Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - Read OP

whomitconcerns · 05-05-2021 12:57pm #1

What can be done to try change these attitudes before they get too much more prevalent..These guys know that they cant be touched and even if they are will be out soon anyway!

Mod - This topic can be discussed in general terms but do not discuss an ongoing court case

Beasty wrote: »

No more posts encouraging violence, or else there will be threadbans and/or cards

Allinall · 05-05-2021 12:59pm

Proper parenting would be a good start.

How you get that is above my pay grade.

05-05-2021 1:03pm

I would suggest an overhaul of the juvenile criminal system.
The age of criminal responsibility should be lowered back to 7, as it was years ago.
Also, the chances they get to receive cautions should be strictly kept to two.
Once you have received your cautions, you are then off to the courts for any further crimes committed.

punisher5112 · 05-05-2021 1:03pm

Absolutely shocking but not surprised there are some serious amount of evil bastardos among us .

Dublin city is a cess pool, we need to see Garda presence, rare if none at all on the beat and young gang's everywhere.

hurikane · 05-05-2021 1:05pm

Sterilisation

stoneill · 05-05-2021 1:05pm

Parents of underage thugs should pay the fines and do the time for the runts they brought into the world.

gluppers · 05-05-2021 1:07pm

Scum. Lock up the parents too. Also why little outrage about this on social media?? The murder of the woman in London (Sarah Everard (RIP)) got much more attention on Irish social media

cruizer101 · 05-05-2021 1:09pm

Allinall wrote: »

Proper parenting would be a good start.

How you get that is above my pay grade.

A good start would be by actually teaching it.

It is one of the most important things we do, as parents are the main influence on how children will turn out, by extension that is how our society will turn out in the future.
Yet we are never taught anything about good parenting.
I believe the majority want their children to succeed, obviously there are some exceptions.

It is easy for some to say it should be common sense but if you have had generations of bad parenting you've individuals who have very little concept of what good parenting is. And before people jump on me, I'm not excusing anything by people saying they have had hard/bad upbringing, people should be punished, but that alone will not solve the issues.

Parenting classes should be provided by the government for all, and to get people to go, link it to child support. You want child support you do the classes. Even if it is only a few days a year I believe it could make a big difference.

xzanti · 05-05-2021 1:11pm

The lack of regard for life among certain teenage groups is beyond frightening.

The video of the woman being tripped and subsequently falling onto the train tracks in Howth will haunt me for a long time.

Thank God she was pulled out without injury or death.

They knew exactly what they were doing. Pure, unbridled evil imho.

It's almost a competition among them to see how far they'll go to prove how scummy they are.

05-05-2021 1:11pm

Children's allowance payments that aren't capped encourage people who can't afford to have kids, to have kids. The parents don't particularly care about the kids, they just want the money.

Kids are neglected and grow up to be scum. Realise, at about 11 years of age, they are untouchable in terms of the law. Fall in with the wrong crowd and start in drugs and delivering/dealing as they can't be punished and once in that circle of people, they all egg each other on to do more depraved stuff as it's all just a bit of craic.

Keep in mind, even adults in Ireland don't really face the consequences of their actions.

Meanwhile, the poor chaps will have signed up for the housing list (where having an anti-social record and criminal convictions don't slow you down getting a free house) and you'll have your medical card, social welfare, etc. when you're an adult, and the kids know all this, as they've been told it over and over again by the adults around them.

Once someone goes into "that" side of the economy, and starts with never working a real job, dealing drugs, acting like a thug and getting away with it all, it's incredibly difficult to get them back on the 'right' side of things at all.

There is no effort by the Gardai or Councils to tackle the issues or hit the scumbags where it hurts, so there is no fear of repercussion, as there rarely is any repercussion to fear.

gmisk · 05-05-2021 1:14pm

stoneill wrote: »

Parents of underage thugs should pay the fines and do the time for the runts they brought into the world.

Good luck with getting the fines from their parents...you honestly think they will be working? Lol
Doubt it's legal to take from their welfare either zzz

mrslancaster · 05-05-2021 1:20pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

A good start would be by actually teaching it.

It is one of the most important things we do, as parents are the main influence on how children will turn out, by extension that is how our society will turn out in the future.
Yet we are never taught anything about good parenting.
I believe the majority want their children to succeed, obviously there are some exceptions.

It is easy for some to say it should be common sense but if you have had generations of bad parenting you've individuals who have very little concept of what good parenting is. And before people jump on me, I'm not excusing anything by people saying they have had hard/bad upbringing, people should be punished, but that alone will not solve the issues.

Parenting classes should be provided by the government for all, and to get people to go, link it to child support. You want child support you do the classes. Even if it is only a few days a year I believe it could make a big difference.

good parents can end up with bad kids no matter what they do. If a family has 3/4/5 kids & one gets into trouble or commits serious offences but the others are all law abiding citizens, then why would the parents be accused of being a bad influence or failing in their parenting role?

punisher5112 · 05-05-2021 1:20pm

I've had knives pulled by teenagers while in work, they have zero fear.

Sartre. · 05-05-2021 1:22pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

I've had knives pulled by teenagers while in work, they have zero fear.

Most of these incidents are an offence but what's at the end of it if they're charged

Not a lot usually and they know it, the ones involved

FileNotFound · 05-05-2021 1:24pm

Sartre. wrote: »

Most of these incidents are an offence but what's at the end of it if they're charged

Not a lot usually and they know it, the ones involved

A truly hard and horrible beating would soon teach some manners...

I am at the point where I feel pain is the only true teacher that will work for some of these, pain and if they don't learn even more pain.

Sartre. · 05-05-2021 1:27pm

FileNotFound wrote: »

A truly hard and horrible beating would soon teach some manners...

I am at the point where I feel pain is the only true teacher that will work for some of these, pain and if they don't learn even more pain.

There's a lot wrong in this country with the youth justice system

I've had a lot of involvement

One of the big screwups is the Garda time being wasted on marijuana

It's driving the youth onto more dangerous stuff and if they get court they have to stay off it for the drug tests and so turn to alcohol

KildareP · 05-05-2021 1:27pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Absolutely shocking but not surprised there are some serious amount of evil bastardos among us .

Dublin city is a cess pool, we need to see Garda presence, rare if none at all on the beat and young gang's everywhere.

I'm not surprised the Gardaí don't have a presence - they aren't backed up by the courts even if they did.

You have people with tens of previous convictions freely walking the streets on suspended sentences, and on the odd occasion when they do see the inside of a jail cell, seem to be let out early on "good behaviour".

There's nothing to deter someone starting off down the road this teen has set out on. They don't care. They know they don't need to care. They have free reign to do as they please without repercussion from the law.

Ten of Swords · 05-05-2021 1:32pm

FileNotFound wrote: »

A truly hard and horrible beating would soon teach some manners...

I am at the point where I feel pain is the only true teacher that will work for some of these, pain and if they don't learn even more pain.

Indeed, if it's one thing that history has taught us over and over again it's that violence is always the solution to society's problems :rolleyes:

If this thread starts going down a rabbit hole with nonsense like this it'll be closed immediately

jimmycrackcorm · 05-05-2021 1:32pm

The real problem is how this situation is allowed to arise. Because when a teenager commits minor crimes, there is a soft-touch legal response and they basically have no repercussions for what they do. So is it any wonder that their criminal behaviour is allowed to develop?

dogbert27 · 05-05-2021 1:34pm

It's not just Ireland.

The rise in teenage violence in the U.K. is horrifying too with very little media spotlight. It's forgotten as soon as reported as it's so frequent.

Similarly in Finland there's a case of teenagers killing another teen. Most teenagers in Helsinki admit to carrying a knife for safety, unknown to their parents.

I'm sounding like an old crank now but I really do believe that the level of violence in video games and tv has de-sensitised youth to reality.

Parents are to blame too. I was in Game Stop and a kid about 12 went to buy Grand Theft Auto. The salesman refused to sell it to him and the kids parents came over and gave out to the salesman! They then bought the game themselves.

cruizer101 · 05-05-2021 1:35pm

mrslancaster wrote: »

good parents can end up with bad kids no matter what they do. If a family has 3/4/5 kids & one gets into trouble or commits serious offences but the others are all law abiding citizens, then why would the parents be accused of being a bad influence or failing in their parenting role?

I never said that.

Obviously there will be exceptions but on average as a nation if we had better parenting skills there should be less troublesome children/teenagers.

05-05-2021 1:36pm

bubblypop wrote: »

The age of criminal responsibility should be lowered back to 7, as it was years ago.

How would this benefit us?

frozenfrozen · 05-05-2021 1:37pm

dogbert27 wrote: »

It's not just Ireland.

The rise in teenage violence in the U.K. is horrifying too with very little media spotlight. It's forgotten as soon as reported as it's so frequent.

Similarly in Finland there's a case of teenagers killing another teen. Most teenagers in Helsinki admit to carrying a knife for safety, unknown to their parents.

I'm sounding like an old crank now but I really do believe that the level of violence in video games and tv has de-sensitised youth to reality.

Parents are to blame too. I was in Game Stop and a kid about 12 went to buy Grand Theft Auto. The salesman refused to sell it to him and the kids parents came over and gave out to the salesman! They then bought the game themselves.

You're hardly saying this is a result of grand theft auto?

KeepItLight · 05-05-2021 1:38pm

For your general young offender/delinquent etc.. there should be something akin to a three strikes law where if upon your third offense you get a long mandatory prison sentence.

It's a disgrace that we have court cases for people with dozens of prior convictions, and I personally value the removal of these people from society where they can't cause any more pain to innocent people, and a sense of justice to the victims, over endless slapped wrists and chances of rehabilitation.

toffeeshel · 05-05-2021 1:38pm

When the parents don’t even bother to accompany the accused to court - it tells you all you need to know

WrenBoy · 05-05-2021 1:41pm

The loss of a sense of community, low self respect and having no positive role models in their lives seems to me to be quite a large driver of these disaffected youths, who then go on to raise disaffected youths.
How that is remedied is the million Euro question.

dogbert27 · 05-05-2021 1:41pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

You're hardly saying this is a result of grand theft auto?

The point was regarding the bad parenting.

KeepItLight · 05-05-2021 1:44pm

WrenBoy wrote: »

The loss of a sense of community, low self respect and having no positive role models in their lives seems to me to be quite a large driver of these disaffected youths, who then go on to raise disaffected youths.
How that is remedied is the million Euro question.

the lack of a role model is a huge one, but the level of cynicism is so high you'd wonder how you'd ever fix this. Especially considering those that don't share the same level of cynicism are likely to be ostracized themselves

05-05-2021 1:49pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How would this benefit us?

These kids are not subject to normal law but juvenile detention except in the case of murder. I think 7 is too young though.

2ndcoming · 05-05-2021 1:49pm

Old Man Yells At Cloud

frozenfrozen · 05-05-2021 1:51pm

2ndcoming wrote: »

Old Man Yells At Cloud

how's it old man yells at cloud when there are gangs of 14 year olds with knives?

05-05-2021 1:52pm

We need more prisons.

Fandymo · 05-05-2021 1:57pm

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Indeed, if it's one thing that history has taught us over and over again it's that violence is always the solution to society's problems :rolleyes:

If this thread starts going down a rabbit hole with nonsense like this it'll be closed immediately

There has to be some form of discipline though. It doesn't have to be into the back of a van and battered. Light slapping should never have been banned. At that age kids NEED to realise right from wrong. There is no fear in kids these days.

tayto lover · 05-05-2021 1:58pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I would suggest an overhaul of the juvenile criminal system.
The age of criminal responsibility should be lowered back to 7, as it was years ago.
Also, the chances they get to receive cautions should be strictly kept to two.
Once you have received your cautions, you are then off to the courts for any further crimes committed.

That won’t work imo.
Many children amass cautions for offences committed on the same day. Some of them commit a series of offences in a week if there is a family trauma ie marriage break-up, death, addiction problem etc.
If you were to prosecute then their solicitor could argue that they didn’t have the chance to rehabilitate.
Maybe prosecute along the three strike rule but over a period of time and involve all services at the same time as the initial caution.
Also there is a fantastic Crime Awareness Programme in some of the Youthreach centres which could be modified to suit Primary Schools.

dhaughton99 · 05-05-2021 2:00pm

WrenBoy wrote: »

The loss of a sense of community, low self respect and having no positive role models in their lives seems to me to be quite a large driver of these disaffected youths, who then go on to raise disaffected youths.
How that is remedied is the million Euro question.

I’m in a school in one of the deprived areas you constantly hear about and for years in one of the rooms, they had a poster up of McGregor kicking someone with blood showing as a positive influence. It’s been changed to Ali this year.

05-05-2021 2:01pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How would this benefit us?

Well, firstly children don't come into the system until they are 12. Unfortunately, a lot of kids are already offending at this stage and are used to nothing being done.
They then start to receive cautions.
I believe the earlier that intervention happens with juvenile offenders the better.

05-05-2021 2:01pm

gluppers wrote: »

Scum. Lock up the parents too. Also why little outrage about this on social media?? The murder of the woman in London (Sarah Everard (RIP)) got much more attention on Irish social media

Piece of scum perpetrator doesn’t fit the Irish media’s virtue signaling narrative so they choose not to report on it.

Can be sure if the perpetrator was from the “Leafy suburbs” it’d never be out of the news.

Politicians and media figures think they’ll be perceived as heartless capitalists if they go after clear problem areas so the issue is allowed to fester to its present state. Gangs of youths roaming the inner city, intimidating and assaulting with impunity.

Thelonious Monk · 05-05-2021 2:02pm

It was just as bad 20 odd years ago by the way, there's something rotten in the state of Ireland

K.Flyer · 05-05-2021 2:02pm

From how I see it, Ireland is a very soft touch when it comes to consequences for criminal behaviour.
The Garda are fighting an uphill battle with very little serious hard line follow through from the courts / prison system when they arrest people.
The amount of videos out there showing the vicious feral behaviour from young offenders up to adults is horrific and disgusting and no there is no real deterrent for their actions.
Parent blaming is fair to a point, but still these offenders know themselves what is right from wrong and they themselves should directly suffer the consequences of their own actions.
As has already been said, Nobody should be getting multiple chances, walking free with 20, 30, 50+ criminal convictions, yet people get locked up for much much less.
3 Hail Marys, a hug, lollipops and pats on the head "...now be a good little kid and look after yer mammy" hasn't fcukin' worked!
It's time that someone in the judicial system grew a pair and start playing hard ball with these animals and their scummy behaviour.
Build more prisons out in the middle of nowhere and start locking people up.
And before anyone starts their sh!te about prisons don't work, Fcuk them. Come back with that opinion when you have seen people's faces after being slashed wide open, kicked half to death or murdered.
Get them of the streets!
Make the country safe for law abiding people to enjoy.
If they start getting locked up quicker and for longer they might think twice about their behaviour.

EddieN75 · 05-05-2021 2:04pm

These are one of the consequences of becoming a welfare state.

No push to contribute as the state will house and feed you without question

Cilldara_2000 · 05-05-2021 2:06pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

From how I see it, Ireland is a very soft touch when it comes to consequences for criminal behaviour.
The Garda are fighting an uphill battle with very little serious hard line follow through from the courts / prison system when they arrest people.
The amount of videos out there showing the vicious feral behaviour from young offenders up to adults is horrific and disgusting and no real deterrent for their actions.
Parent blaming is fair to a point, but still these offenders know themselves right from wrong and they themselves should directly suffer the consequences of their own actions.
As has already been said, Nobody should be getting multiple chances, walking free with 20, 30, 50+ criminal convictions, yet people get locked up for much much less.
3 Hail Marys, a hug, lollipops and pats on the head "...now be a good little kid and look after yer mammy" hasn't fcukin' worked!
It's time that someone in the judicial system grew a pair and start playing hard ball with these animals and their scummy behaviour.
Build more prisons out in the middle of nowhere and start locking people up.
And before anyone starts their sh!te about prisons don't work, Fcuk them. Come back with that opinion when you have seen people's faces after being slashed wide open, kicked half to death or murdered.
Get them of the streets!
Make the country safe for law abiding people to enjoy.
If they start getting locked up quicker and for longer they might think twice about their behaviour.

This tbh. I'm generally a soft left wing pinko and it might well be the case that for an individual prisoner, prison mightn't work in terms of his/her rehabilitation. But it absolutely works for the rest of society if some young psycho isn't out randomly attacking people.

Thelonious Monk · 05-05-2021 2:07pm

EddieN75 wrote: »

These are one of the consequences of becoming a welfare state.

No push to contribute as the state will house and feed you without question

They're not, Sweden is the ultimate welfare state and kids there aren't feral like they are here.
I don't know what it is but something in our development or lack of development as a society means we have this thuggish class of people that don't exist in other countries in Western Europe except the UK really, not on the same scale.
I suppose most of the poor in the UK were treated like dirt and it was the same here in Ireland, maybe things were better on the continent.
It's intergenerational and I'm not sure how it can be got rid of, there are a lot of angry people out there.

KeepItLight · 05-05-2021 2:10pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

From how I see it, Ireland is a very soft touch when it comes to consequences for criminal behaviour.
The Garda are fighting an uphill battle with very little serious hard line follow through from the courts / prison system when they arrest people.
The amount of videos out there showing the vicious feral behaviour from young offenders up to adults is horrific and disgusting and no there is no real deterrent for their actions.
Parent blaming is fair to a point, but still these offenders know themselves what is right from wrong and they themselves should directly suffer the consequences of their own actions.
As has already been said, Nobody should be getting multiple chances, walking free with 20, 30, 50+ criminal convictions, yet people get locked up for much much less.
3 Hail Marys, a hug, lollipops and pats on the head "...now be a good little kid and look after yer mammy" hasn't fcukin' worked!
It's time that someone in the judicial system grew a pair and start playing hard ball with these animals and their scummy behaviour.
Build more prisons out in the middle of nowhere and start locking people up.
And before anyone starts their sh!te about prisons don't work, Fcuk them. Come back with that opinion when you have seen people's faces after being slashed wide open, kicked half to death or murdered.
Get them of the streets!
Make the country safe for law abiding people to enjoy.
If they start getting locked up quicker and for longer they might think twice about their behaviour.

I think the root of the problem is definitely the legal system and judges.

Economics101 · 05-05-2021 2:10pm

Was the law changed a few years ago to allow attachment of earnings/income for non-payers of fines? How well has this change been implemented (I have my doubts)? This is all part of the culture of total immunity from the consequences of wrongdoing foisted on us by "progressive" types. To make things worse, I have heard it said that the attachment orders cannot be made in respect of welfare payments. If so, no wonder people have no respect for rules.

Witcher · 05-05-2021 2:11pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

They're not, Sweden is the ultimate welfare state and kids there aren't feral like they are here.
I don't know what it is but something in our development or lack of development as a society means we have this thuggish class of people that don't exist in other countries in Western Europe except the UK really, not on the same scale.
I suppose most of the poor in the UK were treated like dirt and it was the same here in Ireland, maybe things were better on the continent.
It's intergenerational and I'm not sure how it can be got rid of, there are a lot of angry people out there.

Complete nonsense, this goes on in every country.

Strumms · 05-05-2021 2:11pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

I've had knives pulled by teenagers while in work, they have zero fear.

What happened to them ?

Did your employer support the Gardai being called ?

Any arrests ?

WrenBoy · 05-05-2021 2:13pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

They're not, Sweden is the ultimate welfare state and kids there aren't feral like they are here.
I don't know what it is but something in our development or lack of development as a society means we have this thuggish class of people that don't exist in other countries in Western Europe except the UK really, not on the same scale.
I suppose most of the poor in the UK were treated like dirt and it was the same here in Ireland, maybe things were better on the continent.
It's intergenerational and I'm not sure how it can be got rid of, there are a lot of angry people out there.

??
Gangs attack each other with grenades and bombs in Sweden. Its a very large problem there, arguably worse than here.

Thelonious Monk · 05-05-2021 2:14pm

Witcher wrote: »

Complete nonsense, this goes on in every country.

It doesn't. I've never been in another city centre were 12 year olds are screaming N*GGER at security guards or running into shops grabbing things and running out again, which I saw just a couple of weeks ago.
They are far worse here than anywhere I've lived anyway.

05-05-2021 2:15pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

They're not, Sweden is the ultimate welfare state and kids there aren't feral like they are here.
I don't know what it is but something in our development or lack of development as a society means we have this thuggish class of people that don't exist in other countries in Western Europe except the UK really, not on the same scale.
I suppose most of the poor in the UK were treated like dirt and it was the same here in Ireland, maybe things were better on the continent.
It's intergenerational and I'm not sure how it can be got rid of, there are a lot of angry people out there.

You should visit parts of Malmö.

Witcher · 05-05-2021 2:15pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It doesn't. I've never been in another city centre were 12 year olds are screaming N*GGER at security guards or running into shops grabbing things and running out again, which I saw just a couple of weeks ago.
They are far worse here than anywhere I've lived anyway.

It does, again...stop talking nonsense.

'I've never seen it so it doesn't happen'

andala · 05-05-2021 2:16pm

The problem is these days nobody seems to be responsible for anything, even when you fall, you demand (and often get) money from insurance. Unless we, as society, implement a system that will reward good behaviour and force the antisocial behaviour to be re-educated, things will only get worse.

I'd suggest keeping child benefit in its present form for up to 3 children and in the form of tax credits for 4th child up. This way you can have more children if you can afford them.

People with criminal record should be on the bottom of housing lists and should have no say in where they get housed.

If your child commits an offence more than twice, your social welfare payment should be docket to pay the damage and both you and your child should do an obligatory course in what it means to be part of society.

Long term unemployed should either be involved in full time upskillng courses or given simple jobs.

Free legal ad should be limited to say 5 times/lifetime.

If your child is always unsupervised and commits numerous offences, you should have them taken away and put in a foster home. Often children who don't have a role model, grow up to perpetuate the cycle of violence/poverty

Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - **Read OP**

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Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - Read OP