raind wrote: »
That’s a good one. This is probably the only thread where CS and I have agreed, and that is only because the data posted in support of some of the thread “facts” is blatantly incorrect. Most of the time we vehemently disagree on the need for restriction which I agree with, just not that schools are a significant issue
Can you point to where what I said is incorrect rather than purely paint everyone who disagrees with the one brush?
khalessi wrote: »
I think it is sweet how you and CS follow each other around to pick on people, and yet again prove how anyone who disagrees with your posse is put down. Sending hope and optimism that you mature soon.
Interesting MM and a few others dont think this is over or should be dismissed as a flu or cold
Drifting towards student vaccination
Sindo leads today on the reopening of schools
I think the focus should be on trying to get as many 12+ year olds fully vaccinated before school reopens even if that means slight small adjustments to the secondary school reopening date to bring it in line with the completion of the 12+ vaccinations.
As a mother and a teacher I will not be making my own kids take this vaccine. I am in my mid 30s and fully vaccinated as is pretty much everyone I know. But I really don't see the need for kids to be vaccinated against this. They have had all their vaccines in the childhood vaccination schedule but ill definitely be holding out on this one. I have no problem going back to school and getting on with things. It's starting to get ridiculous now.
Why in favour of all the other vaccines and not this one?
I can give my own answer for this.
I have seen children with Whooping cough, measles and meningitis (few thanks to vaccinating) and I have also seen many many Children with covid. There's one group that are very very ill and close to death. I know 2 children personally who died from meningitis.
The Covid group had nothing more than a typical viral infection at worse. Even a CF child had very little symptoms. So the risk of disease does not outweigh the risk of a vaccine. The exact same reason I don't elect to get chicken pox vaccine for my kids.
I'm older than you so had whooping cough as a baby, measles when I was 3, rubella and mumps when I was 5. I don't remember the whooping cough but my mum says I coughed for a few days with a horrible sounding cough but was otherwise my usual happy self. Measles was crap, with hindsight I'd describe what I can remember as a days long severe migraine. Rubella and mumps were actually a great time. I felt fine, ate a lot of ice-cream and my extended family all brought me presents. I have genuinely lovely memories of those illnesses. I still got my son vaccinated against them though. Because mass vaccination of these illnesses isn't done to protect each child from an illness that in all likelihood will range from crappy few days to genuinely great for them. It's to create a herd immunity to protect the outliers who will suffer the worst consequences of usually fine, occasionally serious and rarely terminal illnesses. The odds are most vaccinations you have given your child weren't to protect your child from serious illnesses but to eliminate the disease in order to protect the outliers. They are societal not individual.
And that's why they need to be vaccinated against Covid as soon as it's deemed safe. The pandemic only ends when we achieve herd immunity and the current data suggests we need 90% of the entire population to be vaccinated in order to achieve herd immunity. That means nearly every single person above the age of 5 or the risks to society. It's not about your children as individual people. It's about every single one of us who can, doing this for society as a whole.
I had whooping cough at 20 so I remember it well, and i can assure you it's a lot worse than coughing for a few days. I personally gave my children vaccines that would protect them as much as possible. I don't care about society as a whole in that sense. My children come 1st. And if that makes me selfish I don't care. Your anecdotal fond memories and my anecdotal hellish experiences are both just that Ancedotal. I don't care about society as a whole when it involves my children. I will put them before your children, before cancer patients, before any other child or adult on this planet. And there is nothing anyone can say that will make me change that mindset. My children don't need a covid vaccine because worldwide there is virtually 0 risk of severe illness or death for kids. And that is not the same, worldwide, for the scheduled childhood vaccinations. I don't elect for anything I don't perceive as a risk to my children. If they change their mind at 16 thats their perogative.
You don't get to not care about society. Every single last piece of security and luxury you and your children have comes from society. Without our society we have nothing but miserable, short lives. And while most of the time society is so secure and luxurious we actually get to not care about it and be selfish and not suffer the consequences of that. This simply can't be the case in a pandemic of one of the most contagious respiratory illness ever, which is what the Delta variant is. How much children do or don't suffer is frankly irrelevant. We can not achieve herd immunity if we don't vaccinate the vast majority of children. Life can't go back to normal if we don't vaccinate our kids. So you might think that the risk of the disease isn't much to children but the risk of the pandemic is. Constant threat of school closures, extra-curricular activities and indoor play areas never being able to reopen, Christmas never being the same as it used to be because it's slap bang in winter, living lives removed from elderly relatives that it's never going to be safe for them to be indoors with, never properly learning to interpret facial communication as well as they need to because masks have to be too prevalent for too long.
We've been doing all of this for the last 16 months because the consequences of not doing so were worse than the consequences of doing so. But that doesn't mean there weren't serious negative consequences. And children have suffered those consequences more than most. And if we have to continue doing so on and off for the rest of their childhoods, the consequences on their social development will be far, far worse than the disease or the vaccine side effects put together. Significantly so.
But all of this is moot, tbh. A year ago boards was full of people insisting they wouldn't be taking the 'experimental' vaccine. And it was all a load of bluster. When their time came they almost all went and got it. It's pretty much inevitable that will also be true for kids. People will bluster about it now. But when the time comes, and the vaccine is being rolled out, most likely in schools through or after one more shîtty, limited winter and potentially damp squib of a Christmas. Very, very, very few parents who aren't hardcore anti-vax assholes, will be opting their kids out and risking this shît going on a minute longer than it needs to.
Very few of them are hardcore anti-vax, they genuinely don't believe there is a need to get them vaccinated and no amount of moralising, simplistic labelling or abuse is likely to make them change their stance. Finally you have the hesitant, some of whom may not have opted to be vaccinated themselves. That's for the HSE to persuade them if we decide to do the 12-15 age group.
My kids will contribute to herd immunity when and if they encounter Covid authentically. I am far from anti vax, I have spent the past year arguing with anti vax people. I was first in queue to get my vax. But let me set you straight, any bit of security and luxury me and my kids have was given by me and my husband. Don't talk to me about society, the same society that failed me and my husband when we were children. I enjoyed home schooling my children. The only elderly relative I had died of covid last year. We dont have relatives to visit in winter, Christmas every year is spent in my home with me my husband and our children. I gave birth alone to all my children. I went to scans and apps alone because my husband had to either work or mind our children we already had. So don't talk to me about society. If my children get covid they get covid, I will be the one to take care of them, not society. You are barking up the wrong tree here, with all due respect.
Does the Dept have general 'guidance' or recommendations for schools about kids returning in Sept who have been abroad during the summer ?
ie. not to return to school until X days after returning.
They did last year but haven't heard this year. I did read though that some Creches have rules about not attending for a period of time after return from abroad but this seems to be individual creches.
There is supposed to be a meeting about returning to school safely tomorrow so maybe things will be clearer after that.
Announcement expected today
Hopefully ending the need for school closures, at 2nd level, barring another very odd varient messing things up.
I am wondering will Schools have the right to know the Vaccination status of students ?
I do NOT mean that being vaccinated will be a pre-condition for attending school - just to be clear.
But fully-vaccinated people who are Close Contacts and are asymptomatic don't need to be tested or restrict movements. So, if say a student tests positive and close contacts are identified from the Class, then how will the school know who should stay at home and be tested and who doesn't need to ?
Just wondering how it could work ?
They were so bad at contact tracing last year I don't think it will arise
Will it become self-policing?? Which in a way it was already as contact tracing so bad. Just hope enough will be vaccinated to protect the majority. DS never complained really about the masks but now after having a summer outdoors & mostly free of them he already saying he dreads having to wear them all day in class again would love if they go soon too in school.
Has any proper information come out about pregnant staff returning in September? Surely vaccinated or not the threat of placenta damage and stillbirths will let them work remotely/out of the class
I’m just looking for opinions here, do people think school will return in September?
I really want schools to be open but I suspect they won’t. It going to be devastating for the children I’d they don’t.
Why would anyone think they won’t?
With the increase in children testing positive currently and the fact that some fully vaccinated people are testing positive, also schools are not being equipped with any ventilation measures to increase safety.
I want my kids in school, I don’t want them learning at home. It’s a disaster for their social development.
Personally, I think that there would need to be a significant deterioration in the Covid situation from where we are currently for Schools not to open in late-August/September.
Most Secondary students will have had at least one dose by then and maybe some 12 year olds in 6th Class.
The DoE have yet to finalise their plans in terms of ventilation etc so will see what is planned there.
No trees were harmed in the posting of this message, however a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Their “plan” is more or less finalized . It consists of telling schools to leave windows open and wear jackets when winter comes along with sending out some CO2 monitors . Not sure what good the monitors are really . If the levels rise too high and windows and doors are already open what then .......
That’s the HSE job . They tried to push it back on schools towards the end o flats year when they were “overwhelmed “ though . But it’s their job.
are you sure about not having to restrict movements etc by the way
I know that’s the case in the UK but not sure it is here
From the HSE website
"If you are a close contact and you have received a Covid-19 vaccine
You do not need to restrict your movements or be tested for COVID-19 if it is more than: