EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

Fighting Tao · 08-04-2021 12:14pm

francogarbanzo wrote: »

Does your 1 year old have to show their vaccine passport to go to a restaurant or get a haircut?

No one has to in Ireland, so what’s your point?

Timberrrrrrrr · 08-04-2021 12:50pm

francogarbanzo wrote: »

Does your 1 year old have to show their vaccine passport to go to a restaurant or get a haircut?

Does anyone have to do that now?

francogarbanzo · 08-04-2021 12:51pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

No one has to in Ireland, so what’s your point?

My point is that nobody is upset about countries instituting vaccination requirements for crossing their borders. What they are concerned about is what Leo Varadkar envisions for Ireland:

https://www.irishpost.com/news/leo-varadkar-explains-how-vaccine-certificates-could-work-in-ireland-205432

Is he lying?

It's already happening anyway. We've learned today that fully vaccinated people starting in May will be able to get haircuts and use non-essential shops. They're going to have to prove that they're vaccinated somehow. If that "works," why wouldn't they extend it to indoor dining, pubs, etc.?

Ashbourne hoop · 08-04-2021 12:58pm

francogarbanzo wrote: »

My point is that nobody is upset about countries instituting vaccination requirements for crossing their borders. What they are concerned about is what Leo Varadkar envisions for Ireland:

https://www.irishpost.com/news/leo-varadkar-explains-how-vaccine-certificates-could-work-in-ireland-205432

Is he lying?

It's already happening anyway. We've learned today that fully vaccinated people starting in May will be able to get haircuts and use non-essential shops. They're going to have to prove that they're vaccinated somehow. If that "works," why wouldn't they extend it to indoor dining, pubs, etc.?

It was a suggestion in a newspaper, actually no more than a headline really. It's unworkable for many reasons.

The interview with Varadker was a month ago, and it was given as a posibility.

I can see some sort of vaccine passport for foreign travel, and possibly for large concerts/sporting events, but not for getting a haircut.

francogarbanzo · 08-04-2021 12:59pm

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

It was a suggestion in a newspaper, actually no more than a headline really. It's unworkable for many reasons.

I agree it's unworkable, and I'd take it a step further and say it's inhumane. Let's hope they come to that same conclusion.

Fighting Tao · 08-04-2021 1:00pm

francogarbanzo wrote: »

My point is that nobody is upset about countries instituting vaccination requirements for crossing their borders. What they are concerned about is what Leo Varadkar envisions for Ireland:

https://www.irishpost.com/news/leo-varadkar-explains-how-vaccine-certificates-could-work-in-ireland-205432

Is he lying?

It's already happening anyway. We've learned today that fully vaccinated people starting in May will be able to get haircuts and use non-essential shops. They're going to have to prove that they're vaccinated somehow. If that "works," why wouldn't they extend it to indoor dining, pubs, etc.?

I have no idea if he is lying or not. How could I? Politicians say a lot of things. Sometimes it's even to get the feel of how the population would respond, and it is not a commitment to do anything.

As far as I can see, we haven't learned anything for certain.

Fighting Tao · 08-04-2021 1:01pm

francogarbanzo wrote: »

I agree it's unworkable, and I'd take it a step further and say it's inhumane. Let's hope they come to that same conclusion.

"Inhumane"?

francogarbanzo · 08-04-2021 1:07pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

"Inhumane"?

Yes.

Fighting Tao · 08-04-2021 1:09pm

francogarbanzo wrote: »

Yes.

I'm intrigued. How would it be inhumane?

francogarbanzo · 08-04-2021 1:24pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I'm intrigued. How would it be inhumane?

Because if this goes where I think it's going, locking access to general society behind a medical procedure is wrong. I don't think it's moral to coerce individuals into getting a vaccine by the state denying them entry to shops, restaurants, sports events, etc. It's the opposite of a free society.

If an individual business only wants to open their doors to people who have been vaccinated, I don't think that's a good thing necessarily, but it's their choice and their business. If this becomes something like law though, and it's actually illegal to allow entry into your shop unless each patron has scanned in through their vaccine passport, then... well, I don't know what. The precedent that sets is unimaginably terrifying and the potential for abuse is massive.

If the vaccines work, we won't need to coerce people into taking them. They'll take them willingly.

sydthebeat · 08-04-2021 1:29pm

"thin edge of the wedge"... oh the horror !!!!

astrofool · 08-04-2021 3:33pm

So just to sum up, we have:

People who think that this won't happen at all, or just for international travel.
People who think it will happen, but will be temporary, and just for travel and big events, no one is sure if they'll try and apply this to hairdressers as we're not very good in Ireland at getting systems like this in place.

Then we take a left turn and it's:

People who think this is a plot to create a social scoring system and once it's introduced will never be dropped, so must be "resisted" at all costs.
Anti-Vaxxers who are worried that they'll have to get vaccinated to get back to going to pubs and cinema and to travel internationally, but they don't say they're anti-vax and jump in with the social scoring people.

spaceHopper · 08-04-2021 3:34pm

brenbrady wrote: »

How does the vaccine prevent transmission, I thought that a vaccine only prevents you from getting sick but you can still get infected and spread the virus?

That's my point, the passport has zero use in suppressing the virus, it has no magic power. Having the vaccine in arms is the magic power anything which puts people off it has to be bad thing.

Lux23 · 08-04-2021 3:37pm

I've had a vaccine passport since 2001.

08-04-2021 3:38pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I'm intrigued. How would it be inhumane?

if all your friends are in a cafe waving out and you cannot join them because for health reasons, you're not vaccinated.. a vector is a vector is a vector...
you can still pass it on yes??? hence no entry without a passport.. No sounds lovely..it will certainly boost ones mental health.

cannot go the gym, cannot travel. cannot go to mass and worship, cannot go browse in a shop...remember many cannot take avaccine so do they wait at home and join in on society when this is totally eradicated???

08-04-2021 3:42pm

astrofool wrote: »

So just to sum up, we have:
People who think that this won't happen at all, or just for international travel.

People who think it will happen, but will be temporary, and just for travel and big events, no one is sure if they'll try and apply this to hairdressers as we're not very good in Ireland at getting systems like this in place.

Then we take a left turn and it's:
People who think this is a plot to create a social scoring system and once it's introduced will never be dropped, so must be "resisted" at all costs.

Anti-Vaxxers who are worried that they'll have to get vaccinated to get back to going to pubs and cinema and to travel internationally, but they don't say they're anti-vax and jump in with the social scoring people.

We'll know from Denmark whether it's temporary or not. The Danish Government has said it will be temporary until the entire population has been offered a vaccine. So keep any eye on Denmark.

I think it's unrealistic to believe that it will be temporary. Too much money will be spent on it for it to be temporary.

08-04-2021 3:43pm

Lux23 wrote: »

I've had a vaccine passport since 2001.

To go to the pub?

08-04-2021 3:52pm

astrofool wrote: »

So just to sum up, we have:
People who think that this won't happen at all, or just for international travel.

People who think it will happen, but will be temporary, and just for travel and big events, no one is sure if they'll try and apply this to hairdressers as we're not very good in Ireland at getting systems like this in place.

Then we take a left turn and it's:
People who think this is a plot to create a social scoring system and once it's introduced will never be dropped, so must be "resisted" at all costs.

Anti-Vaxxers who are worried that they'll have to get vaccinated to get back to going to pubs and cinema and to travel internationally, but they don't say they're anti-vax and jump in with the social scoring people.

so the clever pragmatists in society are right wing and the nut jobs are left wing...that's the best point you've made by far as it's true.
MAGA!:D

bucketybuck · 08-04-2021 4:12pm

astrofool wrote: »

So just to sum up

It's not sums if you leave out half the data.

Bit cynical · 08-04-2021 4:26pm

seamus wrote: »

Israel has for some reason seemed to have decided to slow down its vaccine rollout and open up its economy instead.

Makes a certain amount of sense though. Once you've vaccinated a good proportion of the population (which Israel has) then deaths and serious illness from the virus go right down. What is the point in keeping the economy closed at that point? And once you've got deaths and hospitalizations down and the economy open, a lot of the urgency is removed and vaccine administration rates can slow down.

francogarbanzo · 08-04-2021 5:55pm

astrofool wrote: »

So just to sum up, we have:
People who think that this won't happen at all, or just for international travel.

People who think it will happen, but will be temporary, and just for travel and big events, no one is sure if they'll try and apply this to hairdressers as we're not very good in Ireland at getting systems like this in place.

Then we take a left turn and it's:
People who think this is a plot to create a social scoring system and once it's introduced will never be dropped, so must be "resisted" at all costs.

Anti-Vaxxers who are worried that they'll have to get vaccinated to get back to going to pubs and cinema and to travel internationally, but they don't say they're anti-vax and jump in with the social scoring people.

Yes those are the only 4 possible positions. Good one.

Real Donald Trump · 09-04-2021 4:57am

Well well

Seanachai · 09-04-2021 8:32am

rusty cole wrote: »

if all your friends are in a cafe waving out and you cannot join them because for health reasons, you're not vaccinated.. a vector is a vector is a vector...
you can still pass it on yes??? hence no entry without a passport.. No sounds lovely..it will certainly boost ones mental health.

cannot go the gym, cannot travel. cannot go to mass and worship, cannot go browse in a shop...remember many cannot take avaccine so do they wait at home and join in on society when this is totally eradicated???

Exactly, it wouldn't just be a restriction on not being able to browse your favourite hot sauce section, it would effectively be a ban on public human interaction.

Jim2007 · 09-04-2021 8:35am

francogarbanzo wrote: »

Because if this goes where I think it's going, locking access to general society behind a medical procedure is wrong. I don't think it's moral to coerce individuals into getting a vaccine by the state denying them entry to shops, restaurants, sports events, etc. It's the opposite of a free society.

And what kind of a society is it, if a vulnerable person who have been isolating etc for over a year can’t go into society for fear of of being infected by you, if there is insufficient medical care available to people who need it and so on. It’s OK for you to decide to visit that on the rest of us, so long as you get to do what you want is it?

Your rights are no more important than anyone else. Don’t get the vaccine if you don’t wish to do so. But by the same token don’t expect to be able to impose your decision on the rest of us.

09-04-2021 8:43am

Seanachai wrote: »

Exactly, it wouldn't just be a restriction on not being able to browse your favorite hot sauce section, it would effectively be a ban on public human interaction.

it's the equivalent of being handed a bell and calling "UNCLEAN" unless you are vaccinated and deemed..clean..well for 6 months until it runs out, or 2 months in some and 2 years in others as we are all human and as unique as the guy in America who has super antibodies https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-56324050

.. then it will be, we need a boost for the variants so where does it all end. If they go down this road, your doctor will be claiming you cannot come see him because you're risking the health of other patients, the health of the doctor and so on. If you're unvaccinated and choose to stay that way, you'll be zoom calling your Doc for a long time.. no that will be coercion.

AdamD · 09-04-2021 8:46am

Jim2007 wrote: »

And what kind of a society is it, if a vulnerable person who have been isolating etc for over a year can’t go into society for fear of of being infected by you, if there is insufficient medical care available to people who need it and so on. It’s OK for you to decide to visit that on the rest of us, so long as you get to do what you want is it?

Your rights are no more important than anyone else. Don’t get the vaccine if you don’t wish to do so. But by the same token don’t expect to be able to impose your decision on the rest of us.

What kind of society is it that locks their young away to protect their old, and then when their old are protected continues to lock their young away, unless of course they're needed to serve the older ones in restaurants they themselves aren't allowed attend?

Its absolutely mental.

francogarbanzo · 09-04-2021 9:08am

Jim2007 wrote: »

And what kind of a society is it, if a vulnerable person who have been isolating etc for over a year can’t go into society for fear of of being infected by you, if there is insufficient medical care available to people who need it and so on. It’s OK for you to decide to visit that on the rest of us, so long as you get to do what you want is it?

Your rights are no more important than anyone else. Don’t get the vaccine if you don’t wish to do so. But by the same token don’t expect to be able to impose your decision on the rest of us.

Please think this through some more.

FileNotFound · 09-04-2021 9:13am

Get a system up and running, it will allow businesses to open for the summer, getting some people back to work and reducing the future tax burden.

Nothing invented now will last for that long, it will be a half arsed shambles at best when set up and then will be got rid of as it becomes a political nightmare.

Let those that have a shot and are no risk to others make use of things that have been closed, it will really just help stop any mad queues at shops when they open and give the pubs time to set up and get staffed etc.

I say this as one of those who will be last on the list for a vaccine. Bitter pill to swallow indeed but better than being just bitter.

09-04-2021 10:17am

Jim2007 wrote: »

And what kind of a society is it, if a vulnerable person who have been isolating etc for over a year can’t go into society for fear of of being infected by you, if there is insufficient medical care available to people who need it and so on. It’s OK for you to decide to visit that on the rest of us, so long as you get to do what you want is it?

Your rights are no more important than anyone else. Don’t get the vaccine if you don’t wish to do so. But by the same token don’t expect to be able to impose your decision on the rest of us.

The Universal Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights states
"The interests and welfare of the individual should have priority over the sole interest of science or society."

Hitler famously said: “The common good before the individual good.”
History has showed us how the collectivist mindset is the cornerstone to authoritarian regimes which is why we have the UNCHR that was drafted after WW2.

My understanding is that whether you're vaccinated or not, you can still get infected and spread the virus, vaccines don't stop infection just reduce the risk of a person getting seriously ill. So how does a vaccine passport prevent transmission and reduce death rates which is the real question?

09-04-2021 10:22am

Can you imagine not wanting a vaccine and being totally coerced to get one for fear you say cannot visit your grandad anymore in a home as you're a threat to him, the staff, the florist you wanted to buy flowers from on the way to see him or even the Cafe owner who'm you've asked if you could used the toilet because you really need to go!! ALL off limits until you SEE SENSE and take the vaccine then get your passport to be show upon entry.

It's now been called a Vaccine BONUS..be a good person and you'll get a BONUS..that's physche speak think tank bull****, from the mouths of terry prone and the likes..it's not a passport guys or an ID, it' a Bonus....suffering Jesus!

FileNotFound · 09-04-2021 10:33am

rusty cole wrote: »

Can you imagine not wanting a vaccine and being totally coerced to get one for fear you say cannot visit your grandad anymore in a home as you're a threat to him, the staff, the florist you wanted to buy flowers from on the way to see him or even the Cafe owner who'm you've asked if you could used the toilet because you really need to go!! ALL off limits until you SEE SENSE and take the vaccine then get your passport to be show upon entry.

It's now been called a Vaccine BONUS..be a good person and you'll get a BONUS..that's physche speak think tank bull****, from the mouths of terry prone and the likes..it's not a passport guys or an ID, it' a Bonus....suffering Jesus!

I would have thought that non vaccination would merely mean that we have similar limits to what everyone had last year during the good period in the summer.

Then vaccinated people could be packed in tighter making businesses more viable etc.

To date I have seen nothing to say some new drastic totalitarian regime is coming, just that distancing and masks could be relaxed for the vaccinated.

I'll have to wait for my shot but see no issue with those who are vaccinated getting our economy going again. In the end when most of the population is vaccinated the few antivax will be let off as they will pose limited to no risk anymore.

09-04-2021 10:41am

rusty cole wrote: »

Can you imagine not wanting a vaccine and being totally coerced to get one for fear you say cannot visit your grandad anymore in a home as you're a threat to him, the staff, the florist you wanted to buy flowers from on the way to see him or even the Cafe owner who'm you've asked if you could used the toilet because you really need to go!! ALL off limits until you SEE SENSE and take the vaccine then get your passport to be show upon entry.

It's now been called a Vaccine BONUS..be a good person and you'll get a BONUS..that's physche speak think tank bull****, from the mouths of terry prone and the likes..it's not a passport guys or an ID, it' a Bonus....suffering Jesus!

Pure patronizing like you’d say to a child eat all your dinner and then you’ll get a treat. They’re even giving out badges to people after vaccine grown adults!! It’s like kindergarden.

09-04-2021 10:53am

All this nonsense will be quickly forgotten about once deaths and hospital numbers start falling across the globe.

And thank god!

I can’t wait to return to a world where it’s ok to stand outside with some friends and talk.

crossmolinalad · 09-04-2021 10:55am

francogarbanzo wrote: »

My point is that nobody is upset about countries instituting vaccination requirements for crossing their borders. What they are concerned about is what Leo Varadkar envisions for Ireland:

https://www.irishpost.com/news/leo-varadkar-explains-how-vaccine-certificates-could-work-in-ireland-205432

Is he lying?

It's already happening anyway. We've learned today that fully vaccinated people starting in May will be able to get haircuts and use non-essential shops. They're going to have to prove that they're vaccinated somehow. If that "works," why wouldn't they extend it to indoor dining, pubs, etc.?

and what of all the shop owners and their employees??? are they all vaccinated or are they not allowed in their own shop because they are not vaccinated
It wont work before everyone had got a chance to get a vaccination

crossmolinalad · 09-04-2021 10:59am

Lux23 wrote: »

I've had a vaccine passport since 2001.

nice for you but you dont need to show it for entering a pub , restaurant ,shop or concert ect

growleaves · 09-04-2021 11:10am

Rutgers, Cornell and few other US universities are requiring vaccination for enrollment

Rutgers, Cornell mandate COVID-19 vaccines for students. Is this the new norm for college?

There are special exemptions for a few but this is still pretty bad.

The use of force and ultimatums seems to be the go-to for everything now.

09-04-2021 11:46am

growleaves wrote: »

Rutgers, Cornell and few other US universities are requiring vaccination for enrollment

Rutgers, Cornell mandate COVID-19 vaccines for students. Is this the new norm for college?

There are special exemptions for a few but this is still pretty bad.

The use of force and ultimatums seems to be the go-to for everything now.

Covid-19 vaccines are already proven effective, and my hope is that they're proven to be long-term safe. mRNA vaccines in particular have incredible potential for human medicine if so.

That said, nobody actually knows if they are long-term safe yet. It seems to me that institutions and governments, by making vaccines all but mandatory for anyone wanting to retrieve their freedoms, could be opening themselves up to the litigation that pharmaceutical companies have been given immunity to should any long-term safety issues arise.

astrofool · 09-04-2021 12:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Covid-19 vaccines are already proven effective, and my hope is that they're proven to be long-term safe. mRNA vaccines in particular have incredible potential for human medicine if so.

That said, nobody actually knows if they are long-term safe yet. It seems to me that institutions and governments, by making vaccines all but mandatory for anyone wanting to retrieve their freedoms, could be opening themselves up to the litigation that pharmaceutical companies have been given immunity to should any long-term safety issues arise.

In the EU under Conditional Marketing Approval that all COVID vaccines so far have approval under, the company making the medicine accepts liability, not the governments.

eeepaulo · 09-04-2021 12:44pm

AdamD wrote: »

What kind of society is it that locks their young away to protect their old, and then when their old are protected continues to lock their young away, unless of course they're needed to serve the older ones in restaurants they themselves aren't allowed attend?

Its absolutely mental.

All the young ones at the back of the queue are going to be applying to work in pubs.

09-04-2021 12:58pm

astrofool wrote: »

In the EU under Conditional Marketing Approval that all COVID vaccines so far have approval under, the company making the medicine accepts liability, not the governments.

Sure. But legal culpability can change if the government or institutional body compels or coerces people to take the medical treatment by, for example, making the medical treatment a pre-requisite to participating in a full and free life.

francogarbanzo · 09-04-2021 1:05pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGgvgKE0n8o

Famous anti-vax conspiracy theorist (obvious sarcasm) Russel Brand's take.

titan18 · 09-04-2021 1:11pm

crossmolinalad wrote: »

nice for you but you dont need to show it for entering a pub , restaurant ,shop or concert ect

Ya, there's a big difference really. Vaccine passports for travelling internationally, I can actually understand. I know some will still be against that, but it's already the case for a lot of countries, it's just atm we've never needed it within the EU or the US so most would never have noticed they've always been there. Personally, I wouldn't mind needing to be vaccinated to travel internationally, especially later this year and next year as every country gets vaccinated.

For everyday life things like getting a haircut, going to a restaurant/bar or heading to a shop, it's far more restrictive. You can live your live without international travel, you can't really without the above.

Ashbourne hoop · 09-04-2021 1:21pm

titan18 wrote: »

Ya, there's a big difference really. Vaccine passports for travelling internationally, I can actually understand. I know some will still be against that, but it's already the case for a lot of countries, it's just atm we've never needed it within the EU or the US so most would never have noticed they've always been there. Personally, I wouldn't mind needing to be vaccinated to travel internationally, especially later this year and next year as every country gets vaccinated.

For everyday life things like getting a haircut, going to a restaurant/bar or heading to a shop, it's far more restrictive. You can live your live without international travel, you can't really without the above.

I can see it happening for international travel, some countries already require vaccine passports for entry. Big sporting/music events possibly too, may be more short term too. For everyday things like going for a pint or a haircut ? I don't see it happening. It'll be a nightmare trying to police and admin for.

astrofool · 09-04-2021 1:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure. But legal culpability can change if the government or institutional body compels or coerces people to take the medical treatment by, for example, making the medical treatment a pre-requisite to participating in a full and free life.

Legal culpability for administering an approved medicine cannot change by making it a pre-requisite. The only way it can change is if they withdraw the approval and approve under a different mechanism (all medicine applied up to that point would still have liability with the manufacturer).

titan18 · 09-04-2021 1:35pm

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

I can see it happening for international travel, some countries already require vaccine passports for entry. Big sporting/music events possibly too, may be more short term too. For everyday things like going for a pint or a haircut ? I don't see it happening. It'll be a nightmare trying to police and admin for.

Ya, I'd hope so, but it also just wouldn't surprise me at this stage. I'd be ok with for travel, particularly if it rules out needing tests (I'm hoping September/October for this) and then things like sporting/events this year or early 2022 as more vaccines happen and things get under control internationally again.

growleaves · 09-04-2021 1:36pm

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

I can see it happening for international travel, some countries already require vaccine passports for entry. Big sporting/music events possibly too, may be more short term too. For everyday things like going for a pint or a haircut ? I don't see it happening. It'll be a nightmare trying to police and admin for.

No one knows thus far. The important thing atm is to be opposed to a system of digital-ID control since we all help to create the world we live in by our choices and what we accept as moral.

ddarcy · 09-04-2021 1:37pm

growleaves wrote: »

Rutgers, Cornell and few other US universities are requiring vaccination for enrollment

Rutgers, Cornell mandate COVID-19 vaccines for students. Is this the new norm for college?

There are special exemptions for a few but this is still pretty bad.

The use of force and ultimatums seems to be the go-to for everything now.

Having gone to university in the US, every university requires a minimum vaccination in order to attend (hepatitis, measles,etc).This is nothing new. Just adding to the list. This has been going on for 50+ years. Same with going to any public school. If you don’t want to be vaccinated then you’re home schooled.

Jim2007 · 10-04-2021 4:03am

AdamD wrote: »

What kind of society is it that locks their young away to protect their old, and then when their old are protected continues to lock their young away, unless of course they're needed to serve the older ones in restaurants they themselves aren't allowed attend?

Its absolutely mental.

We have no idea what so ever of the consequences of have had this virus are, it could be none or it could cause long term health issues. When you have no idea of the consequences, you take the minimum risk necessary not the maximum available.

Jim2007 · 10-04-2021 4:27am

ddarcy wrote: »

Having gone to university in the US, every university requires a minimum vaccination in order to attend (hepatitis, measles,etc).This is nothing new. Just adding to the list. This has been going on for 50+ years. Same with going to any public school. If you don’t want to be vaccinated then you’re home schooled.

The first thing I got when I went to a Swiss doctor over 30 years ago was a vaccination card. Which has been updated every time I got a jab since then. And yes, vacations are required for school and college.

The amusing thing is that the Irish and UK government’s hold and widely share far more data about their citizens than most other countries do! They have to in order to accurately identify an individual. And that information needs to be available to even junior people in order to do their job. It can’t even be properly audited since it’s availability needs to be so wide spread.

arccosh · 10-04-2021 7:31am

ddarcy wrote: »

Having gone to university in the US, every university requires a minimum vaccination in order to attend (hepatitis, measles,etc).This is nothing new. Just adding to the list. This has been going on for 50+ years. Same with going to any public school. If you don’t want to be vaccinated then you’re home schooled.

most visas for the US where you're staying over the normal "holiday period" require proof of vaccinations...

which was a real pain when I was applying for a visa, as the change from regional health boards to the HSE meant records were lost or didnt match up....

if I didn't have proof, I'd have to get them done again...

A lot of countries have this in place, we don't see in in Europe as much as it's part of being in the Union that it's assumed you are vaccinated as per EU health requirements for free travel..... and even if you're not, there's heard immunity which will help suppress any outbreaks of anything....

the UK after leaving the EU actually have a similar vaccine requirement for some of their new Visas

EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

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