Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

charlie14 · 21-04-2021 09:54PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Grand so, you've just proved that you don't believe in data determining restrictions. If you feel it encourages people to break restrictions and risk their no covid zones being put back in line with level 5 then you vastly underestimate how smaller communities would act after their areas have been fully reopened.

Cork, Leitrim, Kilkenny and Kerry have been consistently outperforming other counties in keeping cases low, so they should be allowed to open now instead of waiting for places like Dublin to get the cases low...
Don't need Gardai behind every bush.. trust the parishes, the villages and the town's residents to protect what they have achieved while they wait for the rest of Ireland to catch up.

It`s nonsense. What you are proposing is nothing to do with how smaller communities would act. It`s how others outside those communities would act.

What would your plan be for a county that has low numbers overall but has pockets that has higher numbers. Fence them off from the rest of the county.

hynesie08 · 21-04-2021 09:57PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Grand so, you've just proved that you don't believe in data determining restrictions. If you feel it encourages people to break restrictions and risk their no covid zones being put back in line with level 5 then you vastly underestimate how smaller communities would act after their areas have been fully reopened.

Cork, Leitrim, Kilkenny and Kerry have been consistently outperforming other counties in keeping cases low, so they should be allowed to open now instead of waiting for places like Dublin to get the cases low...
Don't need Gardai behind every bush.. trust the parishes, the villages and the town's residents to protect what they have achieved while they wait for the rest of Ireland to catch up.

So you'd have no issues with them applying the same logic up north??

Tenzor07 · 21-04-2021 10:15PM

charlie14 wrote: »

It`s nonsense. What you are proposing is nothing to do with how smaller communities would act. It`s how others outside those communities would act.What would your plan be for a county that has low numbers overall but has pockets that has higher numbers. Fence them off from the rest of the county.

"It's nonsense" to you, however regional restrictions have worked all over the world, local lockdowns in places like Australia have meant that residents are getting haircuts, drinking pints and going to football matches...Same thing here, let people from smaller covid low/free zones go to Church, play parish GAA games..

If there are any nearby pockets of higher cases then introduce full contact tracing, this is something which is already in place, but on a regional basis it can be very successful and will be much more effective at keeping numbers low than sledge hammer lockdowns...

Like I've mentioned, create "Green zones" or zones of low infection, smaller countries tend to have populations centered around towns and small villages where zero or 5 or 10 cases have been recorded over a period of time, months in many cases...If you're familiar with small towns you'll know the sense of community that exists there, everyone knows everyone else pretty much, hardly going to risk their fully open status for a bunch of people driving up from Dublin who rock up at the local small pub looking for pints and a room at the local B&B are they?

Del Griffith · 21-04-2021 10:56PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Like I've mentioned, create "Green zones" or zones of low infection, smaller countries tend to have populations centered around towns and small villages where zero or 5 or 10 cases have been recorded over a period of time, months in many cases...If you're familiar with small towns you'll know the sense of community that exists there, everyone knows everyone else pretty much, hardly going to risk their fully open status for a bunch of people driving up from Dublin who rock up at the local small pub looking for pints and a room at the local B&B are they?

Fantasy land.

Any 2 horse bog town opens its pub doors now and it'll be like spring break in Miami this Saturday night.

"Regulars only" ? Good luck there

Jinglejangle69 · 21-04-2021 11:25PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Jonathan seems to find it incredible that someone in Government can have a different opinion than the herd.

That right there is the problem with the media (and politics) in this country.

Excellent point.

moonage · 21-04-2021 11:52PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

I know several people in the last few days, declining the vaccine. I wont be a hypocrite here and then take this bull****, potentially dangerous vaccine! Why are the young and youngish being vaccinated ? They face virtually no risk. Could spend the millions saving more lives with suicide prevention etc

<Snip>

Random numbers with no source to back them up - you know what forum that belongs in don't you? Not this one

suicide_circus · 22-04-2021 12:04AM

MrMiyagi12345 wrote: »

Long time lurker. Im in my mid 30s, my friends and I have been ignoring these abhorrent restricions for a long time now. Currently planning a weekend in an Airbnb somewhere for the bank holiday weekend. Should be about 10 of us. Plenty available thankfully. Drove from one side of the country to the other last weekend for a 2 night break with friends. Not a guard on the road. I would imagine they're done with this **** show too.

The only way to deal with these stupid rules is ignore them as best you can. Above all don't listen or watch RTE. I and most others I know have been getting on with our lives as best we can and plan on doing so. The "sky is falling in" types can continue on locking themselves away but I'm done.

My freind group is the same age group as yourselves. A couple of us have been ignoring restrictions for months now but the rest of the lads were obeying restrictions. Last week this ended. We had a knees up and it was blissful. The guys who has been observing restrictions simply were no longer convinced. They lost faith in the mantra and the motivations. We never had a split or falling out. We all respected eachothers stance on the matter. But it's over now.

charlie14 · 22-04-2021 12:35AM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

"It's nonsense" to you, however regional restrictions have worked all over the world, local lockdowns in places like Australia have meant that residents are getting haircuts, drinking pints and going to football matches...Same thing here, let people from smaller covid low/free zones go to Church, play parish GAA games..

If there are any nearby pockets of higher cases then introduce full contact tracing, this is something which is already in place, but on a regional basis it can be very successful and will be much more effective at keeping numbers low than sledge hammer lockdowns...

Like I've mentioned, create "Green zones" or zones of low infection, smaller countries tend to have populations centered around towns and small villages where zero or 5 or 10 cases have been recorded over a period of time, months in many cases...If you're familiar with small towns you'll know the sense of community that exists there, everyone knows everyone else pretty much, hardly going to risk their fully open status for a bunch of people driving up from Dublin who rock up at the local small pub looking for pints and a room at the local B&B are they?

I`m very familiar with small towns, but I also know that counties do not just have small town and villages so where do you draw the line.
Off the counties you mention Leitrim would have one of the smallest county towns, if not the smallest, Carrick-on-Shannon. Carrick weekends before Covid was hen & stag party central.
Do you seriously believe if Carrick was in one of these "Green Zones" pubs, restaurants, hotels, B&B`s etc. are going to just cater to locals ?

I also know small towns well enough to know that Johnny when he`s back home from wherever drinks in a few local pubs with his family, pubs his family have drank in before he was even born, eats in a local restaurant and rocks up one weekend with friends from outside the "Green Zone" is not going to be refused service.

It`s nonsense and that is not even getting into those from pockets within this "Green Zone" with high numbers that will seemingly have no effect on transmissions due to contact tracing.

Charles Babbage · 22-04-2021 12:49AM

Irish restrictions look about right

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Graham · 22-04-2021 01:34AM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Irish restrictions look about right

Look at that, closest to the target zone for the 0% - 20% vaccination band.

moonage · 22-04-2021 03:31AM

moonage wrote: »

<Snip>

Random numbers with no source to back them up - you know what forum that belongs in don't you? Not this one

They weren't random numbers—they were UK Government statistics.

So, it's alright to talk about vaccines here as long as they're shown in a positive light. Anything negative is not allowed.

Penfailed · 22-04-2021 07:14AM

moonage wrote: »

They weren't random numbers—they were UK Government statistics.

So, it's alright to talk about vaccines here as long as they're shown in a positive light. Anything negative is not allowed.

Sauce?

FintanMcluskey · 22-04-2021 07:24AM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Irish restrictions look about right

Haha

13 months of being the worlds strictest most suppressed nation, we now look “about right”

If we were in lockdown until 2050 with food trucks delivering supplies, the same posters would continue to defend the same policies at all costs

OwenM · 22-04-2021 08:48AM

Degag wrote: »

So, what i said yeah?

If you are going to converse like a nine year old don't expect a response that adds anything to the conversation.

OwenM · 22-04-2021 08:52AM

charlie14 wrote: »

Other than using case numbers when looking at easing restrictions. what would you suggest Tossing a coin ?

Exactly the wrong thing to look at, large cohorts of vulnerable people are vaccinated, christmas could not happen again now.

Case numbers might be 1000 a day in August and we could be fully open. ICU, deaths and hospital numbers are the numbers to look at.

Gael23 · 22-04-2021 08:59AM

The problem with NPHETs call for less easing of restrictions is thanks to vaccination there is no longer the same correlation between cases and hospitalisation/death.
We can cope with a higher level of cases before hospitals come under pressure

timmyntc · 22-04-2021 09:02AM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Irish restrictions look about right

Weekly change in mobility is a pretty poor metric. Its a trend when we need an absolute.

If we stayed in extreme lockdown from December with no change until now, the trend would be 0% change in mobility. But we would be far stricter than countries that may have instituted some more restrictions (but still way less than us overall).

RGS · 22-04-2021 09:04AM

"Earlier, Mr Varadkar told an online event hosted by Goodbody Stockbrokers it was likely to be “June-July at this stage” before a further reopening of hospitality and indoor gatherings were allowed. He said plans for reopening more of society would be approved next week.

However, Mr Varadkar admitted that amid fears in Government that cases may rise in the coming days, he was “not as confident as I might have been a few days ago” about the pace of reopening. A further 401 cases and 15 deaths were reported on Wednesday.

The Tánaiste said the “experience of December-January” made Government “more risk-averse” on reopening."

Taken from the Irish Times.

Leo shooting down his own kites from earlier in the week.

We really have politicians who cant shut up when faced with a microphone.

ypres5 · 22-04-2021 09:11AM

Gael23 wrote: »

The problem with NPHETs call for less easing of restrictions is thanks to vaccination there is no longer the same correlation between cases and hospitalisation/death.
We can cope with a higher level of cases before hospitals come under pressure

Exactly, once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated then these strict restrictions become completely redundant. I never really understood the obsession with case numbers in the first place

Graham · 22-04-2021 09:13AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Haha

13 months of being the worlds strictest most suppressed nation, we now look “about right”

Did you look at a different chart?

Looks like we're now in one of the best positions to relax restrictions, certainly compared to many of our EU neighbours.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

If we were in lockdown until 2050 with food trucks delivering supplies, the same posters would continue to defend the same policies at all costs

That's just silly. :rolleyes:

FintanMcluskey · 22-04-2021 09:36AM

Graham wrote: »

Looks like we're now in one of the best positions to relax restrictions, certainly compared to many of our EU neighbours.

We were in the best position to relax restrictions in May 2020 knowing what we did about Covid and its danger to only the elderly

Having Europe’s youngest population was a better defence than any vaccine

Here we are though, with the economic prospects of Ireland absolutely obliterated, and continuing as Europe’s most suppressed country for a few more months “just in case”

I wonder will the permanent lockdown defenders on here disappear when the economic catastrophe becomes fully evident in Ireland? The whole “every country is the same” is total rubbish, even France has kept its businesses open despite its “strict lockdown” as reported by RTE

PeadarCo · 22-04-2021 09:46AM

OwenM wrote: »

Exactly the wrong thing to look at, large cohorts of vulnerable people are vaccinated, christmas could not happen again now.

Case numbers might be 1000 a day in August and we could be fully open. ICU, deaths and hospital numbers are the numbers to look at.

The other issue with case numbers is that they are a factor of the amount of tests done. Ie double the number of tests, double the number of cases all else being equal.

Even on day by day basis the numbers are not necessarily comparable. For example the walk in centers for Covid testing are in different locations and are in areas where there are relatively high numbers of existing Covid cases. If you close one centre and open another in a different location the case numbers are not directly comparable. So the graph tracking cases numbers since the pandemic started should come with a big health warning as it graphs data that comes from different data sets and are not directly comparable. That's not to say case numbers aren't useful but they are not the be all and end all.

Stuff like the positivity rate and increasingly the hospital numbers are just as important. They will only become more important as more people get vaccinated and the chances and incidence of serious illness from Covid declines.

The obsession with case numbers is becoming increasingly stupid as the vaccination programme ramps up. 400 cases today and the this time last year are two different things. Last year they were struggling to test everyone who had symptoms and now they are actively seeking out asymptomatic people in addition to the vaccination programme targeting at risk groups.

dalyboy · 22-04-2021 09:48AM

RGS wrote: »

"Earlier, Mr Varadkar told an online event hosted by Goodbody Stockbrokers it was likely to be “June-July at this stage” before a further reopening of hospitality and indoor gatherings were allowed. He said plans for reopening more of society would be approved next week.

However, Mr Varadkar admitted that amid fears in Government that cases may rise in the coming days, he was “not as confident as I might have been a few days ago” about the pace of reopening. A further 401 cases and 15 deaths were reported on Wednesday.

The Tánaiste said the “experience of December-January” made Government “more risk-averse” on reopening."

Taken from the Irish Times.

Leo shooting down his own kites from earlier in the week.

We really have politicians who cant shut up when faced with a microphone.

Yip
If deaths are not correlated to cases then the rise in cases is 100% irrelevant.
It’d make you wonder if this will urge NPHET to invent more creative methods to maintain the fear and worryometer.

Ahh
Correction
They already have a solution it appears.
Solution = storage of death number from 3-4 months ago to add to “the daily death announcement”

Example, yesterday .
“ Two of the deaths announced today happened this month, with three in March, six in February and four in January or earlier, while they aged in range from 56-90 years of age.”

Call me cynical but the line used by NPHET that the delay in recording of covid deaths was due to relatives of the deceased not reporting these deaths until too late is a little bit hard to believe.

Lumen · 22-04-2021 09:49AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

even France has kept its businesses open despite its “strict lockdown” as reported by RTE

Restaurants and cafes in France have been closed since the end of October 2020. That's almost six months continuous, which is longer than here.

Which "businesses" are you referring to, specifically?

Boggles · 22-04-2021 09:49AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

We were in the best position to relax restrictions in May 2020 knowing what we did about Covid and its danger to only the elderly

Having Europe’s youngest population was a better defence than any vaccine

Here we are though, with the economic prospects of Ireland absolutely obliterated, and continuing as Europe’s most suppressed country for a few more months “just in case”

I wonder will the permanent lockdown defenders on here disappear when the economic catastrophe becomes fully evident in Ireland? The whole “every country is the same” is total rubbish, even France has kept its businesses open despite its “strict lockdown” as reported by RTE

Jesus, utter falsehoods wrapped in perpetual doom mongering.

The pathological misery is being ramped up as restrictions ease and as more vaccinations go into arms.

It is truly bizarre, I imagine there is a simple reason for it though. I'm sure it will manifest itself eventually.

Boggles · 22-04-2021 09:53AM

dalyboy wrote: »

Yip
If deaths are not correlated to cases then the rise in cases is 100% irrelevant.
It’d make you wonder if this will urge NPHET to invent more creative methods to maintain the fear and worryometer.

Ahh
Correction
They already have a solution it appears.
Solution = storage of death number from 3-4 months ago to add to “the daily death announcement”

Example, yesterday .
“ Two of the deaths announced today happened this month, with three in March, six in February and four in January or earlier, while they aged in range from 56-90 years of age.”

Call me cynical but the line used by NPHET that the delay in recording of covid deaths was due to relatives of the deceased not reporting these deaths until too late is a little bit hard to believe.

I'd add conspiracy theorist to that.

Marty Bird · 22-04-2021 09:57AM

Just reading back over the thread and obesity is already a huge problem and will get much worse as this evolves over time.

It always makes me laugh the amount of people that work advising and who oversee our public health are in that category themselves.

It’s the elephant in the room.

Graham · 22-04-2021 10:17AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I wonder will the permanent lockdown defenders

There are none.

Talk of permanent lockdowns has pretty much exclusively come from the anti-lockdown posters.

normanoffside · 22-04-2021 10:24AM

PeadarCo wrote: »

Even on day by day basis the numbers are not necessarily comparable. For example the walk in centers for Covid testing are in different locations and are in areas where there are relatively high numbers of existing Covid cases.

They opened one in Kerry last week, Kerry has one of the lowest rates of Covid in Ireland.

Degag · 22-04-2021 10:30AM

OwenM wrote: »

If you are going to converse like a nine year old don't expect a response that adds anything to the conversation.

Slightly ironic don’t you think?

Throwing out cheap insults while calling someone else a child?

You took what i said and twisted it to suit your agenda, even though what i said was broadly in line with what you said which is why you got the response that you did.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings