Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

Beasty

First thread here

Threadbans carry over:
Tallyrand
joe exotic
Dante7
monkeybutter
ninebeanrows
Mr. Karate
scamalert
Chuck Norris 2021 - Lifted 13.5.21, reinstated 19/5/21
$hifty
Micky 32 - 25-05-21

RobitTV

'I can feel it coming in the air tonight...oh lord'

Prepare for takeoff.

theguzman

Seatbelts fastened and ready for take off, tray tables in the upright position.

RobitTV

'Ladies and gentlemen this is your captain speaking, due to travel restrictions this aircraft will today land at Knock airport instead of Palma Mallorca international - We expect the journey from Dublin to Knock to take 20 mins, have a safe flight'

faceman

Harsh reality of quarantine are suddenly coming to light. As I said before, travel isn’t all about holidays.

https://www.independent.ie/news/tanaiste-warns-mandatory-hotel-quarantine-will-lead-to-really-hard-cases-with-people-unable-to-leave-or-return-to-ireland-for-family-or-work-reasons-40077339.html

faceman

A few people have shared the examiner’s article about 5,200 people travelling the first week of February most of which were taking holidays. A friend of mine just returned to Spain (he lives in Spain) having spent the past couple of weeks in Ireland for a family emergency. He travelled to Ireland from Spain last week.

In his words; “I don't know what the Irish government are getting those figures from. I travelled from Spain; I was not asked either before I left Spain or when I arrived in Dublin if I arriving back from a holiday. While the plane was over 3/4 full, the majority of the flight appeared to be non-Irish and the same for the return flight”

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

Nope. Never said any of that. . I never said anything about vaccinated person being immune or not.



Just pointed out that even if a person is vaccinated, they will still be required to quarantine until enough people in the destination are vaccinated. Because, as far as the destination is concerned, they could still be carrying it and won't want the traveller waltzing in and going around wherever.

Are you serious? This is exactly what you said:

Donald Trump wrote: »

A person being vaccinated only means that if they get infected with the virus, their symptoms will be less. There are some claims that vaccines reduced transmission to a third, but it does not eliminate it.



Your being vaccinated simply means that if you come, then you are unlikely to end up in one of the ICU beds here. .

Your words. So do you take that back? Was it just a lie?

Taken from old thread because I would really like an answer from mr Trump

faceman

faceman wrote: »

Harsh reality of quarantine are suddenly coming to light. As I said before, travel isn’t all about holidays.

https://www.independent.ie/news/tanaiste-warns-mandatory-hotel-quarantine-will-lead-to-really-hard-cases-with-people-unable-to-leave-or-return-to-ireland-for-family-or-work-reasons-40077339.html

It needed be so difficult. Quarantine in your own home if you live here ffs!

faceman

faceman wrote: »

A few people have shared the examiner’s article about 5,200 people travelling the first week of February most of which were taking holidays. A friend of mine just returned to Spain (he lives in Spain) having spent the past couple of weeks in Ireland for a family emergency. He travelled to Ireland from Spain last week.

In his words; “I don't know what the Irish government are getting those figures from. I travelled from Spain; I was not asked either before I left Spain or when I arrived in Dublin if I arriving back from a holiday. While the plane was over 3/4 full, the majority of the flight appeared to be non-Irish and the same for the return flight”

So did I and again, never asked

Coybig_

It's almost as if when you try to deflect so hard onto an issue that you know is a complete non-issue, you run the risk of making things impossible for the genuine people.


Just to punish the insanely minute few who are going away for a holiday. Who by the way, all have proof of negative tests for f*ck sake. There is 99 percent compliance with travel testing. The absolute state of these buffoons.

RobitTV

Irish Times:

1. Michael Martin has said that a “prolonged period” of suppression was required. A senior Government source said the new ‘Living with Covid’ plan, and the planned changes to commence on March 5th, would not result in any easing of Level 5 restrictions restrictions, save in the key sectors of education and construction.
   
2. Enhanced restrictions on personal freedoms will extend into June, far beyond the March 5 review date previously announced by the Government, the Tánaiste has warned.
   
3. Restrictions will continue right into April and possibly to the beginning of May

Plumbthedepths

Passport issue and renewal suspended until travel restrictions lifted.

Coybig_

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Passport issue and renewal suspended until travel restrictions lifted.

This is disgusting.

RobitTV

Now this is something that both sides of the argument can agree is totally unacceptable.

They have now suspended for the long term future issuing passports and renewal. This is simply a new level of nonsense. You need passports for many reasons, not just travel matters. Proof of identity being the main one.

timeToLive

When is the next election?

RobitTV

timeToLive wrote: »

When is the next election?

I think they are going to suspend democracy next.

gmisk

timeToLive wrote: »

When is the next election?

Who are you planning to vote for?
Majority of opposition want if anything tighter restrictions.... sooo

I regurgitate the news

gmisk wrote: »

Who are you planning to vote for?
Majority of opposition want if anything tighter restrictions.... sooo

To be honest, I reckon the majority of the country wants tighter restrictions. The economic reality of this will kick in eventually in my opinion

Plumbthedepths

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

To be honest, I reckon the majority of the country wants tighter restrictions. The economic reality of this will kick in eventually in my opinion

Majority of SF's support base is wasters who wouldn't know work if it introduced itself with a cover letter, they'll still get the Dole. It's the workers who will feel the pinch.

I regurgitate the news

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Majority of SF's support base is wasters who wouldn't know work if it introduced itself with a cover letter, they'll still get the Dole. It's the workers who will feel the pinch.

I don't know about that. Lots of working people support the shinners but I don't know if they support them for what they represent or what they used to represent.

Once the financial pain exceeds the perceived fear of losing someone from this virus things will change

Fann Linn

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Majority of SF's support base is wasters who wouldn't know work if it introduced itself with a cover letter, they'll still get the Dole. It's the workers who will feel the pinch.

Shinners living in your head.
LP, SD, Indos all looking for tighter lockdown. From what I can see the only ones who aren't are the Healy Rae's.

Yapamillias

I haven't been back in Ireland for a few years now and recently came back. I was in the States and Germany and both places had their ups and downs in terms of how people were adhering to things on a practical level.

I have been trying to follow the Irish rules and regs and facts and figures since I got back so If I say something incorrect then don't dogpile on me.


Pros
- People seem to be wearing masks and distancing where I am from. Family pods are keeping to themselves (I personally don't know any people flaunting rules)

- numbers are lowering

- Its not raining as much as I expected...silver lining

Cons
- National messaging is very pessimistic. It seems to be deliberate to only focus on the numbers that suit them to keep us worried. I think Leo has said that 'we should be worried'. This constant fear mongering and selective news has an impact on people that are not living but merely surviving through this. My dad has zero clue and hes just locked up at home because hes much older.

- Lots of jobs for healthcare assistants and caregivers are advertised.

- I haven't seen any advertising for public mental health for people. Maybe it isn't broadcasted on the media I watch but the mental health bill are the end of all of this is going to be one that we did not account for. We talk about the toll it is taking. We hear about it from the people that govern but I think they underestimate it. They are working. They are busy. Their day is moving pretty fast and they are able to see the process from getting from thought A to legislation B. Time passes much more slowly for the majority of people in limbo. It makes sense that they are breaking up the lockdowns into dates that they will reevaluate after a few weeks or months because psychologically it is much easier to accept for people when you have a time frame. I still think the bitter medicine we have to take now could be sweetened up. Talk about the things that are going well a little more.

- Making travel harder for people doesn't do much other than limit it for people that are willing to pay the fine or have some essential reason for going. The hotel quarantine ideas are fine. There just seems to be a reactive decision making process to everything. I was watching the Korean quarantine situation since April and was set to go over there but for some flight cancellation. We had such a relaxed travel policy that when I was coming back here in the Summer that I had a harder time getting into the bank than a non Irish person did getting through Dublin. The PCR testing should have been a given as early as we could implement it. Paying 2k for hotels or fines is a scare tactic to stop people from travel. If they wanted people not to travel then banning travel would be the play. The monetary fines are just stronger suggestions than something more concrete. Maybe we could have tracking apps for people that will be quarantining at home like in Korea? That way irish returning from home can be accounted for while non nationals can stay in the hotel.

- The numbers for contractions of Covid in hospitals seem pretty high. I know that even now not all doctors are even vaccinated. Surely they would have been the first to get the jab. A lot of healthcare workers out sick or being asked to work with pending covid tests.

- Regarding travel which is the main point of the thread. I think travel is not the main cause of the spread as much as the lack of system in place for when people return. We demonize people that want to leave but its only because its strongly advised not to. If people had to test and quarantine and retest then they are of no danger to anyone when they enter the country no? I am open to differing opinions of course. The thread is for discourse and discussion.

Sorry about the block of text...

Beasty

Stick to discussing travel, and not wider political points

Donald Trump

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Are you serious? This is exactly what you said:




Your words. So do you take that back? Was it just a lie?

Taken from old thread because I would really like an answer from mr Trump

Jesus Christ. I already explained it to you https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116237363&postcount=9862


If you are still having issues then you better point out what I said that has your knickers in a twist.



This is the sentence that you highlighted and so I presume this is the knickers tightening one

A person being vaccinated only means that if they get infected with the virus, their symptoms will be less

Please feel free to fill in the blank

A person being vaccinated only means that if they get infected with the virus, their symptoms will be _______

A) Less
Greater
C) Equal


What do you think the purpose of a vaccination is? To enhance the symptoms? To make no change to them? You seem to have fierce difficulty with the apparently revolutionary statement that a vaccination would lead to less symptoms in future.


As for the taking it and passive aggressively copying and pasting the post again, after I had already responded to it on the old thread, just because there is a new thread with a fresh front page, all I can advise is to get a life for yourself.

BiggJim

I'm off to Portugal see the parents in Portugal in May, as long as this proposed 2k fine doesn't come in the meantime.

I regurgitate the news

BiggJim wrote: »

I'm off to Portugal see the parents in Portugal in May, as long as this proposed 2k fine doesn't come in the meantime.

Forget the 2,000 fine...it could be prison time like it is in Britain. Only ten years though.

Thank goodness for our leaders. They really really care.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/lying-on-arrival-could-mean-10-years-in-prison-in-england-england-matt-hancock-government-country-citizens-b1799932.html

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

Jesus Christ. I already explained it to you https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116237363&postcount=9862


If you are still having issues then you better point out what I said that has your knickers in a twist.



This is the sentence that you highlighted and so I presume this is the knickers tightening one



Please feel free to fill in the blank



A) Less
Greater
C) Equal


What do you think the purpose of a vaccination is? To enhance the symptoms? To make no change to them? You seem to have fierce difficulty with the apparently revolutionary statement that a vaccination would lead to less symptoms in future.


As for the taking it and passive aggressively copying and pasting the post again, after I had already responded to it on the old thread, just because there is a new thread with a fresh front page, all I can advise is to get a life for yourself.

To provide immunity, which is exactly what these ones are designed to do

Why you insist on repeating the lie that vaccinations wont provide immunity but will only reduce symptoms, is beyond me.

So, again, you agree that vaccinations provide immunity in the vast majorty of recipients, yes?

Donald Trump

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

To provide immunity, which is exactly what these ones are designed to do

Why you insist on repeating the lie that vaccinations wont provide immunity but will only reduce symptoms, is beyond me.

So, again, you agree that vaccinations provide immunity in the vast majorty of recipients, yes?

Listen, I had to have this conversation with you before I think. Where you pretend that I said something and then "disprove" it and then try to shift some goalposts. I don't get the point of it. What are you getting out of doing it?



I never said the word immunity in the post you are getting your knickers in a twist about. I pointed this out to you in the old thread. You might have imagined that I said it, or that I said getting corona will make you immune from AIDS or make you able to fly, but I didn't say any of those things.



I only said

A person being vaccinated only means that if they get infected with the virus, their symptoms will be less.

So what is your problem with that? If someone tells you that they are vaccinated, that is all that you know about them - that if they get infected with the virus, their symptoms will be less.

What are you trying to say - that their symptoms will be more? Or that everyone who gets a vaccine will be immune? Or that nobody that gets a vaccine will be immune. None of the three preceding statements are strictly true. Whereas what I said is true. And again, I never said anything about immunity or not. (At the risk of allowing you to play your game of shifting the goalposts, you might want to look up the definition of immunity there btw. You know that if a person becomes "immune", then their symptoms will be less? Which is still perfectly consistent with my statement)



Is it a reading comprehension thing? Or did you really just want an angry-man post on the front of a probably long-running thread? In the latest post, now you say I said that vaccines don't provide immunity. As I said, I don't know what you get out of making stuff up. The ironic thing is that you are accusing me of lies!

poisonated

Quite frankly, I’m embarrassed to be Irish with how disgusting our representatives are acting at the moment.

dalyboy

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

Forget the 2,000 fine...it could be prison time like it is in Britain. Only ten years though.

Thank goodness for our leaders. They really really care.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/lying-on-arrival-could-mean-10-years-in-prison-in-england-england-matt-hancock-government-country-citizens-b1799932.html

In fairness to the UK that 10 year jail sentence will apply to lying on return from the red list countries.
I seriously doubt anyone will actually be served this sentence.
10 year sentence for this “crime” would make the UK a virtual North Korean style governance the accepted status quo.

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Passport issue and renewal suspended until travel restrictions lifted.

What?? Any link

poisonated

gansi wrote: »

What?? Any link

https://www.dfa.ie/passports/

Until level 5 is lifted at least.

Richard Hillman

I'm going bikepacking around Europe this summer, and there ain't nothing stopping me. And I'm not coming home unless the country is free again

Del Griffith

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Passport issue and renewal suspended until travel restrictions lifted.

An absolute disgrace.

Between this and the begrudgery tax it just shows how the government have completely lost it.

Bare in mind that every traveller needs a negative test in fly anyway, a common sense measure that wasn't in place for the often sited numbers that landed in Ireland at Christmas.

All this is to deter healthy, covid free people from travelling. Utterly ridiculous.

Fann Linn

Del Griffith wrote: »

An absolute disgrace.

Between this and the begrudgery tax it just shows how the government have completely lost it.

Bare in mind that every traveller needs a negative test in fly anyway, a common sense measure that wasn't in place for the often sited numbers that landed in Ireland at Christmas.

All this is to deter healthy, covid free people from travelling. Utterly ridiculous.

That restriction is there since before the end of Christmas 2020. I applied for my wife online in early Jan, my €100 was accepted and when everything was uploaded I got a follow up email basically saying that during level 5 nothing would be processed however if they needed follow up info or documentation they would let me know but to send nothing in by post for now.

I'd say myself once 5 is dropped they'll start processing, just that the backlog will slowly start increasing similar to driving tests, licensing etc.

scouserstation

I think the government have possibly shot themselves in the foot here, with the 500 euro people were travelling while factoring in the fine as part of their holiday costs, now youl not only have non compliance but people refusing to pay the fine also, and I wouldn't be too sure that this fine has a sound legal standing, it will be interesting to see what happens the first person that decides to challenge this in court that's for sure,
Some people Looking at what's being done in the UK but don't seem to realise that the measures they are bringing in over there are TEMPORARY over here we are talking about these restrictions until 2022 or even later, and Varadkar was quoted last week stating these measures could go on indefinitely, its looking like you won't be able to travel out of this country for a very long time, let that sink in for a moment

faceman

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

So did I and again, never asked

I’m guessing that they’re guessing?! They must be assuming that anyone travelling from Spain or other typical holiday destinations are tourists? It’s bizarre. Then again they can’t even get the daily covid numbers correct so I guess we shouldn’t be surprised

faceman

Yapamillias wrote: »

I haven't been back in Ireland for a few years now and recently came back. I was in the States and Germany and both places had their ups and downs in terms of how people were adhering to things on a practical level.

I have been trying to follow the Irish rules and regs and facts and figures since I got back so If I say something incorrect then don't dogpile on me.

I edited your post for brevity in my reply. Your observations are fairly spot on, particularly around the negative messaging and non existent mental health supports. Jack Lambert spoke about the negative messaging on Broadsheet.ie last week.

The mental health thing is a grave concern. If this is how they handle mental health in a prolonged major crisis there is zero hope of any future investment in mental health when this is all over.

poisonated

poisonated wrote: »

https://www.dfa.ie/passports/

Until level 5 is lifted at least.

Level 5 will be lifted in April at the latest I would think

angel eyes 2012

poisonated wrote: »

https://www.dfa.ie/passports/

Until level 5 is lifted at least.

The link doesn't make any reference to travelling for essential health purposes. Given that this jurisdiction doesn't provide adequate health services in various disciplines, can a passport be renewed in such circumstances.

caveat emptor

Someone was saying yesterday that there won't be any EU countries added to the red list. I said I wouldn't be so sure due to what's going on in Austria. I think regards travel it's best to assume things can change quite quickly and plan accordingly.
Looks to be changing quite quickly.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1359779773694828546?s=20

faceman

Thought I'd give you yet another update from Spain's Costa Blanca region. We are in a de facto lockdown of sorts now for a few weeks. 10pm curfew is still in place, hospitality is closed bar take away as are gyms and leisure. All retail is open including hairdressers and barbers but non essential retail must close at 6pm each day. All retail is closed on Sundays. Masks now have to be worn on beaches and while exercising outdoors between 10am and 7pm. No social house visits are permitted and you can only meet 1 person from outside your household in public.

At weekends, you cannot leave your municipality (for most people this means their city) from 3pm to 6am Monday morning. This means if your girlfriend/boyfriend lives in another city you cannot visit them at the weekend during those times unless children are involved. No one is allowed to enter or leave the Valencia region by car or train.

All of this is due to last till February 15th but the government indicated this week it will likely extend to March 1st. All the regional governments are doing their best to be ready for a summer season.

So what does all this look like?
As always with Spain, these measures are checked and enforced. The masks while exercising is a whore. I went for a run once during those hours and never did it again. I am doing all my exercise and training outdoors because the weather permits it. Its a small consolation.

Cases are dropping rapidly, its odd that the plateau that ireland sees during a lockdown isn't seen here. I dont know why that is, the Spanish are divils for family gatherings.

I cant emphasise this enough, there is no international tourism at all. I haven't met any Irish tourists since Christmas. (British tourists are still banned from entering Spain). The coastal towns are that usually popular with tourists all year round are empty. I dont know for sure but I guess the age profile in my town averages with older people so people are well behaved. There is a reluctance from people to be welcoming tourists at this point, particular Irish tourists given the rates at Christmas. The current messaging on fines in Ireland etc is giving an impression to people that Ireland is a dangerous place.

The media is less doom and gloom than Ireland. Focus and anger is squarely on the vaccine rollout. There is rarely a mention of the impact of international travel in the media. While the government is singing the Sound of Music during their press briefings they tend to line their briefings with messages of hope.

gmisk

20 more countries to be added to Ireland's mandatory hotel quarantine list https://jrnl.ie/5351005

faceman

caveat emptor wrote: »

Someone was saying yesterday that there won't be any EU countries added to the red list. I said I wouldn't be so sure due to what's going on in Austria. I think regards travel it's best to assume things can change quite quickly and plan accordingly.
Looks to be changing quite quickly.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1359779773694828546?s=20

That was me and this is a eye brow raising development. I’m not familiar with what’s going on in Austria, is there a driving factor as to why travellers from Austria need to be quarantine in a detention centre hotel?

I’m guessing it’s a more an disincentive for would be skiers

faceman

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

The link doesn't make any reference to travelling for essential health purposes. Given that this jurisdiction doesn't provide adequate health services in various disciplines, can a passport be renewed in such circumstances.

Passports can still be issued for essential needs. There’s details on their website of how to apply. It’s pretty strict, not open to abuse

The passport office has always been closed when Ireland was in level 5

caveat emptor

faceman wrote: »

That was me and this is a eye brow raising development. I’m not familiar with what’s going on in Austria, is there a driving factor as to why travellers from Austria need to be quarantine in a detention centre hotel?

I’m guessing it’s a more an disincentive for would be skiers

Unfortunately there is a very significant outbreak of the immunity escaping South African variant which could have been caused by Austrian golfers in S.A or South African skiers depending on which rumour you subscribe to.

There were Irish people who were caught there 12 days ago breaching local covid rules who came for a skiing holiday.

It's as if 2020 mid term skiing holidays never happened in some people's minds.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/irish-among-those-in-breach-of-lockdown-rules-at-austrian-ski-resort-1.4472198

faceman

caveat emptor wrote: »

Unfortunately there is a very significant outbreak of the immunity escaping South African variant which could have been caused by Austrian golfers in S.A or South African skiers depending on which rumour you subscribe to.

There were Irish people who were caught there 12 days ago breaching local covid rules who came for a skiing holiday.

It's as if 2020 mid term skiing holidays never happened in some people's minds.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/irish-among-those-in-breach-of-lockdown-rules-at-austrian-ski-resort-1.4472198

Will be interesting to follow Austria as test case. How will EU react and how long will the requirement for travellers from Austria to be in the detention centre hotels stay in place

monkeybutter

faceman wrote: »

Thought I'd give you yet another update from Spain's Costa Blanca region. We are in a de facto lockdown of sorts now for a few weeks. 10pm curfew is still in place, hospitality is closed bar take away as are gyms and leisure. All retail is open including hairdressers and barbers but non essential retail must close at 6pm each day. All retail is closed on Sundays. Masks now have to be worn on beaches and while exercising outdoors between 10am and 7pm. No social house visits are permitted and you can only meet 1 person from outside your household in public.

At weekends, you cannot leave your municipality (for most people this means their city) from 3pm to 6am Monday morning. This means if your girlfriend/boyfriend lives in another city you cannot visit them at the weekend during those times unless children are involved. No one is allowed to enter or leave the Valencia region by car or train.

All of this is due to last till February 15th but the government indicated this week it will likely extend to March 1st. All the regional governments are doing their best to be ready for a summer season.

So what does all this look like?
As always with Spain, these measures are checked and enforced. The masks while exercising is a whore. I went for a run once during those hours and never did it again. I am doing all my exercise and training outdoors because the weather permits it. Its a small consolation.

Cases are dropping rapidly, its odd that the plateau that ireland sees during a lockdown isn't seen here. I dont know why that is, the Spanish are divils for family gatherings.

I cant emphasise this enough, there is no international tourism at all. I haven't met any Irish tourists since Christmas. (British tourists are still banned from entering Spain). The coastal towns are that usually popular with tourists all year round are empty. I dont know for sure but I guess the age profile in my town averages with older people so people are well behaved. There is a reluctance from people to be welcoming tourists at this point, particular Irish tourists given the rates at Christmas. The current messaging on fines in Ireland etc is giving an impression to people that Ireland is a dangerous place.

The media is less doom and gloom than Ireland. Focus and anger is squarely on the vaccine rollout. There is rarely a mention of the impact of international travel in the media. While the government is singing the Sound of Music during their press briefings they tend to line their briefings with messages of hope.

dunno how right you are on the plateau,



but looking at worldometers.info cases in spain peaking at say just 30-35k and are now around 20k



and in ireland they peaked at say 5-6k (ignore the backlog) and are now around 800 across similar tie periods mid jan to now



other than that, it seems pretty similar in terms of the lockdown

faceman

monkeybutter wrote: »

dunno how right you are on the plateau,



but looking at worldometers.info cases in spain peaking at say just 30-35k and are now around 20k



and in ireland they peaked at say 5-6k (ignore the backlog) and are now around 800 across similar tie periods mid jan to now



other than that, it seems pretty similar in terms of the lockdown

Spain has a population of 50m Ireland has a population of less than 5m

By plateau I was referring to Ireland’s daily cases currently sticking around the 1,000 mark

monkeybutter

faceman wrote: »

Spain has a population of 50m Ireland has a population of less than 5m

By plateau I was referring to Ireland’s daily cases currently sticking around the 1,000 mark

what has the population of Spain go to do with it

you said the case numbers are falling rapidly


irelands aren't


but the opposite is true, they are higher than the end of jan



i mean 50/5 is 10



20,000 / 1000(rounding up our figures) is 20

they are higher per person right, is that what you were trying to get at?

faceman

monkeybutter wrote: »

what has the population of Spain go to do with it

you said the case numbers are falling rapidly


irelands aren't


but the opposite is true, they are higher than the end of jan



i mean 50/5 is 10



20,000 / 1000(rounding up our figures) is 20

they are higher per person right, is that what you were trying to get at?

Either you're not following my point or I dont understand what you're talking about. Or both.