Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - **Read OP**

Antares35

Montage of Feck wrote: »

If I make a bomb and it goes off and kills somebody I will be held responsible, why should making a baby be any different?

Because legally if the prosecution find that there was an intention to kill or cause serious injury, then you can be found guilty of murder. One would assume that such intention would apply to the making of a bomb, because what the hell else is a bomb for. However one does not make a child with the intention that the child will kill or cause serious injury.

K.Flyer

KeepItLight wrote: »

I think this is why sports are so important, because it an offers an outlet for this kind of energy and an alternative means of 'showing off' without the nihilistic thuggery. Of course there are cases where someone is both an athlete and a thug, but for the most part having that alternative social framework and positive reinforcement can work wonders.

Contrary to that..
I know a lot of people, including myself, who had / have no real interest in sports. Hated track days in school, no particular interest in soccer, gaa or rugby etc. Nothing against it, just no interest in it.
We were more into our music and motorbikes etc.
Didn't grow up to be thugs or degenerates, worked hard and brought up responsible families.
We knew the difference between right and wrong and consequences.
But today, there are no consequences, no deterrents.
They laugh at the Garda and anyone else they cause misery for.
I've seen it with my own eyes two gangs of teenage scummers fighting each other then both turning around to take on the Garda when they arrived.
And hilariously there is now more evidence available than ever before with loads of it being posted on social media, yet what proportion actually get locked up?
Very few I imagine given the already overcrowded prison system.

Pinch Flat

Multi generational scum bagness has a lot to do with it. Quite likely the parents and grandparents parents are scumbags as well so they don't stand much of a chance.

osarusan

Montage of Feck wrote: »

If I make a bomb and it goes off and kills somebody I will be held responsible, why should making a baby be any different?

Sweet jesus that is beyond stupid.

Larbre34

It was ever thus.

There have always been sociopathic teenagers and, funnily enough, sociopathic people at all stages of life.

The good news is, 99%+ of our teenagers have a strong moral sense and behave accordingly. Those in my own extended family are far more compassionate, charitable and socially aware than I ever was at that age, I admire them greatly.

11112

My 5 year old daughter and I were stoned in Windy Arbour playground last year. I am left with a prematurely and rapidly detaching vitreous which leaves me at risk of a detached retina and blindness, 4 more weeks high risk. Aldo have facial nerve damage which is healing and had a cornea abrasion.

The girl, and yes it was a girl that did it managed to avoid even talking to the guards. The guards wanted to give me a caution for kicking the **** out of her, in fairness I stopped once I realised it was a girl. The guard left me off though when the girl failed to cooperate and even give a statement.

Her mother was all over the radio the day after "She might have hit him by accident while playing with stones" . Very quick to go to the radio , not so quick to cooperate with the guards.

EddieN75

11112 wrote: »

My 5 year old daughter and I were stoned in Windy Arbour playground last year. I am left with a prematurely and rapidly detaching vitreous which leaves me at risk of a detached retina and blindness, 4 more weeks high risk. Aldo have facial nerve damage which is healing and had a cornea abrasion.

The girl, and yes it was a girl that did it managed to avoid even talking to the guards. The guards wanted to give me a caution for kicking the **** out of her, in fairness I stopped once I realised it was a girl. The guard left me off though when the girl failed to cooperate and even give a statement.

Her mother was all over the radio the day after "She might have hit him by accident while playing with stones" . Very quick to go to the radio , not so quick to cooperate with the guards.

Im sorry to hear about what happened to you and your daughter. But after hearing what you did please realise that I am high fiving you through the internet.

11112

EddieN75 wrote: »

Im sorry to hear about what happened to you and your daughter. But after hearing what you did please realise that I am high fiving you through the internet.

This is how I handled it with the guards. First I went straight to the guards, confessed everything and apologised. Because of this and no past offences the guard was willing to give me a caution. The mother wouldn't accept this and the guard said we have to take a long statement and send it to the DPP with a recommendation of a caution, I agreed to this.

Then the other side refused to come in and give their statement, they kept making appointments and not showing up. They basically wound down the clock to save themselves. The guard knew this and at the end of the 6 months limit he had the option of calling me in and giving me the caution or just letting it slip. He let it slip

well... Considering what we know about indoctrination and social programming, along with the various aspects of psychology, I wonder why we can't simply take these teens and indoctrinate them into being better members of society?

For those who are squeamish about applying physical punishment, would the application of techniques for indoctrination/brainwashing be more acceptable? (Assuming that it could be done without the physical punishments)

I often think that society today doesn't really want to solve such issues because every way to deal with them is considered to be wrong.. and those that remain are ineffective. I understand that there is the fear of opening Pandora's box, slippery slope and all that, but surely at some point we have to say enough is enough and use what we have to reduce the chance of this kind of behavior from continuing.

tastyt

Not into Dublin bashing as iv lived there long enough but the government really need to act to sort the place out .

Absolute scum teenagers everywhere, in town , on beaches , attacking people on the canal , running wild on the luas. It’s making the city an unbearable place really

I just don’t understand the mentality that says they should be pitied and helped sort out their issues, poverty etc . Get them off he streets first and protect your people.

And this nonsense about facilities, some of the areas where a lot of these scrotes come from have things we could only dream about as young lads . Astro turf pitches , sports clubs , skate parks etc . Problem is they are usually vandalised by these the minute they are put in .

You can’t put the cart before the horse . You can’t try to fix the problem by all carrot and no stick while they laugh in the face of anyone trying to help them .

Get them off the streets first , then offer them help if they want it .

EddieN75

11112 wrote: »

This is how I handled it with the guards. First I went straight to the guards, confessed everything and apologised. Because of this and no past offences the guard was willing to give me a caution. The mother wouldn't accept this and the guard said we have to take a long statement and send it to the DPP with a recommendation of a caution, I agreed to this.

Then the other side refused to come in and give their statement, they kept making appointments and not showing up. They basically wound down the clock to save themselves. The guard knew this and at the end of the 6 months limit he had the option of calling me in and giving me the caution or just letting it slip. He let it slip

The Garda knew you were in the right. Probably would have done the same thing himself.
And did anything happen to them for hitting you in the face with stones?

11112

EddieN75 wrote: »

The Garda knew you were in the right. Probably would have done the same thing himself.
And did anything happen to them for hitting you in the face with stones?

Nothing happened , the girl even avoided making a statement to the gardai. They kept making appointments and not turning up. The mother said it was an "accident" on the radio, a detached vitreous and 6 months failing to give a Garda statement says it wasn't an accident.

ThunbergsAreGo

KeepItLight wrote: »

While there are definitely some generational issues, there's also plenty of cases where its just some inherently nasty little thug, who would be that way regardless. I know several lovely families with a black sheep scrote amongst them & it isn't the parents fault.

They could not let them out?

They could try being aware of where their kids are

ThunbergsAreGo

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah but when people start going on about deducting their dole, I'd wager those train kids are from Donaghmede or Kilbarrack or somewhere around here and everyone seems to work in these areas.
It's not always down to bad parenting it's just this culture of mad-bastardism and general gurrier carry on that we seem to be fond of in Ireland.

I work with a woman from Donaghmede, she's says on her street, only two families work. Bag eggs/areas everywhere though

EddieN75

11112 wrote: »

Nothing happened , the girl even avoided making a statement to the gardai. They kept making appointments and not turning up. The mother said it was an "accident" on the radio, a detached vitreous and 6 months failing to give a Garda statement says it wasn't an accident.

That's shocking. Imagine what sort of dirt bag goes around throwing stones at children in a playground.

These yokes should be living in tents on a camp with high steel fences. Away from normal society.
Sterilise them all too

KeepItLight

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

They could not let them out?

They could try being aware of where their kids are

you're assuming these kids listen to their parents. a single mom isn't going to be able to stop a 6ft 16-year lad

don't get me wrong, I'm all for harsh punitive measures. But not for parents, just the actual criminals themselves.

11112

EddieN75 wrote: »

That's shocking. Imagine what sort of dirt bag goes around throwing stones at children in a playground.

These yokes should be living in tents on a camp with high steel fences. Away from normal society.
Sterilise them all too

They were up on a 8 ft platform firing the stones downwards. The extra height gave them more speed. They though they had some protection too as the only way up was a rope ladder that only kids can climb. An adult can't climb it as when you put your feet on it they both go forward.

thegetawaycar

11112 wrote: »

Nothing happened , the girl even avoided making a statement to the gardai. They kept making appointments and not turning up. The mother said it was an "accident" on the radio, a detached vitreous and 6 months failing to give a Garda statement says it wasn't an accident.

Was that story covered in the media? Nearly sure I read/heard it before.

This here does show the issue and solutions.
The parents going to bat for their scum kids, I've seen this happen in Garda stations, going in screaming to get little scrote out of the station, claiming brutality, camera phones out, the guards should be given permission to open up the baton on anyone acting like that in the station.

The kid got a few slaps and won't be going back acting the scrote as they now see consequences. This is why they usually are in big groups, catch one on their own and they'll **** themselves, in big groups they see no consequences. I've already seen in my area that local parents approached scrote kids and got abuse thrown at them. 2 weeks later a large group of parents went to the same scrote kids got numerous apologies, promises to cop on etc...

The gards have no power and if they even can do anything the judiciary let them off with a slap on the wrist. This will lead to vigilantism and then things will get worse.

kapisko1PL

Nothing is ever going to change and as a foreigner it hurts me to say this. I came here in 2006 and a lot of people would probably tell me to f*ck off since this is not my country and not to get involved but as a foreigner who cannot see any other options beyond Ireland it's really something which would have to be tackled very soon or this is going to grow worse.

Where I am from you would never see his sort of behaviour from the youth. You'd never see the youth intimidating the Gardai or tell them to f*ck off. There's somewhat a different attitude towards the authority there. Not so much of respect but more of a judiciary fear and consequences. As much as I'd hate Ireland become a police state I'd very much welcome a modern approach to policing and a complete judiciary reform in this country.

micah537

Vasectomy and tubal ligation should be offered for free along with €20,000 for taking up the option. Offer it to everyone regardless of their income, provided they have less the two kids.



This will possibly have a slight effect on reducing the population which is becoming unsustainable, and in the long term reduce potentially bad parents from having kids.


Current children's allowance is €140 I think per month which is over €30,000 in 18 years not taking any future raises into account.



Sure it won't solve any short term problems but in 10-15years we should see a positive out come. I could see plenty of people taking up this option.



Unfortunately the smarter and more affluent people have less children than people in hardship, leading to more children born who will not have the advantages of higher education or self believe and end up like their parents. (I know that's a major generalisation that won't always be true).

FileNotFound

I would say education and opportunity are the best things to reduce family size.

All the so called posh south dublin will be majority 2 child families, the reason given is generally because more than 2 is unnaffordable. When people say they cannot afford more than 2 they are not thinking babies but long term, childcare, schools, university, standard of living, ensuring children get the best they can.

This mindset seems non existant in the larger families in disadvantaged areas, not the lack of caring for their kids but the overall reality that having 3 or 4 means you can only give less to each.


Now driving education and opportunity is a right conundrum, we already have free education, grants so on and so on.

Strumms

mrslancaster wrote: »

Unfortunately a lot of young thugs have a lot of role models in their communities. Older thugs, drug dealers, those involved in robbery & fraud who they see getting away with crimes & no consequences.

Edit...or worse, actually profiting from crime.

If it’s demonstrated to a young certain type of person, that they can profit from crime, without consequences, without deterrent... they may follow the lead that is set.

On the other hand, if they see their say cousin, commits robbery, assaults etc. but is apprehended, charged, convicted... jailed can’t get a job on release, low life.... justice system is being successful..

Justice system stops that role model tag...

KeepItLight

family size has zero correlation with propensity for crime

FileNotFound

KeepItLight wrote: »

family size has zero correlation with propensity for crime

I suppose crime is more prevalent in disadvantaged areas and larger family size is also more prevalent in these areas no?

I know its not a simple big family makes criminals but in urban areas they do coincide, then again there may be increased broken families, less opportunity, poorer education, greater negative influences etc. etc.

Jeremy Sproket

Mandatory national service for boys and girls to be performed when they turn 18.

Bring in mandatory sentencing whereby if you are found guilty of a certain crime you must serve a specific sentence. No leniency for rubbish like "hard upbringing" or the usual reduction in punishment for female offenders.

micah537

Jeremy Sproket wrote: »

Mandatory national service for boys and girls to be performed when they turn 18.

Plenty of us are doing fine without wasting a year or two in National Service. Not all off the lads I went to secondary school with who joined the FCA back then are upstanding citizens these days, so what advantage is the National Service going to be?



It's up to parents to parent not the army.

KeepItLight

FileNotFound wrote: »

I suppose crime is more prevalent in disadvantaged areas and larger family size is also more prevalent in these areas no?

I know its not a simple big family makes criminals but in urban areas they do coincide, then again there may be increased broken families, less opportunity, poorer education, greater negative influences etc. etc.

Correlation was the wrong term to have used, causation is what was meant, and large families definitely do not cause a higher chance of criminal behaviour. Just look back at previous generations when families were much larger on average.

piplip87

Time to start taking kids of bad parents. Too much of this scumbaggery is handed down from generation to generation.

XVII

kapisko1PL wrote: »

Where I am from you would never see his sort of behaviour from the youth. You'd never see the youth intimidating the Gardai or tell them to f*ck off. There's somewhat a different attitude towards the authority there. Not so much of respect but more of a judiciary fear and consequences. As much as I'd hate Ireland become a police state I'd very much welcome a modern approach to policing and a complete judiciary reform in this country.

so much this.

it's especially so wild when you are coming from abroad and see this. It's actually unbelievable how bad it is over here.

wicklowstevo

biko wrote: »

It's tricky.

In Sweden (referenced above in thread) a 16yo and his mates were harassing a 68yo woman and eventually burned her house down and killed her.
The 16yo says it was unintentional to start such a big fire, and perhaps it was.

Should he be charged with murder and have that over his head the rest of his life?

He needs to pay, and pay dearly, but how?

it should hang over him the rest of his life regardless , that is a normal human reaction.
not not being so is part of the issue , lack of responsibility or even the expectation of responsibility