Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

06-05-2021 11:38AM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

I think at this stage two things are pretty clear (I hope I'm right here);

1. They can no longer apply fines at the airport from May 10th as it'll be disproportionate to domestic restrictions and therefore a breach of EU law.

2. They have no option but to adopt the EU green cert, and the most they can delay is 6 weeks from EU introduction. They may, however, chose to drag their heals issuing them.

I think the EU green cert may be largely irrelevant to those travelling at the beginning, as I would imagine that the vast majority of EU countries will be proactive and accept proof of vaccination, or worst case, a test, while it is being rolled out. The main hurdle now is the removal of EU countries from the MHQ list. Has anyone managed to find the criteria for this?

1. Which eu law and what's the penalties? There's airport specific fines in places for decades already. The airport has it's own byelaws.

2. Again, that's a user here stating that. It's not even agreed yet and the eu has not got that authority. It's still being negotiated at present. The 6 weeks is a suggested lead in time to allow everyone get up and running. It doesn't carry restrictions or penalties.

Ray Donovan · 06-05-2021 11:38AM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Should be well gone by then. There will surely be someone on here travelling soon that'll advise. I might take a drive up to the airport next week if I'm in that way, have a letter that'll put me in the area.

Wont need a letter next week. Full IC travel is back!! Looks like they have you institutionalised!!

Dr. Em · 06-05-2021 11:39AM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I think most people are planning to do all that a it’s the fines for leaving the country people seem to want to “get around”

I'd like to think so. There have been some recent posts encouraging people to go on holiday just before the schools open and not to tell the schools, and other further back asking how to get around self-isolating at all and go straight back to work. This is just fuel for anyone who wants to shut down travel.

06-05-2021 11:40AM

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Could you ring the gards or the airport police and ask?

The airport police have no involvement so they will just redirect to to the Guards / Gardai (use the language of your choice)

Chuck Norris 2021 · 06-05-2021 11:40AM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I think most people are planning to do all that a it’s the fines for leaving the country people seem to want to “get around”

Agreed. Even with the green list last year, we still did the 'restricted movement'. I think most people on here will be responsible.

On another note, has anyone got a link to where they record the incidence of variants in different EU countries? Just want to apply a little science and see why they are still imprisioning EU citizens. The only data I could find was on the UK variant. Total number of cases, cases in the last 28 days etc.

I know it's the most wide spread here, so I'm comparing apples and oranges, but the figure per 100k for Italy is 3, whereas Ireland is 19. I'd like to do the same comparison for the other variants if I can get the data.

06-05-2021 11:42AM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Agreed. Even with the green list last year, we still did the 'restricted movement'. I think most people on here will be responsible.

On another note, has anyone got a link to where they record the incidence of variants in different EU countries? Just want to apply a little science and see why they are still imprisioning EU citizens. The only data I could find was on the UK variant. Total number of cases, cases in the last 28 days etc.

I know it's the most wide spread here, so I'm comparing apples and oranges, but the figure per 100k for Italy is 3, whereas Ireland is 19. I'd like to do the same comparison for the other variants if I can get the data.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/situation-updates/weekly-maps-coordinated-restriction-free-movement

Should be a starting point but each country uses the info differently

Ray Donovan · 06-05-2021 11:44AM

Dr. Em wrote: »

I'm sure there are a lot of responsible travellers on here, but it is discouraging to see many posters focusing on getting around restrictions or planning on doing the bare minimum not to be legally punished. It would help speed up the loosening of restrictions for all of us if there were a greater focus on voluntarily do the maximum to protect our communities and clean up the image of travel, eg. self-isolate for the recommended period, get tested, not go to work, not send kids to school directly after travel, etc.

I want to be able to see my friends and family overseas sometime, and not have to navigate travel bans.

Hilarious. 15 months later and we still cant leave our counties due to a ridiculous NPHET dictatorship and you’re criticising people who want to get the fcuk outta here!! They’ve driven people to the edge of despair.

E.g. pubs open indoors in Newry - May 24th.
Pubs open indooors in Dublin - who the fcuk knows?

Chuck Norris 2021 · 06-05-2021 11:45AM

Dr. Em wrote: »

I'd like to think so. There have been some recent posts encouraging people to go on holiday just before the schools open and not to tell the schools, and other further back asking how to get around self-isolating at all and go straight back to work. This is just fuel for anyone who wants to shut down travel.

They'll always be a few, the same way as there are people in the community having house parties, weddings etc. My sister was on a ferry back to the UK yesterday, and could hear a couple bragging out loud as to how great a wedding party they had. If these people continue to act like ****holes I would be at least hopeful that they'll take advantage of the cheap tests out of Lidl and at least try to test themselves.

Dr. Em · 06-05-2021 11:50AM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Hilarious. 15 months later and we still cant leave our counties due to a ridiculous NPHET dictatorship and you’re criticising people who want to get the fcuk outta here!! They’ve driven people to the edge of despair.

E.g. pubs open indoors in Newry - May 24th.
Pubs open indooors in Dublin - who the fcuk knows?

Where was I criticising anyone who wants to get out? You can travel and still observe all recommended health precautions on return. I am annoyed with anyone who encourages people to go straight back to work or school after travelling without self-isolating or getting tested, because that is just prolonging the restrictions.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 06-05-2021 11:52AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

1. Which eu law and what's the penalties? There's airport specific fines in places for decades already. The airport has it's own byelaws.

2. Again, that's a user here stating that. It's not even agreed yet and the eu has not got that authority. It's still being negotiated at present. The 6 weeks is a suggested lead in time to allow everyone get up and running. It doesn't carry restrictions or penalties.

I'm only quoting previous posts on here so I'd have to dig back to see the exact section. I'm not familiar with the airport specific laws you mention, but my reading of the existing SI is that the fine here is for an uneccessary journey to a port or airport, so that should die out with the domestic travel restrictions. It does not state that the fine is for non essential travel out of Ireland specifically.

There was a vote held on the travel cert, so it is on the way, format etc may not be agreed but it is coming, and it's been stated extremely clearly in media releases that all member states are obliged to accept it (I'd say that was a dig at us).

Dr. Em · 06-05-2021 11:56AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Provided that anyone traveling at that stage is either vaccinated, gets tested on return, or has already had COVID, what would the issue be with someone going to work/school without isolating? The EU stance appears to be that no quarantine should be necessary as long as the above criteria are met. I'd be inclined to trust the EU over our government.

No quarrel with that. There is no guarantee that children will be vaccinated by September though, so putting them straight into school wouldn't be a great idea. For anyone who hasn't been vaccinated, isolating and getting tested on day 5 to make certain no infection was contracted enroute will probably be the responsible thing to do.

Dr. Em · 06-05-2021 11:56AM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

They'll always be a few, the same way as there are people in the community having house parties, weddings etc. My sister was on a ferry back to the UK yesterday, and could hear a couple bragging out loud as to how great a wedding party they had. If these people continue to act like ****holes I would be at least hopeful that they'll take advantage of the cheap tests out of Lidl and at least try to test themselves.

Infuriating.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 06-05-2021 12:02PM

Dr. Em wrote: »

Infuriating.

Incredible. She had come home for the first time since the beginning to see our elderly parents. Fully vaccinated since March, PCR test, drove over to limit contact, self isolation for 5 days, PCR test, and then DIY lateral flow tests every 48 hours, then another PCR to go home. My parents are also vaccinated. She even had to resort to hiding her car around the back of the house incase people saw an english reg and were complaining. And then you have people like that with no regard.....

M_Murphy57 · 06-05-2021 12:09PM

Dr. Em wrote: »

Where was I criticising anyone who wants to get out? You can travel and still observe all recommended health precautions on return. I am annoyed with anyone who encourages people to go straight back to work or school after travelling without self-isolating or getting tested, because that is just prolonging the restrictions.

that was one person who said they DIDNT want travel in August because they WOULD need to quarantine their kids before school. ONE person responded something off the cuff like "it's none of the schools business ". That's not at all the equivalent of people actively planning to send their own kids into school without quarantine (it's the opposite in fact)

Almost no one on this thread ever as far as I can see advocates travelling and then deliberately mixing with the public on return. I think you are seeing what you want to see here.

Vast majority of travellers here just looking to avoid a 2k fine upon leaving not to deliberately try to infect people.

And agree with others who said we've been driven to these measures by an government terrified of making decisions and who set policy based on hysteria on Twitter not scientific facts.

Dr. Em · 06-05-2021 12:11PM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Incredible. She had come home for the first time since the beginning to see our elderly parents. Fully vaccinated since March, PCR test, drove over to limit contact, self isolation for 5 days, PCR test, and then DIY lateral flow tests every 48 hours, then another PCR to go home. My parents are also vaccinated. She even had to resort to hiding her car around the back of the house incase people saw an english reg and were complaining. And then you have people like that with no regard.....

Some nerve of them to be bragging openly. If everyone were as responsible as your sister I would have no problem with all borders being opened right away.

M_Murphy57 · 06-05-2021 12:14PM

Dr. Em wrote: »

Some nerve of them to be bragging openly. If everyone were as responsible as your sister I would have no problem with all borders being opened right away.

Yes ban everything where some people break the rules. Like closing pubs to stop drink driving or closing shops to stop shoplifting instead of dealing better with the rule breakers.

Dr. Em · 06-05-2021 12:16PM

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

I think you are seeing what you want to see here.

.

Quite the opposite: I definitely don't want to see it.

Dr. Em · 06-05-2021 12:18PM

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Yes ban everything where some people break the rules. Like closing pubs to stop drink driving or closing shops to stop shoplifting instead of dealing better with the rule breakers.

I would have no problem with greater enforcement of rule breakers.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 06-05-2021 12:21PM

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Yes ban everything where some people break the rules. Like closing pubs to stop drink driving or closing shops to stop shoplifting instead of dealing better with the rule breakers.

Unfortunately we have a large chunk of society that will never be dealth with, and see the rules as a challenge to be broken. It was so refreshing in Italy last year. If you break the rules there, you get your a** handed to you by the carabinieri

pc7 · 06-05-2021 12:38PM

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

that was one person who said they DIDNT want travel in August because they WOULD need to quarantine their kids before school. ONE person responded something off the cuff like "it's none of the schools business ". That's not at all the equivalent of people actively planning to send their own kids into school without quarantine (it's the opposite in fact)

That was me and I said I hoped we could travel in August, if we could but we would have to be back 14 days before school starts as that is the rule with the school. My issue is if the government drag their feet and we won't get away cause I will only do it if safely. I didn't reply to the 'its none of the schools business' post because I feel it would be irresponsible to breach the schools guidelines and falsely sign a declaration.

I will hope to travel with the kids if it is safe and allowed in August, we will isolate if/as required on return. If it is not possible we will just sit tight.

Lumen · 06-05-2021 12:44PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I mostly agree with you, I just think the 5 day thing even if someone is tested seems excessive. The logical conclusion of that line of reasoning is no one should go to school or work within 5 days of meeting anyone in the off chance they got infected.

People should not be "meeting" anyone indoors at the moment. We're still technically under level 5 restrictions.

06-05-2021 12:52PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

Maybe i’m wrong but i don’t think Spain is on the quarantine list. At least for now anyway :pac:

For 14 days in our houses?

Skippette · 06-05-2021 12:54PM

According to RTE:

Varadkar hopeful for indoor dining return in July

Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said that it is hoped that indoor dining in hospitality can return in July along with small gatherings.

He said that this would be followed by the return of international travel later in July or in August, with possible distinctions between the vaccinated and those who are not and those countries where Covid rates are lower than others.

He said the restoration of the Common Travel Area with Britain also needs to happen this summer.

Think its the 1st time I've seen July mentioned.

Lumen · 06-05-2021 01:00PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

The post I was responding to was talking about when the schools go back in September though.

Ah yeah, but the likely reality is that we'll hit 50% of the population vaccinated around the end of June, cases and hospitalisations will drop to nothing by the end of July, and then August will be fully open for international travel. By September nobody will give a damn about quarantining kids after a negative PCR test.

M_Murphy57 · 06-05-2021 01:06PM

pc7 wrote: »

That was me and I said I hoped we could travel in August, if we could but we would have to be back 14 days before school starts as that is the rule with the school. My issue is if the government drag their feet and we won't get away cause I will only do it if safely. I didn't reply to the 'its none of the schools business' post because I feel it would be irresponsible to breach the schools guidelines and falsely sign a declaration.

I will hope to travel with the kids if it is safe and allowed in August, we will isolate if/as required on return. If it is not possible we will just sit tight.

Similarly I have a flight from Belfast to London booked.

I will follow guidelines on my return re quarantine etc, but I'm legally travelling to the north, following the rules once there but removing the risk of a 2k fine at Dublin airport.

Nothing to do with actively looking to spread disease, it's about the want/need to travel and how that can be done safely.

This thread is for people who want/need to travel, theres a separate thread for people who want to rant about the evils of travel.

06-05-2021 01:08PM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

I'm only quoting previous posts on here so I'd have to dig back to see the exact section. I'm not familiar with the airport specific laws you mention, but my reading of the existing SI is that the fine here is for an uneccessary journey to a port or airport, so that should die out with the domestic travel restrictions. It does not state that the fine is for non essential travel out of Ireland specifically.

There was a vote held on the travel cert, so it is on the way, format etc may not be agreed but it is coming, and it's been stated extremely clearly in media releases that all member states are obliged to accept it (I'd say that was a dig at us).

I know but you are repeating it like its fact and its not. Its unspecified guesses.

In regards the travel cert, again who voted? The eu parliament? thats great for them but they dont decide these things. Its agreed between the countries actual ministers.

Im not looking to argue this stuff, I just think its important that we stick with established information unless specified. Here for example:

"The Council recommendation covers all Member States (except Ireland)" taken from https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_2121

Its all 'recommendations' because thats the commisions job, to make recommendations but not enforce its will. the EU parliament covers certain areas but Ireland retains border control

Heres more:

"The Member States remain responsible for deciding which public health
restrictions can be waived for travellers"

"This Recommendation constitutes a development of the provisions of the Schengen acquis in which Ireland does not take part, in accordance with Council Decision 2002/192/EC ; Ireland is therefore not taking part in its adoption and is not bound by it or subject to its application"

"The legal status of this recommendation as recalled in recitals 13 to 17 is without prejudice of the need for all Member States, in the interest of the proper functioning of the Schengen area, to decide on the lifting of the restriction on non-essential travel into the EU in a coordinated manner"

All from their official report here: https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sites/default/files/pdf/03052021_proposal_council_recommendation_com-2021-232_en.pdf

Im all for the EU, I think Brexit is a serious own goal and would oppose any Irish attempt at similar. Im also desperate for the vaccine and travel to return to normality BUT none of that means that the above isnt reality.

saabsaab · 06-05-2021 01:08PM

Lumen wrote: »

Ah yeah, but the likely reality is that we'll hit 50% of the population vaccinated around the end of June, cases and hospitalisations will drop to nothing by the end of July, and then August will be fully open for international travel. By September nobody will give a damn about quarantining kids after a negative PCR test.

Hopefully it will be a lot more vaccinated by then. Luke O'Neill was warning against opening up too much too soon and cited the Seychelles as a warning. He said they opened up at 50% vaccinated but have had an unexpected surge since.

06-05-2021 01:13PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Hopefully it will be a lot more vaccinated by then. Luke O'Neill was warning against opening up too much too soon and cited the Seychelles as a warning. He said they opened up at 50% vaccinated but have had an unexpected surge since.

But surely if the vulnerable are immune and ICU beds not required, its irelevent?

The entire non vaccinated population could get it, as long as the actual effect isnt serious illness / death it doesnt matter

phester28 · 06-05-2021 01:13PM

I am aware of someone who came from abroad with a negative PCR test and developed covid 3-4 days later. Someone on the fight had it and gave it to this person on the flight they have sine spread it to most of their family and onwards to an as of yet unknown number of people as he decided to ignore the self quarantine rules .

If someone has got the vaccine they can still catch Covid again and can still spread it (different risk profile depending on which Vaccine) It is wrong of people even vaccinated to think they can swan around and ignore the rules until a larger percentage of people have been vaccinated.

Lumen · 06-05-2021 01:14PM

saabsaab wrote: »

Hopefully it will be a lot more vaccinated by then. Luke O'Neill was warning against opening up too much too soon and cited the Seychelles as a warning. He said they opened up at 50% vaccinated but have had an unexpected surge since.

When the Seychelles hit 50% vaxxed they already had a case rate about eight times our current level, and 60% of their doses were Sinopharm.

Higher infection spread + weaker vaccines = surge.

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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