Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) Mod warnings in OP

Sammy2012 · 02-07-2021 9:16pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What absolute arrogant tosh. “You wouldn’t know man, you weren’t there”. I hope this thread is not representative of the opinion of teachers on the parents and communities involved in the schools where you are employed. Remember when ye are long retired, us, our kids and our grandkids will still be invested in the success of the schools in our communities.

Off ye go for the next two months trying to close the schools for the Autumn in spite of all the evidence everywhere, not just Ireland, that it has been safe to open schools

I am a teacher and we did not have one case of covid all year. Not one. Actually I've never had my class as well attended since I started teaching over 13 years ago. Yes it was cold at times during the winter but we wore coats *myself and the kids* and we will do it again next winter if needed. Schools will reopen in September as planned. Why wouldn't they? Yes the numbers are rising all over Europe but hospitalisations and deaths are not.

My kids have been attending GAA, dancing and swimming at various times during the year and have never come into contact with Covid. They are now saying the symptoms of the Delta variant are a sore throat, runny nose and a headache. 18 months ago this was known as a cold and I know I would not be running to my doctor to give them 60e so they could tell me that. We have to move on with life.

JTMan · 02-07-2021 9:17pm

Excellent FT article on why we need to vaccinate those aged 12+

https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1411052092714856463

Independent Sage group of science advisers, notes that herd immunity requires about 85 per cent of the population to be immune, and children make up 21 per cent of the UK population. In short, the UK’s “vaccine wall” has a large, teen-shaped hole in it. That, in turn, means either ongoing transmission, with all its risks (the vaccines are great but not perfect) or continued interventions like social distancing. This capricious virus has the capacity to evolve further. Leaving older children unjabbed risks creating viral reservoirs capable of cooking up future variants, some of which might not be as benign to the young.

khalessi · 02-07-2021 9:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What absolute arrogant tosh. “You wouldn’t know man, you weren’t there”. I hope this thread is not representative of the opinion of teachers on the parents and communities involved in the schools where you are employed. Remember when ye are long retired, us, our kids and our grandkids will still be invested in the success of the schools in our communities.

Off ye go for the next two months trying to close the schools for the Autumn in spite of all the evidence everywhere, not just Ireland, that it has been safe to open schools

Arrogant you spend your time putting down any view that is not yours. But anyway, back to the topic at hand.

330,000 kids are isolating in UK at the moment due to Covid, there is a difference between being open and being safe.

What do you think of Norma issuing Covid Dioxide monitors, I am presuming you are aware being on PA.

khalessi · 02-07-2021 9:45pm

Sammy2012 wrote: »

I am a teacher and we did not have one case of covid all year. Not one. Actually I've never had my class as well attended since I started teaching over 13 years ago. Yes it was cold at times during the winter but we wore coats *myself and the kids* and we will do it again next winter if needed. Schools will reopen in September as planned. Why wouldn't they? Yes the numbers are rising all over Europe but hospitalisations and deaths are not.

My kids have been attending GAA, dancing and swimming at various times during the year and have never come into contact with Covid. They are now saying the symptoms of the Delta variant are a sore throat, runny nose and a headache. 18 months ago this was known as a cold and I know I would not be running to my doctor to give them 60e so they could tell me that. We have to move on with life.

Lucky for you Sammy not every school was that lucky, we had numerous classes sent home to isolate.

I didnt think the common cold 18 months ago put people in the hospital but sure what would I know

02-07-2021 9:53pm

khalessi wrote: »

Lucky for you Sammy not every school was that lucky, we had numerous classes sent home to isolate.

I didnt think the common cold 18 months ago put people in the hospital but sure what would I know

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10913403/

I am sure at this stage you must know loads of kids not able to live a normal life due to long Covid?

02-07-2021 9:54pm

khalessi wrote: »

Arrogant you spend your time putting down any view that is not yours. But anyway, back to the topic at hand.

330,000 kids are isolating in UK at the moment due to Covid, there is a difference between being open and being safe.

What do you think of Norma issuing Covid Dioxide monitors, I am presuming you are aware being on PA.

Isolating =/= suffering from long covid

Sammy2012 · 02-07-2021 9:59pm

khalessi wrote: »

Lucky for you Sammy not every school was that lucky, we had numerous classes sent home to isolate.

I didnt think the common cold 18 months ago put people in the hospital but sure what would I know

No khalessi not every school was but lots were. Very few schools around us had cases. There were some cases in schools in our local town but not very many. There would be schools of over 300 kids. No child was hospitalised from any of these outbreaks.

I know of cases where children were refused to be seen by their doctor without the parents getting a covid test. Upon receiving the results the child was clear but the parents were not. However the parent had no symptoms at all.

I was apprehensive of going back to school in March but quickly got back into the swing of things. We temperature checked every morning but for the most part went about our business as normal. And I will do the same in September. There is risk associated with everything in life and noone knows what tomorrow will bring. I lost a family member in tragic circumstances in March and it made me realise life is for living.

JTMan · 03-07-2021 6:34am

Leo seems to be hinting that 12-17 year olds may be vaccinated in September.

“We can still have an outdoor summer, holiday and look forward to schools and colleges going back safely in September when all adults are vaccinated. And we may be vaccinating teenagers at that point too.”

Now to take this a step further and plan secondary school reopenings around the completion of the 12-17 year old vaccination plan.

Van.Bosch · 03-07-2021 8:50am

JTMan wrote: »

Leo seems to be hinting that 12-17 year olds may be vaccinated in September.

Now to take this a step further and plan secondary school reopenings around the completion of the 12-17 year old vaccination plan.

So don’t reopen until they are fully vaccinated?

JTMan · 03-07-2021 10:03am

Van.Bosch wrote: »

So don’t reopen until they are fully vaccinated?

Absolutely if we are dealing with a matter of small number of days/weeks but no if we are dealing with a long length of time but we should not have to deal with a long length of time. As others have said here, ideally secondary school children would be fully vaccinated before September but if full vaccination is not going to occur till a bit into September then the school calendar should be adjusted accordingly to avoid Delta spread.

hesaidshesaid · 03-07-2021 11:29am

Deleted User wrote: »

What absolute arrogant tosh. “You wouldn’t know man, you weren’t there”. I hope this thread is not representative of the opinion of teachers on the parents and communities involved in the schools where you are employed. Remember when ye are long retired, us, our kids and our grandkids will still be invested in the success of the schools in our communities.

Off ye go for the next two months trying to close the schools for the Autumn in spite of all the evidence everywhere, not just Ireland, that it has been safe to open schools

There is no appetite among teachers to close schools. ‘Homeschooling’ or whatever you like to call it, is clearly not anywhere near as effective. Our digital divide also heightens the inequality of access to education.

Teachers would like schools to be safer, for the benefit of all. They would also very much like to see an end to the bull**** narrative from the DE and in large swathes of media that things are just as they were in schools before Covid.

It is fair to say that the people working in school buildings daily have greater insight into what is going on. I wouldn’t claim to know what it’s been like working in hospitals despite having multiple family members and friends who work in them. That would be arrogance.

SusanC10 · 03-07-2021 12:29pm

Interesting article below on Vaccination of kids Ages 12+ in Israel.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/covid-did-israel-screw-up-not-vaccinating-children-ages-12-15-right-away-672203

Lumen · 03-07-2021 4:51pm

SusanC10 wrote: »

Interesting article below on Vaccination of kids Ages 12+ in Israel.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/covid-did-israel-screw-up-not-vaccinating-children-ages-12-15-right-away-672203

IPS HEAD Prof. Tzachi Grossman, along with the organization’s colleagues, wrote that the risk for a child to develop a severe form of COVID if infected – which stands at 1:3,000 – outweighs that of developing a myocarditis – which according to US data for ages 12-17 is more than five times less likely at 1:16,000 (according to Israeli data for the age group 16-19, the occurrence was half as likely at 1:6,000).

This is oddly/wrongly worded, but if those odds are correct:

1:3,000 risk for a child to develop a severe form of COVID if infected
1:6,000 risk for a child to develop a myocarditis if vaccinated

...then I can't see NIAC approving them based on their recent decisions, because they can argue that 50% of kids won't get infected if infection control measures (ventilation, masks, distancing, test and trace) are used.

Of course that assumes equivalent harm between "a severe form of COVID" and "a myocarditis".

edit: it would probably make sense to investigate the characteristics of those who suffer either effect, and administer the vaccines selectively. I'm sure there are smart people on it.

lucernarian · 03-07-2021 4:55pm

Sammy2012 wrote: »

I am a teacher and we did not have one case of covid all year. Not one. Actually I've never had my class as well attended since I started teaching over 13 years ago. Yes it was cold at times during the winter but we wore coats *myself and the kids* and we will do it again next winter if needed. Schools will reopen in September as planned. Why wouldn't they? Yes the numbers are rising all over Europe but hospitalisations and deaths are not.

My kids have been attending GAA, dancing and swimming at various times during the year and have never come into contact with Covid. They are now saying the symptoms of the Delta variant are a sore throat, runny nose and a headache. 18 months ago this was known as a cold and I know I would not be running to my doctor to give them 60e so they could tell me that. We have to move on with life.

(Side note) Can anyone tell me why middle-aged women are more likely than any other group to be vaccine-skeptical?

As for covid itself, did we fake all the people in ICU back in February? Or is it because they're old and/or frail patients so it's all fine?

I do agree that schools should reopen though.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 03-07-2021 5:01pm

Van.Bosch wrote: »

So don’t reopen until they are fully vaccinated?

I'd guess they'll vaccinate thro the schools if they're gonna do it at all, only way to get as many as you'd want done and quickly.

Same as hpv done at school.

Lumen · 03-07-2021 5:01pm

lucernarian wrote: »

(Side note) Can anyone tell me why middle-aged women are more likely than any other group to be vaccine-skeptical?

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=name+karen :pac:

lucernarian · 03-07-2021 5:55pm

Lumen wrote: »

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=name+karen :pac:

Thanks for taking me up on the joke offer hahaha

JTMan · 04-07-2021 7:16am

The vaccination of those aged 12-17 is likely to begin in August according to Independent.ie here.

Vaccination of children as young as 12 against Covid-19 could begin as early as next month.

It comes as the State races to beat an expected surge in the Delta variant in the coming weeks as the return of schools in late August approaches.

The HSE’s Schools Immunisation Programme is expected to be used alongside the existing Covid-19 vaccination infrastructure to begin vaccinating children as soon as clinical advice allows.

Separately, a senior Government source this weekend said if the National Immunisation Advisory Committee (Niac) “advise on kids being vaccinated the school vaccination programme will be utilised. The HSE is on top of all scenarios”.

wirelessdude01 · 04-07-2021 10:22am

JTMan wrote: »

The vaccination of those aged 12-17 is likely to begin in August according to Independent.ie here.

The quote that The HSE is in top of all scenarios gave me a right good chuckle. Like fcuk they are. Much like education, the top brass are a disgrace with regards to planning.

is_that_so · 04-07-2021 10:26am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The quote that The HSE is in top of all scenarios gave me a right good chuckle. Like fcuk they are. Much like education, the top brass are a disgrace with regards to planning.

So, 4.5m doses done is a mirage? Or the 350K last week was organised by people on the ground? It's a speculative piece by the Indo from a source.

Sammy2012 · 04-07-2021 3:04pm

lucernarian wrote: »

(Side note) Can anyone tell me why middle-aged women are more likely than any other group to be vaccine-skeptical?

As for covid itself, did we fake all the people in ICU back in February? Or is it because they're old and/or frail patients so it's all fine?

I do agree that schools should reopen though.

I never said I was vaccine skeptical. Im getting my second dose next Thurs. Happy to take the vaccine. I'm pro vaccine. My kids have all their vaccines and I've gotten them the Men B vaccine extra.

And I never said anything about faking people in ICU. There are approx 260 beds in use today in ICU. 14/16 of these are covid related. A lot of the problems is our lack of capacity in ICU. But have they done much to increase this since last March??? They'd rather pay massive wages to many in the HSE than put any services in on the ground.

JTMan · 04-07-2021 6:18pm

‘No way’ to end cycle of transmission without vaccinating children, Irish Times reports here.

Noting children and young people accounted for 20-25 per cent of the population she said: “The more people who are vaccinated the better chance we have of achieving population-wide herd immunity”.

Prof Kingston Mills, director of Trinity College’s Biomedical Sciences Institute, said vaccinating children “makes complete sense.

“If you look at the numbers of cases in children . . . it is among 12- to 18-year-olds that the virus is circulating now.”

JTMan · 05-07-2021 6:19am

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1411820173464461312

CruelSummer · 05-07-2021 9:20am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What absolute arrogant tosh. “You wouldn’t know man, you weren’t there”. I hope this thread is not representative of the opinion of teachers on the parents and communities involved in the schools where you are employed. Remember when ye are long retired, us, our kids and our grandkids will still be invested in the success of the schools in our communities.

Off ye go for the next two months trying to close the schools for the Autumn in spite of all the evidence everywhere, not just Ireland, that it has been safe to open schools

This poster doesn’t represent teachers. I would go so far as to say I haven’t met one teacher sharing their views in the ‘real world setting’. Many times reading their posts over the last year, I’ve wondered why they entered the profession if all they’re going to contribute to the Covid crisis is trying to get the schools closed down.
Thankfully most if not all teachers just want to get on with things and aren’t filling up the Covid schools thread with scaremongering during the holidays.

CruelSummer · 05-07-2021 9:21am

khalessi wrote: »

Arrogant you spend your time putting down any view that is not yours. But anyway, back to the topic at hand.

330,000 kids are isolating in UK at the moment due to Covid, there is a difference between being open and being safe.

What do you think of Norma issuing Covid Dioxide monitors, I am presuming you are aware being on PA.

Soon the U.K. Government will tell them they don’t need to isolate for Covid (Common Cold symptoms). The hospital system is quiet in the U.K. - the vaccines have worked.

lucernarian · 05-07-2021 1:18pm

Sammy2012 wrote: »

I never said I was vaccine skeptical. Im getting my second dose next Thurs. Happy to take the vaccine. I'm pro vaccine. My kids have all their vaccines and I've gotten them the Men B vaccine extra.

And I never said anything about faking people in ICU. There are approx 260 beds in use today in ICU. 14/16 of these are covid related. A lot of the problems is our lack of capacity in ICU. But have they done much to increase this since last March??? They'd rather pay massive wages to many in the HSE than put any services in on the ground.

Nor did I, I added something as a side note explicitly because it wasn't aimed at you, but go ahead and react to it anyway by all means.

khalessi · 05-07-2021 6:30pm

CruelSummer wrote: »

This poster doesn’t represent teachers. I would go so far as to say I haven’t met one teacher sharing their views in the ‘real world setting’. Many times reading their posts over the last year, I’ve wondered why they entered the profession if all they’re going to contribute to the Covid crisis is trying to get the schools closed down.
Thankfully most if not all teachers just want to get on with things and aren’t filling up the Covid schools thread with scaremongering during the holidays.

You are funny but completely incorrect but it does not suit your mindset that I have been calling for schools to be open. If you had bothered to read correctly I have fought and continue to fight for safe schools, masks, carbon monitors, hepa air purifiers/filters, school staff vaccination, social distancing, antigen testing, basically anything to keep schools open safely.

There are those on here who ridicule teachers either directly by making facile comments often incorrect, or by liking the posts of those who ridicule, for wanting these things in schools. Bizarre the attitude to keeping children and school staff safe. Yet I bet they are to first to complain about the lack of indoor dining and have no problem with hospitality getting vaccinated so they can have a pint

Meanwhile, the Taoiseach has twice now said teachers were correct not to reopen in January due to the high cases but have any of the people here slagging off teachers apologised, no because they cannot bear to be wrong.

The Dept of Ed has said same mitigations in August when schools return, bubbles pods, handwashing, some carbon monitors but no mention of hepa air filters which is more or less same approach taken for B117.

Sorry if it bursts your bubble but schools will not have changed from 3 weeks ago when they reopen, in order to keep your children safe.

CruelSummer wrote: »

Soon the U.K. Government will tell them they don’t need to isolate for Covid (Common Cold symptoms). The hospital system is quiet in the U.K. - the vaccines have worked.

The UK gov being Bojo axing laws on 19 July despite having less vaccinations then Israel who are seeing a rise in cases due to Depta varient and Pfizer being only 64% efficacy against Delta variant and the people on the ground ie Doctors and Nurses are calling out saying it is too soon to drop safety mitigations. Good luck to them hope it works out.

05-07-2021 7:19pm

khalessi wrote: »

You are funny but completely incorrect but it does not suit your mindset that I have been calling for schools to be open. If you had bothered to read correctly I have fought and continue to fight for safe schools, masks, carbon monitors, hepa air purifiers/filters, school staff vaccination, social distancing, antigen testing, basically anything to keep schools open safely.

There are those on here who ridicule teachers either directly by making facile comments often incorrect, or by liking the posts of those who ridicule, for wanting these things in schools. Bizarre the attitude to keeping children and school staff safe. Yet I bet they are to first to complain about the lack of indoor dining and have no problem with hospitality getting vaccinated so they can have a pint

Meanwhile, the Taoiseach has twice now said teachers were correct not to reopen in January due to the high cases but have any of the people here slagging off teachers apologised, no because they cannot bear to be wrong.

The Dept of Ed has said same mitigations in August when schools return, bubbles pods, handwashing, some carbon monitors but no mention of hepa air filters which is more or less same approach taken for B117.

Sorry if it bursts your bubble but schools will not have changed from 3 weeks ago when they reopen, in order to keep your children safe.

The UK gov being Bojo axing laws on 19 July despite having less vaccinations then Israel who are seeing a rise in cases due to Depta varient and Pfizer being only 64% efficacy against Delta variant and the people on the ground ie Doctors and Nurses are calling out saying it is too soon to drop safety mitigations. Good luck to them hope it works out.

Cherry picking negative data from studies once more. The Israeli study showed Pfizer 93% effective against serious illness. And the Israeli study is an outlier on studies of the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine against the delta variant.

Also Israel are at 25% of the case rate we are at currently and hospital rates have gone up by 50% while cases have gone up 1500%. This in spite of there being significant vaccine hesitancy among the orthodox and Israeli Arab communities.

khalessi · 05-07-2021 7:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Cherry picking negative data from studies once more. The Israeli study showed Pfizer 93% effective against serious illness. And the Israeli study is an outlier on studies of the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine against the delta variant.

Also Israel are at 25% of the case rate we are at currently and hospital rates have gone up by 50% while cases have gone up 1500%. This in spite of there being significant vaccine hesitancy among the orthodox and Israeli Arab communities.

I think it is sweet how you and CS follow each other around to pick on people, and yet again prove how anyone who disagrees with your posse is put down. Sending hope and optimism that you mature soon.

Interesting MM and a few others dont think this is over or should be dismissed as a flu or cold

05-07-2021 7:27pm

khalessi wrote: »

I think it is sweet how you and CS follow each other around to pick on people, and yet again prove how anyone who disagrees with your posse is put down. Sending hope and optimism that you mature soon.

That’s a good one. This is probably the only thread where CS and I have agreed, and that is only because the data posted in support of some of the thread “facts” is blatantly incorrect. Most of the time we vehemently disagree on the need for restriction which I agree with, just not that schools are a significant issue

Can you point to where what I said is incorrect rather than purely paint everyone who disagrees with the one brush?

Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) **Mod warnings in OP**

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Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) Mod warnings in OP