covid pandemic, this country has a really serious drinking problem. I await the posters who will jump on this post. However, no matter what way people try and defend it, it is true and really disturbing. There are people frothing at the mouth waiting to be able to drink indoor again and get absolutely stupid drunk again. The whole "social argument" doesn't cut it. It's a lame excuse. There are plenty of other ways to be social. However, all most people can think of doing in this country to be social is getting $hit faced drunk. It's pure desperation in a way that alcohol is their only "fun" way of being social with friends and family etc. It's a sad state of affairs when all people can think of is getting into a pub again. Thankfully I don't fit into this part of the population. I'm not anti drinking before anyone says it, but there is serious alcohol addiction in this country that many won't admit too.

We drink too much in Ireland. That much i'll agree. The attitude to alcohol is unhealthy but thats another discussion for another day and no reason to hold off on reopening indoor dining. Indoor dining emcompasses alot more than just indoor pubs. You have restaurants and coffee shops also. There is thousands of jobs created by these businesses, and even those who can provide outdoor dining at the moment, wont be in a position to do so come winter time. You have to look at the bigger picture here.

prunudo · 04-07-2021 09:21PM

Who knew, wanting to catch up with mates over a few pints now automatically implies we'll be getting **** faced drunk.
Like everything in life there are those that take things to excess, the vast majority don't and enjoy alcohol sensibly. But as has been evident throughout this pandemic, there is a cohort of people who are so narrow minded they want the world to exist and roll to their ideologies.

Unthought Known · 04-07-2021 09:21PM

shocksy wrote: »

If it wasn't known before (however, it was to many) the covid pandemic, this country has a really serious drinking problem. I await the posters who will jump on this post. However, no matter what way people try and defend it, it is true and really disturbing. There are people frothing at the mouth waiting to be able to drink indoors again and get absolutely stupid drunk again. The whole "social argument" doesn't cut it. It's a lame excuse. There are plenty of other ways to be social. However, all most people can think of doing in this country to be social is getting $hit faced drunk. It's pure desperation in a way that alcohol is their only "fun" way of being social with friends and family etc. It's a sad state of affairs when all people can think of doing is getting into a pub again. Thankfully I don't fit into this part of the population. I'm not anti drinking before anyone says it, but there is serious alcohol addiction in this country that many won't dare admit too. There is also a major drinking problem in this country to the extent that certain cohorts of society won't acknowledge it and will fight to the death on internet forums to deny it exists.

Hello Tony. Welcome to the forum.

normanoffside · 04-07-2021 09:38PM

Belgium’s pilot Eneas are a bit more ambitious.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1411760374056095745?s=21

gozunda · 04-07-2021 09:38PM

b0nk1e wrote: »

Sixteen months in and we've still people pushing the Saint Tony line, despite the mendacity, the scheming, and now his deliberate and malicious undermining of the vaccination programme itself as an excuse to hammer an industry he despises.

Many people of my generation grew up absolutely bewildered about how the Church managed to have such complete control of national life - and personal lives - for so long. After the last year we're not bewildered any more.

The helpless mewling of a large segment of the population desperate to live in the warm embrace of an authority figure had this country a social outlier in Europe until well into the 90s, and now they have us as an outlier in the world.

The only country in Europe where leaving the country is a criminal offence (it stopped being a criminal offence in East Germany thirty years ago). The only country in Europe where it is forbidden to eat a cheese sandwich in a cafe.

And all because of the ego of one deeply flawed individual who nevertheless has managed to whip himself up a group of disciples who hang on his every word.

Astonishing.

16 months in and Holohan still has NPHET meeting in secret with only edited minutes being made available to the public, yet these meetings are delivering significant economic and social restrictions on the lives of a people who are almost all vaccinated. Why aren't these meetings broadcast? What have they to hide? Are we going to have to wait ten years - again - for the truth to filter out about what this guy has decided the public should know?

Jfc Did you actually read the stuff you've written there?

04-07-2021 09:41PM

The problem with this whole sh1t show is that the national conversation was dominated by a cohort of professionals who were not affected financially by this pandemic and in particular, un-talented multi-millionaires from RTE

niallo27 · 04-07-2021 09:55PM

gozunda wrote: »

Jfc Did you actually read the stuff you've written there?

Well in fairness, you have stated several times you have no personal opinion on what is happening and you will follow exactly what nphet say, so I think your a prime example of what the poster is talking about.

niallo27 · 04-07-2021 09:57PM

What's wrong with getting drunk every so often anyway, how many great stories start off with do you remember the time we read them books sober.

maxamillius · 04-07-2021 10:07PM

Threads upon threads on this, the reality is we need to move on and put this behind us, it’s not going away, people will be affected, people will die, some close to us, some not.
We are never going to achieve zero covid nor are we ever going to change those who don’t want a vaccines mind, stop trying, everyone is different and everyone entitled to there opinion.
Would we rather hide away or keep on moving with our short time on the planet.
For the greater good I think it’s time to open up and move on. Personal opinion and not looking for an argument!!

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings