Report on High Percentage of Traveller Unemployment

hawley

Traveller employment needs to become a significant focus for Government policy and strategy if unemployment among members is to be tackled, according to a new report.

<snip>

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0413/1209538-traveller-employment/

There's an inter-generational problem with unemployment in the community. Firstly, we need to focus on education and targeting areas for traveller employment. It is an more problematic for young traveller men. It's more common to meet traveller women in the workplace and they seem to do better in second level education. We live in a more diverse society, where integration should in theory be easier.

touts

There is a strong work culture among Travellers. The problem is there isn't a strong culture of taxable employment.

stratowide

So that must mean that 20% are gainfully employed...Hmmm

Squeeonline

Picachu face.

donaghs

Would be good to see some figures on percentage finishing secondary school, getting trade qualifications, or completing 3rd level courses.

Probably the most practical way of helping would be to look at what qualifications/training are there, and trying to fix that pipeline, before talking about discrimination etc.

Mike Murdock

Let me guess: They are always the victim, it is never their fault.

Thelonious Monk

Most of them wouldn't be employable. They are not integrated into our society and I don't think they want to be integrated. So if they can barely grasp the English language and don't finish primary school how would they ever be employed?
I don't know what the solution is, you can't help those who don't want to be helped. And maybe they're bloody right, the rat race isn't all its cracked up to be.

Furze99

Let's see, hmm.. who wrote the report? How are they funded? Would this benefit their continuing public funding?

If travellers want acceptance in mainstream society, they need to start low. Take work, pay tax, show themselves to be reliable.

Instead of claiming benefits whilst engaged in gathering money by various means, including illegal means, and not paying tax of any sort on income. Instead of discarding their rubbish in the local ditches. And abiding by public health measures wouldn't do any harm either.

How do you help a community who often give two fingers to the rest of society? They have to help themselves, giving out state sponsored jobs is not the way.

Shield

This is one of the unfortunate byproducts of choosing to live a life ‘on the road’: you’re never going to end up with a stable job.

No stable job means no references.

No references means you won’t get a job.

Repeat and rinse if desired.

Damien360

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Most of them wouldn't be employable. They are not integrated into our society and I don't think they want to be integrated. So if they can barely grasp the English language and don't finish primary school how would they ever be employed?
I don't know what the solution is, you can't help those who don't want to be helped. And maybe they're bloody right, the rat race isn't all its cracked up to be.

Not employable....you are probably correct but sometimes for good reasons that is not prejudice. For comparison. I would like to see employment stats for Irish non-traveller individuals with no education past primary school. Add to that, new-irish with equally no education and get those employment stats. I don't think you would be too surprised that the sets of data would compare quite well with each other.

The education system is not for everyone. Some cannot cope with it and end up on the edges of society or employment in very poor paying jobs. But I don't think any other cohort of people have as big a non-engagement in education than the travellers. The question is why? Is it caused by attitudes within the traveller community or caused by the system. I know which one the traveller community will blame and which one every one else will blame.

Peintre Celebre

One quite pertinent issue that isn't addressed is the percentage of travellers that want to be employed. Not too high I'd imagine

Travellers should prioritise finishing school and gaining actual qualifications for a start, then they can become viable candidates for employment. Dropping out and feeling sorry for oneself doesn't open any doors.

Pussyhands

touts wrote: »

There is a strong work culture among Travellers. The problem is there isn't a strong culture of taxable employment.

They have a strong work from home culture also

hawley

hawley wrote: »

...It says employment for members of the community should be a "named focus" and it calls for the creation of a work experience programme and internships for Travellers in the public sector.

There was a previous programme like this in the Civil Service about 15 years ago- I don't know what the outcome of it was.

But what I will say is as part of that programme I worked one to one with travellers in my section for several months each and I found them all very keen to learn, hardworking, and committed to getting on and doing well.

The biggest thing standing in their way was they were genuinely nervous they would not be accepted by the other staff. But once they got past that, they settled in fine and worked very well.

Damien360

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

One quite pertinent issue that isn't addressed is the percentage of travellers that want to be employed. Not too high I'd imagine

If my town is anything to go by, that's not true at all. A few are drug dealers (not work) but most are roofers, paving etc. During the boom these guys were on building sites doing the gutters. I see the vans on the road first thing in the morning without fail, off to work. Now how much of that is taxable is another question.

batman75

It is up to travellers to conclusively tackle the perception of thieving amongst their numbers. Yes settled people rob too but their is a perception amongst the general public that travellers are not worthy of being trusted. For a community of people who have high unemployment in their ranks they seem to be well able to amass wealth. This unexplained wealth is another source of understandable suspicion amongst the general public.

So instead of crying about injustice and discrimination try tackling the very reasons for suspicion.

mohawk

Many of us come from families where finishing secondary school and then going on to either college, a trade or some further training is expected of us. No ifs or buts. That is what is expected and that is what you do. Unfortunately, this is not the case for many growing up in traveller communities. School drop out is still a big issue.

Like other posters above have said. When controlling for education are they doing better or worse then others.

_Brian

It’s very difficult to integrate such a separate culture when they want to pick and choose which norms of society suits them.

Social welfare, yes they seem comfortable with that part of being in society.
Social responsibility, no, not enough traveller families are embracing their social responsibilities to the rest of society.

You can’t be half in and half out of society and expect to be accepted and respected, I say this for settled people too where were in places were seeing generational unemployment as the lifestyle of preference. There’s only so much give in society without some return, that’s where resentment grows.

80% not working, I want to know what accounts for the other 20% it's certainly not in employment

SEPT 23 1989

thanks OP

I needed a good laugh this afternoon

suicide_circus

I can believe that 80% are in receipt of job seekers but i dont think that means that 80% are not working.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0413/1209538-traveller-employment/

The unironic use of the word "microaggressions" quoted in that article tells you all you need to know.

millb

Travellers have certain skill sets and historical "employment" activities which should be the focus of some schemes. For example if each "County Development" agency took on a particular "trade or type of employment" then they could generate a productive activity following the concepts of business development and thereby employ / educate / develop the skills and ethos of responsible business.

EG say Clare, Cork, Mayo and Carlow had animal breeding, wildlife management and animal welfare orientated operations - and if Kildare, Louth and Longford had horse industry apprentices and SMEs then that could be a benefit.

Recycling and metalwork could also be a win - win if for example, different niches were approached and facilitated with appropriate plant or technology. Say niche operations for example: mattress recycling; wood processing; metal recovery, caravan building & repair.

Culture and entertainment could be other niches - say a new "Wanderly Waggon" type experience or programme.

The problem is that "values" are placed on the quick buck, expediency, win-loose, "dodge and avoid" behaviors.

Government generally couldn't adapt or progress these schemes as they rely on leadership and consensus / buy in, flexibility and creative agility which is not a strong point of administration or taxpayer wishes.

conorhal

mohawk wrote: »

Many of us come from families where finishing secondary school and then going on to either college, a trade or some further training is expected of us. No ifs or buts. That is what is expected and that is what you do. Unfortunately, this is not the case for many growing up in traveller communities. School drop out is still a big issue.

Like other posters above have said. When controlling for education are they doing better or worse then others.

The top three routes out of poverty are:
1)Education
2)Education
and
3)Education


This fatuous report seems more interest in creating a host of QUANGOs and 'social programmes' destined to fail because there is no focus on fixing the root of the problem.

Like many programmes designed by the well to do chattering middle classes, they always focus on 'visibility' rather then substance.


You have to start with traveller kids in primary school and work from there, there's no quick fixes, no shortcuts and no quota you can put in place that does anything other then set them up for failure if you're ignoring the basics that need to be in place for them to succeed.

millb

Damien360 wrote: »

If my town is anything to go by, that's not true at all. A few are drug dealers (not work) but most are roofers, paving etc. During the boom these guys were on building sites doing the gutters. I see the vans on the road first thing in the morning without fail, off to work. Now how much of that is taxable is another question.

That is a good example of some progress - they can take on main-stream activities once some role-models, skills and pathways to success can be established.

jimmycrackcorm

80% travellers unemployed.
I'd guess 80% also have very new vans and cars.

Fake Scores

I wonder what the ratio of traveller to settled was in the work force that compiled this study?

And also in the 'St Stephen's Green' Trust activities in general?

TomTomTim

This whole "all disparities are discrimination" nonsense really needs to be nipped in the bud. It gives a license to activists to claim that any disparity is because of discrimination, with no need for proof. Of course it only goes one way too. If the disparity goes against a non protected group, then it will be ignored, as it is nothing but an inconvenience to them.

Batattackrat

Why do they need to work when they have social welfare and "alternative income".

Also marrying your relatives is going to significantly lower your IQ I'd imagine.

Threadbanned

punisher5112

Is there going to be anything done about the big big issue coming with the Roma gypsies.

I'm seeing so many now that I met that were a child, still a child by the way but now with children of their own, at the weekend I seen 12 going to board a 15 bus.... Theses were all kids, with their own kids.

Cab needs to come down hard as does revenue and social services....

These kids aren't in school when they should be, of course last ages school were out but still.


Giving them ethnic status was a huge huge mistake and we will pay dearly for that.

Dyr

Pussyhands wrote: »

They have a strong work from home culture also

Do a lot of work in other peoples homes too, mostly with the elderly.

_Kaiser_

suicide_circus wrote: »

I can believe that 80% are in receipt of job seekers but i dont think that means that 80% are not working.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0413/1209538-traveller-employment/

The unironic use of the word "microaggressions" quoted in that article tells you all you need to know.

Yes that part stands out...

Ms Quilligan said changing such attitudes will involve significant cultural shifts.

"As the report points out, unfortunately, micro-aggressions in the form of workplace conversations that are hostile or negative about Travellers are a common and difficult experience for many.," she added.

"Changing this culture is crucial and will require action by employers and trade unions - for example line managers need to challenge unacceptable behaviour by other employees towards Travellers."

Yep, it's everyone else who is at fault for their perception of Travellers. The Travellers themselves bear no responsibility for this or ownership in changing it, they're the victims.

Quite!

suicide_circus

To summarise the report;

More money needed for more NGOs and Quango jobs.

punisher5112

Gimme gimme gimme seems to be what's on the order of the day....

Ckendrick

conorhal wrote: »

The top three routes out of poverty are:
1)Education
2)Education
and
3)Education


This fatuous report seems more interest in creating a host of QUANGOs and 'social programmes' destined to fail because there is no focus on fixing the root of the problem.

Like many programmes designed by the well to do chattering middle classes, they always focus on 'visibility' rather then substance.


You have to start with traveller kids in primary school and work from there, there's no quick fixes, no shortcuts and no quota you can put in place that does anything other then set them up for failure if you're ignoring the basics that need to be in place for them to succeed.

The other route out of/avoidance of poverty is postponing starting a family until you are in a position to financially support dependents.

Sandor Clegane

Just another woe is me story for the travellers, everyone's fault but mine, it's their standard narrative.

You'll always get a few suckers who'll pander to them but the vast majority of society knows what they're about.

bigroad

How many millions have been pumped into this group over the last twenty years and we are still asking the same questions with no results.
A complete waste of the taxpayers money.
Jobs for the boys is all this is about ,nice handy numbers for the NGOs ect.

SEPT 23 1989

bigroad wrote: »

How many millions have been pumped into this group over the last twenty years and we are still asking the same questions with no results.
A complete waste of the taxpayers money.
Jobs for the boys is all this is about ,nice handy numbers for the NGOs ect.

billions not millions

3DataModem

I do agree with this part "Ms Quilligan said changing such attitudes will involve significant cultural shifts."

It's possible we are thinking about different elements of culture, however.

hawley

The report, launched today, also suggests that the network of Traveller employment liaison personnel.

The research report, entitled Mincéir Misl’er a Tom Tober (Travellers Moving along the Main/Big Road) — Travellers in the Mainstream Labour Market, is being published by the St Stephen's Green Trust.

It highlights barriers such as the much lower level of education of many Mincéirí and experiences of "micro-aggressions".

"These were in the form of overhearing workplace conversations that were hostile to, or negative about Travellers, or being addressed in patronising terms that identified them as somehow exceptional: 'you’re not like them (other Travellers)'."

In the foreword, Senator Eileen Flynn said the obstacles to labour market participation were rooted in racism which required "a deep and multi-layered response

Omackeral

Before doing the default thing of lashing Travellers out of it, ask yourself if you’d employ one. Their issues and problems are well documented but just on a real level, while being honest with yourself, would you take one on? It’s easy to tell someone to get a job but if there’s nowhere willing to give you a start it’s a tough predicament.

I think if they actually wanted to tackle the issue of traveller unemployment, the best way to do it would be tying child benefit to school attendance which I doubt they will ever do.

I don't know did anyone else watch the Tyson Fury documentary a while ago? Him and his wife are obviously very settled but despite that his wife was still iffy about his daughter continuing on to secondary school (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8735015/Tyson-Furys-wife-Paris-says-theyre-fence-letting-daughter-secondary-school.html), fair play to him hes standing up to her about it but I think its such a major uphill battle if someone who obviously doesn't need to help around the house or go out and work or any of the usual excuses could still be potentially taken out of school at 11 because of "culture".

Buddy Bubs

Pussyhands wrote: »

They have a strong work from home culture also

Working from other people's homes

Wanderer78

Who d employ them?

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

Before doing the default thing of lashing Travellers out of it, ask yourself if you’d employ one. Their issues and problems are well documented but just on a real level, while being honest with yourself, would you take one on? It’s easy to tell someone to get a job but if there’s nowhere willing to give you a start it’s a tough predicament.

If they were qualified and best fit for the job, then yes. Not sure how many actually go to university and qualify with undergrads / postgraduates. I assume it's a very low number.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote:

I think if they actually wanted to tackle the issue of traveller unemployment, the best way to do it would be tying child benefit to school attendance which I doubt they will ever do.

Wouldn't work, logic doesn't work to resolve such situations, as it generally exasperates it

Wanderer78

6 wrote:

If they were qualified and best fit for the job, then yes. Not sure how many actually go to university and qualify with undergrads / postgraduates. I assume it's a very low number.

We don't live on that planet

Ckendrick

I find very few people who comment on travellers have ever spoken to, or otherwise have anything to do with, a traveller.

Stephen Gawking

The vast majority of travellers are completely unemployable, yes there's some hard workers amongst them but criminal enterprise is hardly gainful employment. Usually they'll only pay income tax when its the criminal assets bureau doing the 'asking' & even then that being done via the barrel of a gun.

Having said that; in my job there is one lad who is a traveller. Makes no bones about it & he's some grafter. Could listen to his stories all day, he once told me that he & his wife have been completely ostracised by the wider traveller society because they wanted a better life for their kids, he works, she works part time, kids go to school. And because he wouldn't get involved in the family 'business' or other 'cultural' activities the wider traveller community want nothing to do with him. You should hear what he has to say about certain NGO's as well.

Wanderer78

Ckendrick wrote:

I find very few people who comment on travellers have ever spoken to, or otherwise have anything to do with, a traveller.

Completely agree, you 'll find learning disabilities would be common enough amongst them

Leftwaffe

You cannot help them when it comes to education I have found. I haven’t had one traveller who has had an interest in being educated. You can try, try, try until you are blue in the face but it ain’t happening. It’s all about whether they’ll sit quiet in the class or not. Some will, some will be extremely disruptive. Mostly the latter.

I find their history really interesting tbh. They are obviously working out of an extremely small gene pool which is causing a whole host of issues. What we see as normal is not normal to them and vice versa. It just so happens that stealing and not getting an education is part of their culture.

Wanderer78

Leftwaffe wrote:

You cannot help them when it comes to education I have found. I haven’t had one traveller who has had an interest in being educated. You can try, try, try until you are blue in the face but it ain’t happening. It’s all about whether they’ll sit quiet in the class or not. Some will, some will be extremely disruptive. Mostly the latter.

Theyd hardly have disorders such adhd, would they?