Schools and Covid 19 (part 5) **Mod warnings in OP**

CruelSummer

khalessi wrote: »

I did quote Dr Gabriel Scally a while ago from a radio interview, saying 1 in 8 primary children got Long Covid and 1 in 7 secondary when discussing Covid in Britain. Interesting figures though i am sure due to the difference in severity of the illness not all ended up in hospital. We cannot look at figures here due to the curtain of GDPR.

Why are you and CS always so dismissive?

It happens and at the moment in adults they are noticing an issue with decreasing grey matter being replaced with white matter. It is a small number but should not be ignored.
I am glad you arent in power otherwise people with CF in this country would be ignored because CF occurs in 1 in 20 people here (1 in 16 Cork).

I find it interesting you are quick to dismiss any mention of continuing illnesses that dont match your utopic view.

Dr Gabriel Scally’s quote, I heard that interview on ISAG loving Claire Byrne and immediately checked it out - is FALSE. No one from the broadcasting authority pulled him up on it though.
It was in fact 1 in 7 of hospitalised children. He deliberately misleads as per the leaked ISAG emails suggesting they do just this.

seamus

khalessi wrote: »

Why are you and CS always so dismissive?

You can probably throw me in there too.

I wouldn't say I'm dismissive of long covid, but I am skeptical. The data around it is incredibly incomplete, with all sorts of figures being thrown around. One study saying 1 in 20. Other studies saying that's it affects 1 in 20 of those who end up in hospital.

My biggest reservation of all of these studies is a lack of any comparative data. They follow people who've had covid and then ask them at varying intervals whether they've still had symptoms - headaches, fatigue, cough, etc.

What they don't do is take a sample of the population who haven't had covid and ask them the same questions.

Thus we don't know what baseline of people persistently or chronically suffer these symptoms anyway. And it's especially important to ask these questions at a time when everyone's lives have been turned upside down, and stress levels are high.

I don't deny that long covid is a thing. I'm just not convinced that it's particularly novel.

In any case, if long covid was the only outcome of covid (as opposed to death), them we would never have locked down the country or closed the schools. So it's never going to fly as a reason why we should maintain restrictions.

khalessi

seamus wrote: »

You can probably throw me in there too.

I wouldn't say I'm dismissive of long covid, but I am skeptical. The data around it is incredibly incomplete, with all sorts of figures being thrown around. One study saying 1 in 20. Other studies saying that's it affects 1 in 20 of those who end up in hospital.

My biggest reservation of all of these studies is a lack of any comparative data. They follow people who've had covid and then ask them at varying intervals whether they've still had symptoms - headaches, fatigue, cough, etc.

What they don't do is take a sample of the population who haven't had covid and ask them the same questions.

Thus we don't know what baseline of people persistently or chronically suffer these symptoms anyway. And it's especially important to ask these questions at a time when everyone's lives have been turned upside down, and stress levels are high.

I don't deny that long covid is a thing. I'm just not convinced that it's particularly novel.

In any case, if long covid was the only outcome of covid (as opposed to death), them we would never have locked down the country or closed the schools. So it's never going to fly as a reason why we should maintain restrictions.

I dont just mean of Long Covid but of any mention that children can get Covid, instantly dismissed, almost pathalogical.

ShineOn7

beggars_bush wrote: »

Norma? Is that you?

Pretty sure, based on Jimmy's follow up post. that he was being sarcastic

khalessi

khalessi wrote: »

I dont just mean of Long Covid but of any mention that children can get Covid, instantly dismissed, almost pathalogical.

Where? In your imagination?

hesaidshesaid

Deleted User wrote: »

Where? In your imagination?

Genuine question - do you have any involvement at all with schools? On-site lived experience as opposed to data collection or analysis, I mean.

hesaidshesaid

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Genuine question - do you have any involvement at all with schools? On-site lived experience as opposed to data collection or analysis, I mean.

Yes, now what has that got to do with unnecessary hype over “long covid” in children

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, now what has that got to do with unnecessary hype over “long covid” in children

So what is it you do in schools? Oh it might be my imagination but that seems to be a derogatory and unnecessary comment about Long Covid but anyways.

Jinglejangle69

Lads, schools have shown to be safe.

Most teachers will be vaccinated come September.

I think it's time we moved on for all our sanity.

khalessi

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Lads, schools have shown to be safe.

Most teachers will be vaccinated come September.

I think it's time we moved on for all our sanity.

I would disagree with that statement as would most people who work in them. Huge issues around how this was dealt with and continues to be dealt with in schools.

Holidays in a few days phew, but the Dept announced just before secondary schools went on holidays they will be providing some carbon monitors to schools, but no date give when.

Schools have asked for hepa air purifirers and carbon monitors since December and have been ignored. Now they're being sent some monitors not enough and Dept wont be using the standard of 800ppm for C02 levels but instead 1400-1600ppm. Another ticking the box exercise and they've told us that the monitor can be moved to a different room whenever:rolleyes: Meanwhile they object to going back to the Dail as it is detrimental to their health. Hmmmm

khalessi

khalessi wrote: »

I would disagree with that statement as would most people who work in them. Huge issues around how this was dealt with and continues to be dealt with in schools.

Holidays in a few days phew, but the Dept announced just before secondary schools went on holidays they will be providing some carbon monitors to schools, but no date give when.

Schools have asked for hepa air purifirers and carbon monitors since December and have been ignored. Now they're being sent some monitors not enough and Dept wont be using the standard of 800ppm for C02 levels but instead 1400-1600ppm. Another ticking the box exercise and they've told us that the monitor can be moved to a different room whenever:rolleyes: Meanwhile they object to going back to the Dail as it is detrimental to their health. Hmmmm

None of which in any way changes the fact that you will all be vaccinated come September

Thats me

seamus wrote: »

What they don't do is take a sample of the population who haven't had covid and ask them the same questions.

There are more reliable investigations, for example: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v1.full

Thats me

Deleted User wrote: »

the fact that you will all be vaccinated come September

Vaccinated against two years old strain to that time.

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

None of which in any way changes the fact that you will all be vaccinated come September

What is your job in schools? Hopefully all vaccinated but chance not all

average_runner

khalessi wrote: »

What is your job in schools? Hopefully all vaccinated but chance not all

Anyone over 40 will be fully vaccinated. The virus doesn't affect the younger group as much as data has shown.

We have the vaccine, its 95% effective, flu is more dangerous.

Time to move on and drop alot of the school restrictions for next year

khalessi

average_runner wrote: »

Anyone over 40 will be fully vaccinated. The virus doesn't affect the younger group as much as data has shown.

We have the vaccine, its 95% effective, flu is more dangerous.

Time to move on and drop alot of the school restrictions for next year

Delta variant anyone?

average_runner

khalessi wrote: »

Delta variant anyone?

Vaccine is 95% effective against. How many under 40 in the UK have died from it?
How many people with the full vaccine have died from it in the UK?

khalessi

average_runner wrote: »

Vaccine is 95% effective against. How many under 40 in the UK have died from it?
How many people with the full vaccine have died from it in the UK?

Ah the old death question defense. It isn't just about dying but sure you know that.

History Queen

average_runner wrote: »

Anyone over 40 will be fully vaccinated. The virus doesn't affect the younger group as much as data has shown.

We have the vaccine, its 95% effective, flu is more dangerous.

Time to move on and drop alot of the school restrictions for next year

School restrictions as you call them have been sanctioned again for next year so I'd expect schools to look very similar to how they looked last year. With the exception of online learning. I don't expect schools will close again now that we have the vaccine programme up and running.

Thats me

average_runner wrote: »

Vaccine is 95% effective against. How many under 40 in the UK have died from it?
How many people with the full vaccine have died from it in the UK?

This is answering 2 of 3 your questions: https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/covid-delta-variant-lockdowns/

More importantly, a June 11 PHE report shows that as a hospital patient, you are six times more likely to die of the COVID Delta variant if you are fully vaccinated, than if you are not vaccinated at all.

The information shows up in Table 6 of the 77-page document, which are labeled as the attendance to emergency care and deaths by vaccination status and confirmed Delta cases from February 1 to June 7.

Of 33,206 Delta variant cases admitted to the hospital, 19,573 were not vaccinated. Of those, 23 (or 0.1175%) died. But, of the 13,633 patients who were vaccinated with either one or two doses, 19 (or 0.1393%) died, which is an 18.6% higher death rate than for the unvaccinated patients. Seven of the 5,393 patients who were partially vaccinated with one dose died, or 0.1297%.

Of the 1,785 patients who had both vaccine doses 14 days or more before admission, 12 (or 0.6722%) died. This death rate is 5.72 times higher than that for unvaccinated patients. Put another way, if all 33,206 patients had been fully vaccinated, there would have been 223 deaths.

In relation to the third question "How many under 40 in the UK have died from it?" the PHE report referred above telling: "mortality is a lagged indicator and the vast majority of cases are still within the 28 days of follow-up required." (though age/sex pyramid is found in the report, so you can check out numbers of infected)

average_runner

Thats me wrote: »

This is answering 2 of 3 your questions: https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/covid-delta-variant-lockdowns/



In relation to the third question "How many under 40 in the UK have died from it?" the PHE report referred above telling: "mortality is a lagged indicator and the vast majority of cases are still within the 28 days of follow-up required." (though age/sex pyramid is found in the report, so you can check out numbers of infected)

Good argument except it doesn't show the breakdown from one dose to 2 doses.

UK already said most hospital numbers are people not fully vaccinated.


Maybe read this https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1596
"Public Health England said that the data showed there was a higher risk of hospital admission for patients with the delta variant compared with the alpha variant, but its analysis2 revealed that two doses of vaccine gave a high degree of protection against hospital admission, estimated to be more than 90%.

According to the agency’s latest variant technical briefing,3 as of 14 June a total of 806 people had been admitted to hospital with the delta variant of the virus—an increase of 423 since last week. Among these cases, 527 people were unvaccinated and only 84 of the 806 had received both doses."

average_runner

khalessi wrote: »

Ah the old death question defense. It isn't just about dying but sure you know that.

Its about living, getting the country open again. Getting the younger generation out to enjoy themselves. Its about trying to reverse all the mental damage we have done, except for the ones that its too late.

Its about getting all sports back up and running.

The virus will be here forever like the flu, so we got to move on now.

Thats me

average_runner wrote: »

Good argument except it doesn't show the breakdown from one dose to 2 doses.

???

33,206 Delta variant cases in total
19,573 patients were not vaccinated. Of those, 23 (or 0.1175%) died. 
13,633 patients were vaccinated with either one or two doses, 19 (or 0.1393%) 
 5,393 patients were partially vaccinated with one dose died, or 0.1297%.
 1,785 patients had both vaccine doses 14 days or more before admission, 12 (or 0.6722%) died. 
Calculated: 
 6,455 = 13,633 - (5,393 + 1,785) -> patients had both vaccine doses less than 14 days before admission

Notice, % of fully vaccinated is 5% of total admissions. So vaccine is effective as declared.

Theboinkmaster

Can't believe this thread is still going.

UK variant, Delta variant, Lambda variant - people will always use another variant to shape their message, scare monger etc.

As far as schools are concerned COVID is over.

Roll on September!

khalessi

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

As far as schools are concerned COVID is over.

Incorrect as far as Dept is concerned same bubbles pods and windows in Sept

Always interesting how people who have no clue how schools operate declare matters over with.

SusanC10

Any thoughts on when the vaccination of students aged 12+ might start ? Assuming NIAC approve vaccination of 12-15 year olds.

And if it likely to be administered through schools ?
Or GP/MVC/Pharmacy ?

Leftwaffe

khalessi wrote: »

Incorrect as far as Dept is concerned same bubbles pods and windows in Sept

Always interesting how people who have no clue how schools operate declare matters over with.

Yeah it’s gonna be the exact same setup in schools next year unfortunately. I long for the day I don’t have to wear a mask in there.

km79

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Can't believe this thread is still going.

UK variant, Delta variant, Lambda variant - people will always use another variant to shape their message, scare monger etc.

As far as schools are concerned COVID is over.

Roll on September!

Schools have categorically been told to prepare for next year identical to the year gone.
So no

km79

SusanC10 wrote: »

Any thoughts on when the vaccination of students aged 12+ might start ? Assuming NIAC approve vaccination of 12-15 year olds.

And if it likely to be administered through schools ?
Or GP/MVC/Pharmacy ?

I would hope/assume not through schools. I would hope it is in an appropriate medical setting with the HSE taking full responsibility for it.
One of the good things this year was the HPV vaccines were given in medical settings rather than schools this year. I would hope that would continue. I never felt it appropriate to be carrying out mass vaccinations in school

SusanC10

km79 wrote: »

I would hope/assume not through schools. I would hope it is in an appropriate medical setting with the HSE taking full responsibility for it.
One of the good things this year was the HPV vaccines were given in medical settings rather than schools this year. I would hope that would continue. I never felt it appropriate to be carrying out mass vaccinations in school

In our area HPV was administered in a hotel this year - the same hotel is now a MVC.