Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - **Read OP**

Cilldara_2000

Tommo 76 wrote: »

The Gardai’s hands are somewhat tied by the inept judicial system. They get treated as minors and are just given a warning. They don’t fear the system at all that’s the problem, you see these people with multiple convictions and then the “come from a disadvantaged background etc” line is thrown about and away they go again…

There's scumbags in their 30s and 40s still playing the "sure he had a hard upbringing" card and judges are swallowing it.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Children's allowance payments that aren't capped encourage people who can't afford to have kids, to have kids. The parents don't particularly care about the kids, they just want the money.

Kids are neglected and grow up to be scum. Realise, at about 11 years of age, they are untouchable in terms of the law. Fall in with the wrong crowd and start in drugs and delivering/dealing as they can't be punished and once in that circle of people, they all egg each other on to do more depraved stuff as it's all just a bit of craic.

Keep in mind, even adults in Ireland don't really face the consequences of their actions.

Meanwhile, the poor chaps will have signed up for the housing list (where having an anti-social record and criminal convictions don't slow you down getting a free house) and you'll have your medical card, social welfare, etc. when you're an adult, and the kids know all this, as they've been told it over and over again by the adults around them.

Once someone goes into "that" side of the economy, and starts with never working a real job, dealing drugs, acting like a thug and getting away with it all, it's incredibly difficult to get them back on the 'right' side of things at all.

There is no effort by the Gardai or Councils to tackle the issues or hit the scumbags where it hurts, so there is no fear of repercussion, as there rarely is any repercussion to fear.

Exactly.

And instead of our elected representatives tackling this age old issue and formulating changes... they decide to work on important legislation such as MUP.
Jesus wept.

If you picked the biggest issues we face, you can be sure not a single one were talked about in the Dail this week... its mind boggling.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'd say they're a walk in the park compared to some of the kips we have in Dublin though.

Based on nothing. Pure speculation. Great argument.

Antares35

I think it probably starts way back with the "how dare you accuse my child of (whatever)" from parents. Teachers literally cannot say anything to a pupil now without the mamma (or dadda) bear descending on them like a tonne of bricks. My Johnny would never do something like that blah blah. Kid sees there are no repercussions to bad behaviour, keeps on going. Or, maybe just absent parenting as in the parents are there physically but they don't really give a damn what the kids do either way.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well we're kind of famous for child abuse what does that say about us?

You're on the wind up. There's no way you're serious, based on the last few pages.

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

You're on the wind up. There's no way you're serious, based on the last few pages.

Someone brought up sexual assault in Sweden.
I'm not on the wind up, I think we have rough kids like I've never seen anywhere else except maybe the UK. A different breed that were cultivated through complex social issues over time. You don't agree and that's fine.

mrslancaster

Deleted User wrote: »

....I reckon if you grabbed a teen these days they'd go into shock.

Seriously who'd take that chance? In Dublin anyway....:eek:

EddieN75

WrenBoy wrote: »

The loss of a sense of community, low self respect and having no positive role models in their lives seems to me to be quite a large driver of these disaffected youths, who then go on to raise disaffected youths.
How that is remedied is the million Euro question.

Stop the handouts. If you have nothing to do all day you don't feel part of society. You have no purpose.
These youths are the children of those layabouts and have grown up living that lifestyle.

That's a long term solution. Short term more Gardai on the street and less driving around in the car playing with their phones until shift change

FileNotFound

mrslancaster wrote: »

Seriously who'd take that chance? In Dublin anyway....:eek:

Reality is that doing anything will get one of us in trouble, all the everyday person can do is suffer whatever is happening and report it to the Gardai that can do little more.


It really is a viscous cirlce of kids seeing bad adults and becoming even worse themselves. The use of teens for drug dealing as they cannot be punished is awful common now.


I do think there are many potential solutions but they all have negatives and no politician is willing to make the changes. The idea of someone with 30 convictions getting social welfare still is daft.

briany

There must be an easy win somewhere in Irish politics for someone to say, "Vote for me, and I'll put more Gards on the streets of Dublin." ,seeing as the problem of feral youths is primarily, though not solely, linked to Dublin city and its immediate environs. That is unless the reported incidents of reckless teenage violence, though egregious and alarming, are just not truly of a great enough incidence to make it a top priority for enough voters.

Would a return to Holy Catholic Ireland solve the issue? Where we used to confiscate children from unwed mothers, brutalise young men in reformatories, force everyone to go to mass on a Sunday and have rigid family units? Maybe, but even then, it's not a cost people would pay.

biko

It's tricky.

In Sweden (referenced above in thread) a 16yo and his mates were harassing a 68yo woman and eventually burned her house down and killed her.
The 16yo says it was unintentional to start such a big fire, and perhaps it was.

Should he be charged with murder and have that over his head the rest of his life?

He needs to pay, and pay dearly, but how?

KeepItLight

biko wrote: »

It's tricky.

In Sweden (referenced above in thread) a 16yo and his mates were harassing a 68yo woman and eventually burned her house down and killed her.
The 16yo says it was unintentional to start such a big fire, and perhaps it was.

Should he be charged with murder and have that over his head the rest of his life?

yes

FileNotFound

biko wrote: »

It's tricky.

In Sweden (referenced above in thread) a 16yo and his mates were harassing a 68yo woman and eventually burned her house down and killed her.
The 16yo says it was unintentional to start such a big fire, and perhaps it was.

Should he be charged with murder and have that over his head the rest of his life?

Sadly I think yes - lesson to the rest. Actions are more relevant than intentions in reality.

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/davidhall75/status/1389295260011008000

Seems like common sense. Deduct dole payments/wages. I reckon if this was introduced you'd be amazed just how many 'parents' would discover parenting quick fast when they have less for the booze and the cigarettes.

The problem is no consequences at the end of the day.

Baggly

Deleted User wrote: »

It might not seem popular, but there is some truth to it. My sister would be the stereotype scumbag and also the people she associated with. Nothing tames them quicker than a good hiding.


The truth is, that the current generation were never touched. It simply never happened to them, as that kind of thing had phased out, so much so that I genuinely do not actually think that the youth of today even consider it as a consequence at all.


I reckon if you grabbed a teen these days they'd go into shock.

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Exactly.

And instead of our elected representatives tackling this age old issue and formulating changes... they decide to work on important legislation such as MUP.
Jesus wept.

If you picked the biggest issues we face, you can be sure not a single one were talked about in the Dail this week... its mind boggling.

Mod

Both of you dont post in this thread again.

Quoting a mod warning saying dont go down that rabbit hole TO GO DOWN THAT RABBIT HOLE. Come on lads you are better than that.

biko

Almost all of us managed to get though childhood and teen years without killing or hurting someone.
What makes us special?
A sense of morality?
Better parents?

Witcher

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/davidhall75/status/1389295260011008000

Seems like common sense. Deduct dole payments/wages. I reckon if this was introduced you'd be amazed just how many 'parents' would discover parenting quick fast when they have less for the booze and the cigarettes.

The problem is no consequences at the end of the day.

It's not, it's ****ing moronic and ignorant of the actual situation on the ground with many young offenders.

Populist sh1te talk doesn't solve anything.

greenspurs

Yeh , yeh , yeh..

Theres no prisons to put these little 'gangsta's' so blame the gardai/judiciary all you want. But they have nowhere to incarcerate them for their crimes.
If theres no threat of a removal of their liberty, these gurriers have nothing to fear.

KeepItLight

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/davidhall75/status/1389295260011008000

Seems like common sense. I reckon if this was introduced you'd be amazed just how many 'parents' would discover parenting quick fast when they have less for the booze and the cigarettes.

The problem is no consequences at the end of the day.

While there are definitely some generational issues, there's also plenty of cases where its just some inherently nasty little thug, who would be that way regardless. I know several lovely families with a black sheep scrote amongst them & it isn't the parents fault.

Notmything

cruizer101 wrote: »

Parenting classes should be provided by the government for all, and to get people to go, link it to child support. You want child support you do the classes. Even if it is only a few days a year I believe it could make a big difference.

The state already provides parenting courses. Parents get referred to them on a regular enough basis.

However, many don't go because they want to, it's something they are forced to. So they go, sit in a circle and don't engage. I've had parents tell me they are only there because the judge made them.

Thelonious Monk

Witcher wrote: »

It's not, it's ****ing moronic and ignorant of the actual situation on the ground with many young offenders.

Populist sh1te talk doesn't solve anything.

That's the thing, I live near where those kids kicked the woman under the train, most of them are harmless around here and come from decent families.
A lot of teenagers get into trouble regardless of their background, but we do seem to have exceptionally dodgy ones in certain areas.

Northernlily

mrslancaster wrote: »

Seriously who'd take that chance? In Dublin anyway....:eek:

Half these little turds would **** themselves if you grabbed them and their mates were nowhere to be seen.

The little rodents to be coming over the wall of my apartment complex and walking through the courtyard looking to rob bikes. Guards don't care a whole lot.

You'd see more on patrol in Herbert Park than you would up my way (North Inner City). I told my missus to stop cycling here. If anyone so much as layed a finger on her I would be out for blood. No respect, horrible little rats is all they are. And their parents much the same.

That little biker gang pushing the woman onto the tracks and the stabbing in IFSC and another woman thrown in the canal is absolutely sickening to me.

KeepItLight

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

That's the thing, I live near where those kids kicked the woman under the train, most of them are harmless around here and come from decent families.
A lot of teenagers get into trouble regardless of their background, but we do seem to have exceptionally dodgy ones in certain areas.

They'll have their own little cliques which form, where they have to show off to each other. This will happen regardless of how loving and supportive the family structure is, though a ****e family situation is certainly a fertile ground for this stuff to take root too.

EddieN75

biko wrote: »

Almost all of us managed to get though childhood and teen years without killing or hurting someone.
What makes us special?
A sense of morality?
Better parents?

Your parents worked and contributed to society.
As a young child you absorbed this sociable lifestyle

Thelonious Monk

KeepItLight wrote: »

They'll have their own little cliques which form, where they have to show off to each other. This will happen regardless of how loving and supportive the family structure is, though a ****e family situation is certainly a fertile ground for this stuff to take root too.

Yeah but when people start going on about deducting their dole, I'd wager those train kids are from Donaghmede or Kilbarrack or somewhere around here and everyone seems to work in these areas.
It's not always down to bad parenting it's just this culture of mad-bastardism and general gurrier carry on that we seem to be fond of in Ireland.

Why is the assumption that the kids in the malahide incident are deprived?

KeepItLight

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah but when people start going on about deducting their dole, I'd wager those train kids are from Donaghmede or Kilbarrack or somewhere around here and everyone seems to work in these areas.
It's not always down to bad parenting it's just this culture of mad-bastardism and general gurrier carry on that we seem to be fond of in Ireland.

I think this is why sports are so important, because it an offers an outlet for this kind of energy and an alternative means of 'showing off' without the nihilistic thuggery. Of course there are cases where someone is both an athlete and a thug, but for the most part having that alternative social framework and positive reinforcement can work wonders.

FileNotFound

Is it down to bad parenting? Well its definitely down to less than the best parenting, lord knows the day i made my first mistake the old fella made sure the second would be slow in coming, whether its grounding, or alternate punishment it should be happening.

Modern society and the lack of risk when acting the maggot helps build the culture.

Idle hands and lack of active engagement in sports is a likely contributor - I played so many sports that i'd prob not the energy to be my worst.

Its many things combined most likely, how you fix these in snowflake land is anyone's guess

Montage of Feck

If I make a bomb and it goes off and kills somebody I will be held responsible, why should making a baby be any different?

KeepItLight

Montage of Feck wrote: »

If I make a bomb and it goes off and kills somebody I will be held responsible, why should making a baby be any different?

you can do better than this, come on.
at what point does personal autonomy come into play? is the grandfather responsible for the sins of the grandson due to the same causal chain?