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EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 68,333 ✭✭✭✭ seamus


    This is sure to rile up the usual suspects who think the EU is trying to control their brains.

    Quick answers to obvious questions:

    No, this cannot be used to stop you moving within the EU

    No, this cannot be used to force anyone to get vaccinated


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ ShatterAlan


    seamus wrote: »
    This is sure to rile up the usual suspects who think the EU is trying to control their brains.

    Quick answers to obvious questions:

    No, this cannot be used to stop you moving within the EU

    No, this cannot be used to force anyone to get vaccinated


    Are you sure about that?


    Sure you can't be prevented from just walking across the border from Belgium to Holland but just like liquids, body scans etc I can see people being refused boarding on planes if they don't have the required vaccine passport.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,333 ✭✭✭✭ seamus


    I can't see it.

    Controls are rarely put in place at the point of departure. If Denmark doesn't want to accept unvaccinated people, it cannot stop them boarding planes, it can only stop them when they land.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭ hmmm


    Sure you can't be prevented from just walking across the border from Belgium to Holland but just like liquids, body scans etc I can see people being refused boarding on planes if they don't have the required vaccine passport.
    Yeah I think that's how it will be used. It mentions children in the document, but it could easily be extended to adults. It'd be a simple way to get tourism and business travel safely restarted. There are precedents - some countries require travelers to have certain vaccinations.

    No more foreign trips for anti-vaxers, I could live with that in these extraordinary times.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭ hmmm


    seamus wrote: »
    I can't see it.

    Controls are rarely put in place at the point of departure. If Denmark doesn't want to accept unvaccinated people, it cannot stop them boarding planes, it can only stop them when they land.
    Denmark will then fine airlines who send them unvaccinated passengers, and it will be checked at the departure gate by the airline. It's how it works with illegal immigrants currently.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,619 ✭✭✭✭ ILoveYourVibes


    Good idea. All for it.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko


    Although seamus is guessing (no source = guessing :P) I am inclined to agree that this probably won't mean restrictions on travel, at least not intentionally.

    I think this is EU's "Carte Jaune"


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko


    Circling back to this 8 months later.

    A new proposal could see the European Union roll-out a vaccine passport for people who have been inoculated against the coronavirus.

    Denmark, Sweden to issue digital vaccine ‘passports’
    The two Nordic countries both said the certificates would be designed to enable citizens to travel aboard, but also hinted they could potentially be used to check whether someone was vaccinated if they were attending something like a sports or cultural event.

    "Immunity passports" were a concept floated early on in the pandemic to allow people who were presumed to be immune to COVID-19 to freely circulate in society.
    With the advent of a vaccine, the idea has further evolved to encompass immunity through proof of vaccination.

    However, the official messaging about the validity of these so-called "digital health passports" - or "vaccine passports" as they are becoming known - is at present a little confusing.
    The World Health Organization (WHO) itself appears at odds with its own recommendations.

    It's still unclear how this will be implemented but now it's a possibility.


    https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210205-denmark-sweden-to-issue-digital-vaccine-passports
    https://www.newstalk.com/news/eu-outlines-plan-for-vaccine-passports-1137809
    https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/eu-affairs/149844/eu-considers-covid-19-vaccination-passport-to-travel-ursula-von-der-leyen-commission-germany-kyriakos-mitsotakis/
    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2020/12/11/do-we-need-coronavirus-vaccine-passports-to-get-the-world-moving-again-euronews-asks-the-e


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,634 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    The current and future variants may put the kybosh on all of this. It is very much a 2020-early 2021 reaction to COVID. The parts that could work are a bit like the solid elements of a sieve! It may well end up a "simple idea" decided by committee with an EU treaty sized tome of 2000 pages of clarifications. Vaccination data will tell us if it's even needed.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 62,311 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Beasty


    A little ahead of themselves. At this stage all we know is vaccines offer some protection from symptoms. We do not know if they offer immunity from catching Coronavirus, and if someone vaccinated can potentially pass it on to others


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭✭ richardkeiths


    Surely a great idea to get us safely back to normality

    or

    Another way for Bill Gates to spy on the rich lives of boards.ie subscribers?

    Thoughts?


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,022 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    Surely a great idea to get us safely back to normality

    or

    Another way for Bill Gates to spy on the rich lives of boards.ie subscribers?

    Thoughts?
    It's only really of use if the country you are travelling to is vaccinated to a level to protect their vulnerable. Those vaccinated can still spread the virus so travel controls more based on destination.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    Can these re-reg accounts be immediately checked and dealt with?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,147 ✭✭✭ VG31


    It's only really of use if the country you are travelling to is vaccinated to a level to protect their vulnerable. Those vaccinated can still spread the virus so travel controls more based on destination.

    Evidence is emerging now that the chance of vaccinated people spreading the virus is greatly reduced.

    One thing that never seems to be mentioned about vaccination certs/passports is what about people who want to take the vaccine but can't for medical reasons? Is it just tough luck?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 57 ✭✭✭ richardkeiths


    VG31 wrote: »
    Evidence is emerging now that the chance of vaccinated people spreading the virus is greatly reduced.

    One thing that never seems to be mentioned about vaccination certs/passports is what about people who want to take the vaccine but can't for medical reasons? Is it just tough luck?

    very interesting indeed. Might require a unique classification


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,022 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    VG31 wrote: »
    One thing that never seems to be mentioned about vaccination certs/passports is what about people who want to take the vaccine but can't for medical reasons? Is it just tough luck?

    I suppose the hope is these figures will be incredibly low so will have less impact on society overall. Perhaps a new method of delivering the vaccine will be available down the road to these people.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 62,311 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Beasty


    Threads merged


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,621 ✭✭✭ MrMusician18


    It looks like these vaccine passports are now on the cards, which will allow international travel within the European Union. Mediterranean states which depend a lot on tourism are pushing for it, while other states are saying wait until the data on post vaccine transmissibility is available while the likes of the French government are saying that it would be unfair of one group could travel while the rest of us wait at home.

    If the policy was adopted here, we would see the medically vulnerable, health care workers allowed to travel at least initially. Personally, I think creating exceptions for one group before widespread vaccine availability is asking for trouble.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 26 ✭✭✭ Thornysheep


    It looks like these vaccine passports are now on the cards, which will allow international travel within the European Union. Mediterranean states which depend a lot on tourism are pushing for it, while other states are saying wait until the data on post vaccine transmissibility is available while the likes of the French government are saying that it would be unfair of one group could travel while the rest of us wait at home.

    If the policy was adopted here, we would see the medically vulnerable, health care workers allowed to travel at least initially. Personally, I think creating exceptions for one group before widespread vaccine availability is asking for trouble.

    Agreed. In fact, the whole idea is a bad one and likely doomed to failure. What if the vaccine requires an annual booster, will one be unable to travel while waiting for the booster? Anyway, I cannot see Macron agreeing to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,305 ✭✭✭✭ jimmycrackcorm


    Agreed. In fact, the whole idea is a bad one and likely doomed to failure. What if the vaccine requires an annual booster, will one be unable to travel while waiting for the booster? Anyway, I cannot see Macron agreeing to it.


    Why would it be doomed to failure? Without this, I can't see and possibility of foreign travel resuming for perhaps two years.

    People will want to travel.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,621 ✭✭✭ MrMusician18


    Why would it be doomed to failure? Without this, I can't see and possibility of foreign travel resuming for perhaps two years.

    People will want to travel.
    If it creates a two tier system it could cause she political issues, especially if it's adopted before everyone has been at least offered a vaccine.

    After that you'll then have people complaining that their rights are being infringed for refusing one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,425 ✭✭✭ token56


    Germany and France seem to have significant problems with anti-vac attitudes at present and it possible there will be a large enough minority of people who will never get vaccinated. I just can't see them agreeing to it knowing the potential backlash from such groups.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 19,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Mr.S


    I think yes it should be introduced for the short-term to allow those that have been vaccinated, a bit more freedom.

    But on the flip side, rapid testing should become standard enough that it allows who haven't been vaccinated the same level of freedom.


  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭✭ seansouth36


    Vaccine passports would be a good idea; without them you either just don't allow travel, or treat vaccinated the same as unvaccinated (testing/quarantines etc), which makes no sense. Greece aren't saying that people without vaccines won't be able to travel, just that there will be restrictions (showing up with a test result/random testing at airports etc). Those with 'vaccine passports' will avoid all that - which is a good thing.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 26 ✭✭✭ Thornysheep


    Mr.S wrote: »
    I think yes it should be introduced for the short-term to allow those that have been vaccinated, a bit more freedom.

    But on the flip side, rapid testing should become standard enough that it allows who haven't been vaccinated the same level of freedom.

    Talk about rubbing salt into the wound.:rolleyes:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 26 ✭✭✭ Thornysheep


    Why would it be doomed to failure? Without this, I can't see and possibility of foreign travel resuming for perhaps two years.

    People will want to travel.

    He's had one dose, she's had two doses, he hasn't had a booster yet, she has. And what if a new variant arrives that is not covered by all vaccines? It has the potential to be a terrible mess, an abysmal failure and a waste of money... which probably makes it a dead cert.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,778 ✭✭✭ goingnowhere


    The approach will have to be reasonable and thats the test for any legal challenge is how reasonable the restrictions are

    Vaccinated fully (in line with guidelines, no UK rule bending) i.e. at least 7 days post second vaccination or whatever is the EMA approval
    OR
    PCR test in last 72 hours

    To be reasonable all countries would have to offer the PCR test for free and same day, we can do that currently here under the HSE program as they are running at 50% capacity, but they won't allow walk ups or travel testing.

    I already have a vaccination passport, dogeared from hundreds of trips. Its yellow and tells the world I'm vaccinated against Yellow fever, diphtheria and some other nasty bugs. This is not new, its well established, its just we live in a part of the world where few if any would have had need of one


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭ ginoginelli


    He's had one dose, she's had two doses, he hasn't had a booster yet, she has. And what if a new variant arrives that is not covered by all vaccines? It has the potential to be a terrible mess, an abysmal failure and a waste of money... which probably makes it a dead cert.

    That can happen if we go looking for problems.

    But if we set out a very clear criteria it should work. It will be very similar to the yellow fever cert in s America.

    Overall it's a fantastic idea. Once people are vaccinated and not likely to spread either, let them get on with their lives.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,995 ✭✭✭✭ LuckyLloyd


    Vaccine passports are nothing new.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 26 ✭✭✭ Thornysheep


    That can happen if we go looking for problems.

    But if we set out a very clear criteria it should work. It will be very similar to the yellow fever cert in s America.

    Overall it's a fantastic idea. Once people are vaccinated and not likely to spread either, let them get on with their lives.

    I have had the yellow fever vaccine. It is still valid as there are no new variants that render it invalid.

    You don't have to look for the problems, they are right there blocking the way.


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