Report on High Percentage of Traveller Unemployment

PuddingBreath

i had a traveller kid try steal from me, i was too quick for him, i was the bad guy with the mother ?!!
WTF. what a wonderful culture they have. most others would be mortified.
should i just let him steal from me and they head off laughing ?
if 1 in 5 of them can get a job then the other 4 out of 5 need to sort themselves out.
as had been pointed out, the have free(ish) education till 18, schemes to help them yet they carry on the same regardless. they're obviously happy with their lot in life ? in fairness, tis a grand concept to be able to just pick up at any time and head off whereever, no worries about the daily 9 to 5 grind, the commute, the rushing to get the kids ready.
if you're short a few bob just steal it(no one need tell me a big percentage of them are not involved in crime, i've witnessed plenty of it over the years)

Overheal

PuddingBreath wrote: »

i had a traveller kid try steal from me, i was too quick for him, i was the bad guy with the mother ?!!
WTF. what a wonderful culture they have. most others would be mortified.
should i just let him steal from me and they head off laughing ?
if 1 in 5 of them can get a job then the other 4 out of 5 need to sort themselves out.
as had been pointed out, the have free(ish) education till 18, schemes to help them yet they carry on the same regardless. they're obviously happy with their lot in life ? in fairness, tis a grand concept to be able to just pick up at any time and head off whereever, no worries about the daily 9 to 5 grind, the commute, the rushing to get the kids ready.
if you're short a few bob just steal it(no one need tell me a big percentage of them are not involved in crime, i've witnessed plenty of it over the years)

Someone with blue eyes stole from me once.

Those blue eyed bastards are all a shifty bunch.

wicklowstevo

Overheal wrote: »

Someone with blue eyes stole from me once.

Those blue eyed bastards are all a shifty bunch.

first hand eye witness evidence is good enough for any court in the land but it wont impress you

Overheal

Sure I’ve just given you a first hand witness account.

So you agree the blue eyed people are the real vandals yes

When someone refers to non-travellers as "settlers" it's ok to not take any of their statements seriously.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When someone refers to non-travellers as "settlers" it's ok to not take any of their statements seriously.

I’m sure it’s easier than having to confront what I’m saying objectively. Easier to just deny, distract, deflect from the criticism of yourselves.

Damien360

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When someone refers to non-travellers as "settlers" it's ok to not take any of their statements seriously.

Could be worse, I’ve been called “country folk”. It’s a term of insult to identity “settled people”.

Overheal

Damien360 wrote: »

Could be worse, I’ve been called “country folk”. It’s a term of insult to identity “settled people”.

“Settled Irish” has been used in thread by many people to make the distinction.

How would you prefer you be addressed in a manner which gives equal weight to you and the ethnic group you wish to reference as the subject of conversation (the Travelers)? Both groups are Irish, so clarify what you’d like to be labeled.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

I’m sure it’s easier than having to confront what I’m saying objectively. Easier to just deny, distract, deflect from the criticism of yourselves.

By any definition I can find I am a Traveller so there ya go. I appreciate your willingness to defend my honour and assertions that my plight is in any way comparable to the centuries of slavery and discrimination against black people brought to the US by white folk.

Mad_maxx

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

But you're confusing personal responsibility with what I'm saying is a system failure.

Clearly, when it comes to travellers, the system keeps returning errors: when we press "educate" on traveller children, we repeatedly end up with uneducated kids with a level of education that barely extends beyond simple arithmetic.

Now, the idea that the traveller community has a preponderance of wilfully atrocious parents is extremely improbable. To believe that, it necessary to believe there is something inherently degenerate about, or intrinsically wrong with travellers, and that is demonstrably false.

Something is wrong with a culture that has developed in their community. In other words, a system failure.

What does this stem from? I would appreciate if you genuinely tried to think about that, instead of reaching for the lazy answer that they are shirkers, layabouts, and criminals — things that were also, once, said about the Irish generally.

A culture has definitely sprung-up among travellers that is, at best, cynical towards education. I think that's at the heart of the problem, and if we can get away from the notion of blame and finger-pointing, we might manage to identify what's happening and propose reasonable solutions.

The state keeps telling travellers that they are responsible for none of the problems which bedevil their community, as does the media, academia, much of the political class and all of the NGO sector, the state plys them with benefits from cradle to grave

That's toxic conditioning

Damien360

Overheal wrote: »

“Settled Irish” has been used in thread by many people to make the distinction.

How would you prefer you be addressed in a manner which gives equal weight to you and the ethnic group you wish to reference as the subject of conversation (the Travelers)? Both groups are Irish, so clarify what you’d like to be labeled.

You and I am addressing you, are far too aggressive for your own arguments to be taken seriously. You are like the shouting man in the crowd, quickly ignored.

To address your question. Travellers asked to be identified as travellers. I didn’t ask for my label.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

By any definition I can find I am a Traveller so there ya go. I appreciate your willingness to defend my honour and assertions that my plight is in any way comparable to the centuries of slavery and discrimination against black people brought to the US by white folk.

As I’ve clarified already, it’s not at all that the discrimination blacks faced is the same. It’s that it’s all discrimination.

I’ve called out discriminatory attitudes on this thread is all. That’s not a defense against individual acts of crime or whatever or in defense of anyone’s negative experience with someone that they associated as or believed was a traveler. It’s not an absolution or a defense of any individual guilt for any individual acts.

Overheal

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The state keeps telling travellers that they are responsible for none of the problems which bedevil their community, as does the media, academia, much of the political class and all of the NGO sector, the state plys them with benefits from cradle to grave

That's toxic conditioning

Agreed. It’s a problem of multiple sides.

Overheal

Damien360 wrote: »

You and I am addressing you, are far too aggressive for your own arguments to be taken seriously. You are like the shouting man in the crowd, quickly ignored.

To address your question. Travellers asked to be identified as travellers. I didn’t ask for my label.

And yet both groups are Irish. Calling one Irish and one Traveler seems wholly inadequate. In the absence of a preference I don’t see what the fault is in referring to you as Settled Irish, to clearly distinguish Irish that are not also Travelers. If you take exception to Settled Irish or Settlers but don’t provide an alternative what are we to do

Strumms

I have a nice record that I’m proud of, I never turned up to an interview in my life where a job offer didn’t follow.

I always have two excellent and verifiable references from previous employers.

I apply for the job with a CV in the correct format, no grammatical errors, correct spelling, correct punctuation.

I turn up suitably groomed, suitably attired having researched the company where I’m applying for the job and arrive early.

Beforehand, I give my CV to my other half, friend or family member and get them to do a mock interview, so when I’m in that room, my mind is attuned to the mindset of the person/people interviewing..

In other words, effort. If you wait to be given opportunity you’ll find you are often left waiting... instead earn opportunities...

My mindset going to an interview... when I’m finished interviewing I would like that person say....” ok, we’ve found our person “... don’t want to be competitive, don’t want to be in the shake up, want to own their decision process and close the book.

Everyone needs that mindset....traveller, whoever... you got to make the effort so they have to pick you.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

As I’ve clarified already, it’s not at all that the discrimination blacks faced is the same. It’s that it’s all discrimination.

I’ve called out discriminatory attitudes on this thread is all. That’s not a defense against individual acts of crime or whatever or in defense of anyone’s negative experience with someone that they associated as or believed was a traveler. It’s not an absolution or a defense of any individual guilt for any individual acts.

But wait, I thought I was denying and deflecting your criticism of me as a settled person.

BTW I wasn't even taking issue with the term "settled" people, just "settlers". Settlers are colonisers, likely like some of your own ancestors. Use of such a completely unrelated term smacks of a loudmouth shouting about things they have very little knowledge about.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But wait, I thought I was denying and deflecting your criticism of me as a settled person.

BTW I wasn't even taking issue with the term "settled" people, just "settlers". Settlers are colonisers, likely like some of your own ancestors. Use of such a completely unrelated term smacks of a loudmouth shouting about things they have very little knowledge about.

None of which clarifies what term should be used instead?

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

None of which clarifies what term should be used instead?

"Settled people" is the one that's in the back of your mind somewhere.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"Settled people" is the one that's in the back of your mind somewhere.

I’m not sure what this means. So use the term settled people, settled Irish?

jmreire

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

But you're confusing personal responsibility with what I'm saying is a system failure.

Clearly, when it comes to travellers, the system keeps returning errors: when we press "educate" on traveller children, we repeatedly end up with uneducated kids with a level of education that barely extends beyond simple arithmetic.

Now, the idea that the traveller community has a preponderance of wilfully atrocious parents is extremely improbable. To believe that, it necessary to believe there is something inherently degenerate about, or intrinsically wrong with travellers, and that is demonstrably false.

Something is wrong with a culture that has developed in their community. In other words, a system failure.

What does this stem from? I would appreciate if you genuinely tried to think about that, instead of reaching for the lazy answer that they are shirkers, layabouts, and criminals — things that were also, once, said about the Irish generally.

A culture has definitely sprung-up among travellers that is, at best, cynical towards education. I think that's at the heart of the problem, and if we can get away from the notion of blame and finger-pointing, we might manage to identify what's happening and propose reasonable solutions.

We have a family friend who has been teaching traveller children all of her working life, and the cycle just keeps repeating itself...as soon as they can leave school, they do. And while they are physically there,learning beyond the bare minimum reading writing and maths is all that they do.They do not see further learning as being essential to their futures as travellers.Its all mapped out for them. However, there seems to be a ray of hope appearing though with traveller girls not prepared to follow the old ways, and this is a positive development. A local settled traveller girl, with two children, was 100% pro education. no question about it. Then sadly, her husband died, and his brother took on the reponsibility of her family. And she was straight back into the traveller culture, and that ended the education plans.

Mike Murdock

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The state keeps telling travellers that they are responsible for none of the problems which bedevil their community, as does the media, academia, much of the political class and all of the NGO sector, the state plys them with benefits from cradle to grave

That's toxic conditioning

It's textbook bigotry of low expectations

corner of hells

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Go into any womens' refuge and you'll find traveller women/children. They will probably be the only Irish people in there (apart from the staff). If you or I beat our wives/girlfriends one night after a skinful, they'd probably go stay with a friend/family member. For some reason, Travellers shun victims so they have to go stay in a refuge.

The other residents will be non nationals who have no friends/family to rely on.

How did you get into a women's refuge ? They're normally incredibly strict with access to them.

Mimon

Overheal wrote: »

Sure I’ve just given you a first hand witness account.

So you agree the blue eyed people are the real vandals yes

Absolutely ridiculous comparison.

Strumms

Deleted User wrote: »

All of these are fantastic. But I can see why Travellers don't see the value to all this education when at the end of it all, no one will give them a start, anyway.

And if anyone here believes that a traveller who rolls up to a job interview is on the same footing as a settled person, they're deluding themselves.

‘Give’ them ? Why should anyone ‘give’ them a start... nobody ever ‘gave’ me a start. I did however ‘earn’ opportunity and ensured I was the best candidate...

Hiring is a competitive selection process...

Interview ten people ? For three positions ? Hire the three best qualified and suitable candidates.. end of. Let them ensure through their efforts that they are top three.

jmreire

Strumms wrote: »

‘Give’ them ? Why should anyone ‘give’ them a start... nobody ever ‘gave’ me a start. I did however ‘earn’ opportunity and ensured I was the best candidate...

Hiring is a competitive selection process...

Interview ten people ? For three positions ? Hire the three best qualified and suitable candidates.. end of. Let them ensure through their efforts that they are top three.

Thats very understandable route to follow, and most people do the same. Early in life, you develop a work history, and develop it as you go on. But Travellers ( most of them anyway ) follow a completely different trajectory. Lack of schooling, Traveller culture etc. makes it nearly impossible for them to get on the jobs ladder. I've worked with one or two travellers abroad, and they were fine, and held responsible positions. These were born in England (just in case that made the difference?) but to Irish Traveller parents, For sure they were treated the very same as everyone else on the job.So it's not an impossibility, and can be done.

Something I've noticed on here, and am amazed/bemused by; when it comes to these kinds of threads..

Ya'd have to wonder about some of the posters on here, and consider if they've:

*Ever lived beside/had any dealings with travellers
*Have sociology degrees
*Possibly work for an NGO, or two

It seems some of them are so far removed from reality that they can't even begin to comprehend that the majority of folk actually do have 'real world' experience of Travellers. I actually believe that they do believe this..

I don't believe however; that they believe a lot of the other rubbish they spout. It's just that the powers that be have fashioned the narrative that travellers are victims, and that it's the 'white man' / 'blue eyed' - 'country' people that have held the traveller folk back , and it's up to the "settled person" :rolleyes: to improve the lot of our not very peripathetic (most of them live in houses nowadays) brethren...

And then there's the sickening use of insert "black person" , "muslim" etc.... and "this wouldn't be tolerated" . The truth wouldn't be tolerated :pac: FFS

Plus the fact that they are seemingly allowed to disparage real world accounts from posters without any criticism from on high:

Poster: "I got my ass handed to me by travellers... reported it to the Gardaí, and nothing happened."
Pro-Traveller Poster in response: "It never happened"

The mind truly boggles

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Something I've noticed on here, and am amazed/bemused by; when it comes to these kinds of threads..

Ya'd have to wonder about some of the posters on here, and consider if they've:

*Ever lived beside/had any dealings with travellers
*Have sociology degrees
*Possibly work for an NGO, or two

It seems some of them are so far removed from reality that they can't even begin to comprehend that the majority of folk actually do have 'real world' experience of Travellers. I actually believe that they do believe this..

I don't believe however; that they believe a lot of the other rubbish they spout. It's just that the powers that be have fashioned the narrative that travellers are victims, and that it's the 'white man' / 'blue eyed' - 'country' people that have held the traveller folk back , and it's up to the "settled person" :rolleyes: to improve the lot of our not very peripathetic (most of them live in houses nowadays) brethren...

And then there's the sickening use of insert "black person" , "muslim" etc.... and "this wouldn't be tolerated" . The truth wouldn't be tolerated :pac: FFS

Plus the fact that they are seemingly allowed to disparage real world accounts from posters without any criticism from on high:

Poster: "I got my ass handed to me by travellers... reported it to the Gardaí, and nothing happened."
Pro-Traveller Poster in response: "It never happened"

The mind truly boggles

Yes, and I think that these types (pro multiculture, Traveller ect) were unpleasantly surprised, not to mention shocked by the fact that 333'000 people actually voted for Peter Casey solely on his statements about the Travellers. Had the presidential campaign ran for longer, I'm sure that a lot more voters would have given Peter their vote as well. A lot of People in this Country feel that no one represents them, their views and opinions dont count, and a relatively tiny minority decide / dictate what is happening the majority.

jmreire

jmreire wrote: »

Yes, and I think that these types (pro multiculture, Traveller ect) were unpleasantly surprised, not to mention shocked by the fact that 333'000 people actually voted for Peter Casey solely on his statements about the Travellers. Had the presidential campaign ran for longer, I'm sure that a lot more voters would have given Peter their vote as well. A lot of People in this Country feel that no one represents them, their views and opinions dont count, and a relatively tiny minority decide / dictate what is happening the majority.

So true unfortunately.... There is no real "representation". Those who are in power/living in their 'Ivory Towers' aint looking out for our best interests... Never were, I suppose..

An odd sop here and there is all

JimmyVik

corner of hells wrote: »

How did you get into a women's refuge ? They're normally incredibly strict with access to them.

I was in a womens refuge and in came a family of travellers.
They were gone the next morning along with all the purses and money that anyone in the place had in their pockets.

Sleepy

I've never been to the US but based on my limited knowledge derived from it's media output, literature and what I've seen online, it would seem to me that a much more accurate analogue for the Irish traveller culture in American society would be the "white trash" trailer park redneck rather than the black community.

Both are subsets of a wider population that refuse to adhere to the expectations of the wider population (respecting private property, recognising women as equals rather than chattel, encouraging their children's educations etc.) and calling this a "culture".

There's no genetic difference between the settled and travelling communities in Ireland and the awarding of "ethnic minority" status is no more than a well-intentioned but mis-guided attempt to improve their lot.