Report on High Percentage of Traveller Unemployment

Overheal

Fake Scores wrote: »

I'm not trying to present something you are saying. Either accurately or distortedly. I'm trying to impart some simple logic that might help you.
You can love and respect a person and still fear that they will damage your property. You're faulty logic is that if you fear someone will damage your property then you must implicitly also hate them. I mightn't let my neighbour into my house because on three previous occasions he has trashed my living room. Now I like the man. I admire and look up to him. I wish he was my friend. But I'm not letting him into my house because he is going to wreck it.

You and I are not discussing your neighbor though we are in this context discussing how you regard anyone of a certain neighborhood because of the actions of a subset of those neighbors.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

The TSA, and the NYPD, etc. etc. also had similar defenses to argue of racial profiling of blacks and muslims for pat and frisk, etc.

Does this argument, however, make the practice of racial profiling, not racial profiling? If it is racial profiling, how is that profiling not racist if the profiling is based on race? Or, in this case entirely, an Irish ethnic group.

Go away with that shyte! Me thinks you're trolling now.

You've not made one suggestion or comment other than to relate to WOKE issues and cry racism

Fake Scores

Overheal wrote: »

You and I are not discussing your neighbor though we are in this context discussing how you regard anyone of a certain neighborhood because of the actions of a subset of those neighbors.

By trying to change the subject we can take it that you now accept that
you were wrong to project hatred and bigotry into the mind of a man who
was minded and motivated alone to protect his personal property.

Overheal

Fake Scores wrote: »

By trying to change the subject we can take it that you now accept that
you were wrong to project hatred and bigotry into the mind of a man who
was minded and motivated alone to protect his personal property.

I have no idea what you are on about. I have been discussing pluralities. You wished to discuss an individual. We agree on judging an individual by their merits. And?

jmreire

Overheal wrote: »

The TSA, and the NYPD, etc. etc. also had similar defenses to argue of racial profiling of blacks and muslims for pat and frisk, etc.

Does this argument, however, make the practice of racial profiling, not racial profiling? If it is racial profiling, how is that profiling not racist if the profiling is based on race? Or, in this case entirely, an Irish ethnic group.[/QUOTE

Oh, no doubt it was definitely a case of profiling..but I'd be more inclined to think that it was more behaviour based profiling, based on previous experience. Not unlike the 330'000 people who voted for Peter Casey in the Presidential Election, based solely on his comments on Traveller behaviour. Actually, they voted for Casey as he was articulating their person experiences with travellers, all 330'000 of them.But I guess in your view, all 330'000 were racist profilers too...

wicklowstevo

Overheal wrote: »

Well, it is bigoted yes. The very nature of it.

By all means, be bigoted and racial profile if you think that’s how you have to work. Just be honest about the fact though and stop pretending Garda going around to warn pubs and hotels to close up for the travelers etc. isn’t segregationist. Because it is.

Don’t pretend you aren’t bigots though is all I’m at. Claim to be fair and then discriminate against travelers, isn’t on.

every ones racist except you ?

that's your point of view ?


what a guy

JimmyVik

We had travelers knock on our door a few years ago telling me our gutters needed replacing and he would do it for €40.
There was a loose one at the end.
I had heard of the con, so I said no, i'll do it myself when I get around to it. My OH called me racist for saying that (she was annoyed i hadnt fixed it before that anyway).
An hour later there is another knock on the door. This time its an elderly neighbor looking for a loan of a couple of hundred euro to pay for his gutters.
I went around to his house with him and his gutters were on the ground. Ripped off the house.
Two travelers (including the one who knocked on my door) standing over it demanding €400 to finish the job.
It turned out that they had told him he had a loose one and they would fix it for €40. He said ok.
Then when they had them off they told him they wanted €400 to finish the job (yes the price had increased x 10).
They were very intimidating.
I called the gardai and nothing even after an hour of a stand off with these guys on the neighbors lawn. He just wanted to pay them the €400 to get them to go away.
I rang a few other neighbors and eventually there were about 8 of us neighbors standing in the garden.
Eventually the travelers went away, but the neighbor was terrified they would be back. We fixed his gutters for him and hung around for the rest of the day.
The gardai called to his house 2 days later. Nothing ever happened over it from the gardai.
But about 2 years later same guy called again about our gutters. That neighbor had died since, but I dread to think how he would have felt had he opened the door that day to the same guy.

I have had many interaction with travelers through work and personal life and im trying to think of one that was a good one.
I can only think of one where I thought that the guy was a nice guy, but even that ended up badly in the end when he turned out to not be such a stand up citizen.

Overheal

JimmyVik wrote: »

We had travelers knock on our door a few years ago telling me our gutters needed replacing and he would do it for €40.
There was a loose one at the end.
I had heard of the con, so I said no, i'll do it myself when I get around to it. My OH called me racist for saying that (she was annoyed i hadnt fixed it before that anyway).
An hour later there is another knock on the door. This time its an elderly neighbor looking for a loan of a couple of hundred euro to pay for his gutters.
I went around to his house with him and his gutters were on the ground. Ripped off the house.
Two travelers (including the one who knocked on my door) standing over it demanding €400 to finish the job.
It turned out that they had told him he had a loose one and they would fix it for €40. He said ok.
Then when they had them off they told him they wanted €400 to finish the job (yes the price had increased x 10).
They were very intimidating.
I called the gardai and nothing even after an hour of a stand off with these guys on the neighbors lawn. He just wanted to pay them the €400 to get them to go away.
I rang a few other neighbors and eventually there were about 8 of us neighbors standing in the garden.
Eventually the travelers went away, but the neighbor was terrified they would be back. We fixed his gutters for him and hung around for the rest of the day.
The gardai called to his house 2 days later. Nothing ever happened over it from the gardai.
But about 2 years later same guy called again about our gutters. That neighbor had died since, but I dread to think how he would have felt had he opened the door that day to the same guy.

I have had many interaction with travelers through work and personal life and im trying to think of one that was a good one.
I can only think of one where I thought that the guy was a nice guy, but even that ended up badly in the end when he turned out to not be such a stand up citizen.

Sounds like you have a bigger problem with your police than anything there. Two day response time!? The roads were not that bad last I left.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

Sounds like you have a bigger problem with your police than anything there. Two day response time!? The roads were not that bad last I left.

A two day response time is awful, but are you seriously suggesting the crime committed was the fault of AGS?

TomTomTim

Overheal wrote: »

Sounds like you have a bigger problem with your police than anything there. Two day response time!? The roads were not that bad last I left.

Have you abandoned the "lived experiences" concept, Overheal? Or does it simply get dropped when you can't weaponize it to your advantage? This thread is full of "lived experiences" by people who've had negative interactions with travellers, yet you ignore everyone of them just so you can spout your illogical nonsense.

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

A two day response time is awful, but are you seriously suggesting the crime committed was the fault of AGS?

That’s not what I said and I’m scratching to figure out how you took that to be what I said.

I said a 2 day response by AGS is a bigger problem than one crime. Not sure where I said the crime was not a problem!

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

That’s not what I said and I’m scratching to figure out how you took that to be what I said.

I said a 2 day response by AGS is a bigger problem than one crime. Not sure where I said the crime was not a problem!

Hilarious.

You said the response time was the bigger problem.

You ignored the fact that a group of travellers operated a scam on an elderly person to extort money out of them.

Extortion being a preferred means of generating income in the travelling community. Like when they steal peoples dogs and demand huge amounts of cash to return them. Or their other interactions with elderly people, namely being the hell out of them when they are alone in their isolated rural homes and stealing their cash and valuables (see "FAT" Andy Connors gang, he himself was murdered by dissident republicans and was buried in a gold plated coffin). Won't somebody please think of the travellers?

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

Hilarious.

You said the response time was the bigger problem.

You ignored the fact that a group of travellers operated a scam on an elderly person to extort money out of them.

Extortion being a preferred means of generating income in the travelling community. Like when they steal peoples dogs and demand huge amounts of cash to return them. Or their other interactions with elderly people, namely being the hell out of them when they are alone in their isolated rural homes and stealing their cash and valuables (see "FAT" Andy Connors gang, he himself was murdered by dissident republicans and was buried in a gold plated coffin). Won't somebody please think of the travellers?

Yes because of those 2 problems, the AGS 2 day response time is a problem on a complete order of magnitude or more greater than the still extant problem of the criminal enterprise illustrated with the gutter scam. That’s all I said. I think you are trying to grind an axe at this stage is all.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Yes because of those 2 problems, the AGS 2 day response time is a problem on a complete order of magnitude or more greater than the still extant problem of the criminal enterprise illustrated with the gutter scam. That’s all I said. I think you are trying to grind an axe at this stage is all.

I think the feeling of helplessness left in the Aged people upon which criminals prey is the bigger issue here but your value system is obviously different to the majority around here.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think the feeling of helplessness left in the Aged people upon which criminals prey is the bigger issue here but your value system is obviously different to the majority around here.

You’re telling me the 2 day wait time from their law enforcement doesn’t contribute an alarming degree to the feeling of helplessness?

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

You’re telling me the 2 day wait time from their law enforcement doesn’t contribute an alarming degree to the feeling of helplessness?

Yes, Without the crime you don't give a second's thought to law enforcement.
Can you see how weak your position is?

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

Yes because of those 2 problems, the AGS 2 day response time is a problem on a complete order of magnitude or more greater than the still extant problem of the criminal enterprise illustrated with the gutter scam. That’s all I said. I think you are trying to grind an axe at this stage is all.

Are you suggesting that if the Gardai take that long to respond that they are to blame for travellers commiting crimes?

Do you have any knowledge of how under resourced AGS are in many parts of Ireland?

What you're saying is basically excusing criminal behaviour on the grounds of "when the cat's away".

You accusing me of grinding an axe is rich.

nullzero

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think the feeling of helplessness left in the Aged people upon which criminals prey is the bigger issue here but your value system is obviously different to the majority around here.

I've literally just heard from a family friend whose elderly parent was the victim of a burglary carried out by two traveller children aged under 10 years of age yesterday. Their parents were waiting in a vehicle nearby. You can't convict a minor. Down there for dancin'.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, Without the crime you don't give a second's thought to law enforcement.
Can you see how weak your position is?

What is “weak” about being concerned that you have a 2 day wait time for an emergency service!?

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

What is “weak” about being concerned that you have a 2 day wait time for an emergency service!?

You are putting the Garda response time higher in the order of importance than the criminal actions of these particular travellers. That is a dreadfully weak argument.

Remove the travellers from this equation, do you think such a scam is acceptable? If Anto and Deco from Ballyfermot were doing the same thing would you excuse it?

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

Are you suggesting that if the Gardai take that long to respond that they are to blame for travellers commiting crimes?

Do you have any knowledge of how under resourced AGS are in many parts of Ireland?

What you're saying is basically excusing criminal behaviour on the grounds of "when the cat's away".

You accusing me of grinding an axe is rich.

No and you’d be very hard pressed to show me where I was.

You are trying to use loaded questions to imply I am peddling such absurdities. It is just your own imagination.

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

I've literally just heard from a family friend whose elderly parent was the victim of a burglary carried out by two traveller children aged under 10 years of age yesterday. Their parents were waiting in a vehicle nearby. You can't convict a minor. Down there for dancin'.

You can’t convict a minor?

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

You are putting the Garda response time higher in the order of importance than the criminal actions of these particular travellers. That is a dreadfully weak argument.

Remove the travellers from this equation, do you think such a scam is acceptable? If Anto and Deco from Ballyfermot were doing the same thing would you excuse it?

If the AGS doesn’t show up for 2 days that criminal enterprise is allowed to do that to one house, two house, four house

Yes, it greatly exacerbates the nature of the entire problem.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

You can’t convict a minor?

Not a child under 12.

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

Not a child under 12.

And under 12’s dont transfer liabilities to parent or guardian?

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

No and you’d be very hard pressed to show me where I was.

You are trying to use loaded questions to imply I am peddling such absurdities. It is just your own imagination.

Very hard pressed?

It's implicit in your argument.

If you want to claim that's not what you are saying I'm left wondering what your argument is.

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

Very hard pressed?

It's implicit in your argument.

If you want to claim that's not what you are saying I'm left wondering what your argument is.

It’s not there no and I’ve very explicitly cleared up your implicit confusion so I’m not sure why you persist.

zeebre12

Why would they bother their arse working? They wouldn't be able to afford their new vans/cars if they did work.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

And under 12’s dont transfer liabilities to parent or guardian?

According to legislation that is correct, but in practice that isn't something that occurs with travellers. Hence the extensive use of children to commit thefts in their community.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

It’s not there no and I’ve very explicitly cleared up your implicit confusion so I’m not sure why you persist.

So you are now saying that the real issue here is the crime being committed and NOT the AGS response time?