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Report on High Percentage of Traveller Unemployment

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  • Options
    #422
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,835 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    According to legislation that is correct, but in practice that isn't something that occurs with travellers. Hence the extensive use of children to commit thefts in their community.

    Feeling or fact. Because travelers make up a sizable proportion of your criminal conviction rates.


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    #423
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,835 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    So you are now saying that the real issue here is the crime being committed and NOT the AGS response time?

    Are you binary or something?

    They can both simultaneously be problems with different orders of magnitude. They can both be “real” issues here.


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    #424
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,405 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Overheal wrote: »
    Feeling or fact. Because travelers make up a sizable proportion of your criminal conviction rates.

    Fact. Not helped by travellers going by more than one surname. If they are being sought by AGS they have a tendancy to go on the lam as well.

    Glazers Out!



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    #425
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,835 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    Fact. Not helped by travellers going by more than one surname. If they are being sought by AGS they have a tendancy to go on the lam as well.

    If fact: what evidence?


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    #426
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,405 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Overheal wrote: »
    If fact: what evidence?

    What evidence do you expect me to provide?

    My years of experience aren't good enough for you. I can't post links to anything for you to read.

    You're going to have to take my word for it.

    Glazers Out!



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    #427
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,835 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    What evidence do you expect me to provide?

    My years of experience aren't good enough for you. I can't post links to anything for you to read.

    You're going to have to take my word for it.

    So personal experience not any actual objective body of evidence, a study, investigatory stats etc etc of a systemic refusal to prosecute crimes committed by child proxy?

    I can see why such cases would be arguably challenging to prosecute but you make it seem as though that prosecution “in practice” never happens.


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    #428
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,405 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Overheal wrote: »
    So personal experience not any actual objective body of evidence, a study, investigatory stats etc etc of a systemic refusal to prosecute crimes committed by child proxy?

    I can see why such cases would be arguably challenging to prosecute but you make it seem as though that prosecution “in practice” never happens.

    You clearly have a very poor understanding of the Irish criminal justice system is general.

    Sorry there hasn't been a white paper done for you to read. Lived experience is only valuable in instances that suit you it seems.

    Glazers Out!



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    #429
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,835 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    You clearly have a very poor understanding of the Irish criminal justice system is general.

    Sorry there hasn't been a white paper done for you to read. Lived experience is only valuable in instances that suit you it seems.

    On the contrary you’ve made a convincing case that such cases would be inherently difficult to prosecute. But you went farther and said in practice they are simply not prosecuted. I asked for clear evidence of this since there is clear evidence that travelers make up a significant per capita portion of your incarcerated persons.

    You may think my understanding poor but what I’m being told from people who seemingly have a better understanding that you have a 2 day wait time for Garda response. The crime can be as bad as bad and we can all agree but in order to do something you’d need to go and have them arrested and - oh yeah. Two day wait. So that is a salient part of the problem in need of discussion.


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    #430
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,405 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Overheal wrote: »
    On the contrary you’ve made a convincing case that such cases would be inherently difficult to prosecute. But you went farther and said in practice they are simply not prosecuted. I asked for clear evidence of this since there is clear evidence that travelers make up a significant per capita portion of your incarcerated persons.

    You may think my understanding poor but what I’m being told from people who seemingly have a better understanding that you have a 2 day wait time for Garda response. The crime can be as bad as bad and we can all agree but in order to do something you’d need to go and have them arrested and - oh yeah. Two day wait. So that is a salient part of the problem in need of discussion.

    The issue is that using children to commit theft is very much the thin end of the wedge for traveller criminality.

    Greater resources are required for AGS to be more effective, but that doesn't excuse the crimes being committed in areas where they have a poor response time, which you highlighted as being a greater issue than the crimes themselves earlier in the thread, a position that is too difficult to defend which ensured your now more reasoned stance.

    Glazers Out!



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    #431
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,835 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    The issue is that using children to commit theft is very much the thin end of the wedge for traveller criminality.

    Greater resources are required for AGS to be more effective, but that doesn't excuse the crimes being committed in areas where they have a poor response time, which you highlighted as being a greater issue than the crimes themselves earlier in the thread, a position that is too difficult to defend which ensured your now more reasoned stance.

    It’s the same stance you just understand it better now dispelled of your false implications.


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    #432
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,405 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Overheal wrote: »
    It’s the same stance you just understand it better now dispelled of your false implications.

    Stop the grandstanding.

    You posted "Sounds like you have a bigger problem with your police than anything there. Two day response time!? The roads were not that bad last I left."

    People are entitled to take what you're saying at face value. If you have to qualify your own posts afterwards that's on you.

    Lest we forget that in this thread you have suggested that the term" traveller" is interchangeable with "black".

    Not to mention how easily you discount the real world experiences of numerous posters.

    Glazers Out!



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    #433
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,835 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    Stop the grandstanding.

    You posted "Sounds like you have a bigger problem with your police than anything there. Two day response time!? The roads were not that bad last I left."

    People are entitled to take what you're saying at face value. If you have to qualify your own posts afterwards that's on you.

    Lest we forget that in this thread you have suggested that the term" traveller" is interchangeable with "black".

    Not to mention how easily you discount the real world experiences of numerous posters.

    Oh stop. By your admission you didn’t take my post “at face value” you argued that what I said was “implied” etc etc.

    Face value: 2 day police response time is an even bigger problem than the crime itself.


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    #434
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,405 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Overheal wrote: »
    Oh stop. By your admission you didn’t take my post “at face value” you argued that what I said was “implied” etc etc.

    Face value: 2 day police response time is an even bigger problem than the crime itself.

    It must be great to be right when you're wrong.

    We don't agree on anything Overheal, PM me if you want to keep this going.

    Glazers Out!



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    #435
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,835 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    It must be great to be right when you're wrong.

    We don't agree on anything Overheal, PM me if you want to keep this going.

    No thank you. You have some sort of naked animus toward me that won’t be entertained.


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    #436
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,405 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Overheal wrote: »
    No thank you. You have some sort of naked animus toward me that won’t be entertained.

    Got any proof of that or is that based on your feelings?

    Glazers Out!



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    #437
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,835 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    nullzero wrote: »
    Got any proof of that or is that based on your feelings?

    Best calm down, please. I’m here to discuss the topic, not you.

    I’ll put you on ignore for now so there’s no problem for anyone.


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    #438
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    stratowide wrote: »
    So that must mean that 20% are gainfully employed...Hmmm

    "80% of the Traveller community are not in work."

    Surely the other 20 percent are children/pensioners/disabled etc?


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    #439
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,405 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Overheal wrote: »
    Best calm down, please. I’m here to discuss the topic, not you.

    I’ll put you on ignore for now so there’s no problem for anyone.

    Just wow.

    Take care of yourself pal.

    Glazers Out!



  • Options
    #440
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,835 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    "80% of the Traveller community are not in work."

    Surely the other 20 percent are children/pensioners/disabled etc?

    Believe the study was of eligible workers so no would be 80% of able adults


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    #441
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Overheal wrote: »
    Believe the study was of eligible workers so no would be 80% of able adults

    Ok "of the Travelling Community" would be the total population though.


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    #442
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,835 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    tylercheribini wrote: »
    Ok "of the Travelling Community" would be the total population though.

    Yeah I can see why that report is confusing. Would like RTE to have linked to the study. In most unemployment studies it’s percentage of eligible workers but the article as you said seems to report it is 80% of the community.


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    #443
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    nullzero wrote: »
    I've literally just heard from a family friend whose elderly parent was the victim of a burglary carried out by two traveller children aged under 10 years of age yesterday. Their parents were waiting in a vehicle nearby. You can't convict a minor. Down there for dancin'.

    appears their ( two ten year olds ) education is coming along nicely , delivering results already


  • Options
    #444
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,405 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    appears their ( two ten year olds ) education is coming along nicely , delivering results already

    Sadly.

    Glazers Out!



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    #445
    wicklowstevo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 919 ✭✭✭wicklowstevo


    Overheal wrote: »
    What is “weak” about being concerned that you have a 2 day wait time for an emergency service!?

    was it a emergency ? no
    do the gardai have tiny resources to deal with a culture of criminality yes

    if they had responded with bluelights and siren you'd be alleging harassment

    are you at your usual wind up crap again yes , reported


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    #446
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,835 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    We had travelers knock on our door a few years ago telling me our gutters needed replacing and he would do it for €40.
    There was a loose one at the end.
    I had heard of the con, so I said no, i'll do it myself when I get around to it. My OH called me racist for saying that (she was annoyed i hadnt fixed it before that anyway).
    An hour later there is another knock on the door. This time its an elderly neighbor looking for a loan of a couple of hundred euro to pay for his gutters.
    I went around to his house with him and his gutters were on the ground. Ripped off the house.
    Two travelers (including the one who knocked on my door) standing over it demanding €400 to finish the job.
    It turned out that they had told him he had a loose one and they would fix it for €40. He said ok.
    Then when they had them off they told him they wanted €400 to finish the job (yes the price had increased x 10).
    They were very intimidating.
    I called the gardai and nothing even after an hour of a stand off with these guys on the neighbors lawn. He just wanted to pay them the €400 to get them to go away.
    I rang a few other neighbors and eventually there were about 8 of us neighbors standing in the garden.
    Eventually the travelers went away, but the neighbor was terrified they would be back.     We fixed his gutters for him and hung around for the rest of the day.
    The gardai called to his house 2 days later. Nothing ever happened over it from the gardai.
    But about 2 years later same guy called again about our gutters. That neighbor had died since, but I dread to think how he would have felt had he opened the door that day to the same guy.

    I have had many interaction with travelers through work and personal life and im trying to think of one that was a good one.
    I can only think of one where I thought that the guy was a nice guy, but even that ended up badly in the end when he turned out to not be such a stand up citizen.

    Seems urgent to me, Wicklowstevo, when the victim is off running to neighbors for help and the neighborhood has to make a scene of it because the Garda refused to appear.


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    #447
    wicklowstevo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 919 ✭✭✭wicklowstevo


    Overheal wrote: »
    Seems urgent to me, Wicklowstevo, when the victim is off running to neighbors for help and the neighborhood has to make a scene of it because the Garda refused to appear.

    your intentions here are clear and that isnt to do engage in any form of intelligent discussion

    i wont be engaging with you either and would encourage others not to either


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    #448
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Was Operation Tarmac mentioned yet? It was on the news earlier.
    CAB were able to seize a mansion today in Killarney and a fortune in cash, high end goods and high spec vehicles. All they had to do to catch this "gang" was to examine their high net worth versus their income (the dole). We need to see a lot more similar seizures and prosecution. And well done to the Gardai and CAB on their stellar work in nabbing the proceeds of this type of criminality.


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    #449
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,835 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Was Operation Tarmac mentioned yet? It was on the news earlier.
    CAB were able to seize a mansion today in Killarney and a fortune in cash, high end goods and high spec vehicles. All they had to do to catch this "gang" was to examine their high net worth versus their income (the dole). We need to see a lot more similar seizures and prosecution. And well done to the Gardai and CAB on their stellar work in nabbing the proceeds of this type of criminality.

    This I take it https://www.thejournal.ie/criminal-assets-bureau-operation-tarmac-killarney-thomas-coffey-house-seized-5417123-Apr2021/

    Good job on them. Hope it was the same prick(s) who tried to scam the aforementioned deceased neighbor out of 400 euro.

    Operation Tarmac name is curious. My first results for that were a post-9/11 mass arrest of US airport workers. Tarmac as in the paving they'd scam people into trying to get?


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    #450
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    wicklowstevo wrote: »
    was it a emergency ? no
    do the gardai have tiny resources to deal with a culture of criminality yes

    if they had responded with bluelights and siren you'd be alleging harassment

    are you at your usual wind up crap again yes , reported
    Overheal wrote: »
    Seems urgent to me, Wicklowstevo, when the victim is off running to neighbors for help and the neighborhood has to make a scene of it because the Garda refused to appear.
    wicklowstevo wrote: »
    your intentions here are clear and that isnt to do engage in any form of intelligent discussion

    i wont be engaging with you either and would encourage others not to either

    Mod:

    Ok you two bickering seems to be a constant issue. Both of you take a week off this thread and reconsider your posting style on your return


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    #451
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    https://www.facebook.com/96796398469/posts/10159663850823470/?d=n

    Its an absolute disgrace to see the indo censoring comments like this, theyve deleted the actual feelings of real people and left in the fake virtue signalling positivity.

    Ive bever seen a comments section full of so many blatant pro criminality lies


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