Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Risteard81 · 12-03-2021 11:31PM

Jofspring wrote: »

Ah Jesus, what a sickner, for the sake of a week. Just hope the missus doesn't find out.

LOL.

It should be pointed out that it is only to be done this way as a last resort, and not as a matter of course. They still would prefer for it to come from the main distribution board directly.

-oRnein9- · 13-03-2021 12:00AM

Just a follow up I had someone out to quote from phoenix today apparently regs have changed just yesterday no need to go back to CU.
Nice to get a bit of luck

asimp11 · 13-03-2021 01:30AM

Shouldn't really say this but I have done a few in the meter box before this new ruling came to pass. As most jobs needed work to be done in the meter box anyway. Safe elec got strict on the rule of putting a switch fuse in the meter box if your fuseboard was more than 3 meters away, so this little upgrade (most jobs needed) gave an opportunity to put a charger fuse in. This was approved by ESB two years ago, but has only just been agreed in full.

Summer8181 · 17-03-2021 12:06AM

Does the vw connect charger have load management built in or is it only prepared for load management.

If it is only prepared can my local electrician wire load management or what is involved?

Gatster · 17-03-2021 08:26AM

JimmyKane wrote: »

I had my Zappi installed this week and connected directly to the meter cabinet.

My house sounds like a very similar set up to yours. It would have been very awkward to connect the charge point to the fuse box inside my house, and would have involved drilling through a couple of walls and running a lot of cable around the house which I really didn't want to do.
I got Nigel M Daly LTD (evchargingstations.ie) out based on all the good reviews on this thread. They installed my zappi directly to the meter box. It was an incredibly neat install and I would highly recommend them. The lads arrived out a half hour early and had the whole job done in under 3 hours. Very neat job and professional service. They will cost you more, but you get what you pay for.

Do you mind saying how much the install was? I got a quote last week for the exact same at €600 for the installation itself, which to me a seems a bit excessive but I may well be wrong!

Summer8181 · 18-03-2021 12:40AM

ID connect charger has Dynamic load management
(Blackout Protection) ready

What do I need to do so this charger will have load management. Is it just simple wiring?
I have electric shower.

JimmyKane · 18-03-2021 01:20AM

Gatster wrote: »

Do you mind saying how much the install was? I got a quote last week for the exact same at €600 for the installation itself, which to me a seems a bit excessive but I may well be wrong!

Just over €1300. Basically I paid for the zappi and the grant paid for the installation, harvi and other parts.

asimp11 · 20-03-2021 10:00AM

Don't bother with load management, just have your electrician do a Cert 2 and then the ESB will upgrade your supply to 80Amp 16Kva. You will need this anyway in a few years time to plug in your home assistant robot!

The ESB desperately need this extra/off peak business since we all switched to LED lighting.

Risteard81 · 20-03-2021 12:27PM

asimp11 wrote: »

Don't bother with load management, just have your electrician do a Cert 2 and then the ESB will upgrade your supply to 80Amp 16Kva. You will need this anyway in a few years time to plug in your home assistant robot!

The ESB desperately need this extra/off peak business since we all switched to LED lighting.

Cert No. 2 is the industrial cert (well more accurately greater than or equal to 50kVA).

podge3 · 20-03-2021 02:35PM

Finally made my way through all this thread! I've probably forgotten most of it now.

Anyhoo, I got my first EV recently and have applied for the grant so will be getting a RECI sparky to do the install. I've been looking around at the bits that are required so I know whats being installed.

I purchased a second hand charge point that has no load balancing (I have a power shower) so I'll need a priority panel/switch. What is the difference between these 2:

https://www.meteorelectrical.com/distribution-control/consumer-units/boards/distribution-control/consumer-units-accessories-1/garo-1-row-shower-priority-metal-board.html

https://www.meteorelectrical.com/distribution-control/consumer-units/boards/distribution-control/consumer-units-accessories-1/garo-priority-shower-board-choose-priority.html

One is specifically marked for use with an EV, probably more suitable.

Something else I'm unsure about is DC protection. My charge point doesn't have this, my understanding is that until recently most don't. In the UK, the 18th edition update to the regs (722.531.2.101) requires the use of either a Type B RCD (with built in dc capability/detection) or “RCD Type A and appropriate equipment that provides disconnection of the power supply in case of DC fault current above 6mA”.

I can't find any indication that this is a requirement in Ireland but with electricity, you can't be too careful. Type B RCDs are hugely expensive so the separate DC monitoring seems more cost effective.

The more expensive priority board above says its "fully 18th Edition compliant" but it looks to have a type A RCD so must have a separate DC monitoring module to make it compliant. Unfortunately, I can find no confirmation of this.

Risteard81 · 20-03-2021 02:50PM

It has been a requirement for years that Type B RCD protection be used if 6mA DC leakage protection isn't present. Amendment 3 to the 4th Edition introduced the requirement and it remains in the 5th Edition.

The steel priority unit is to meet BS7671 requirements. Steel is not required under I.S. 10101. Really you should leave it to the REC to design the installation and supply necessary materials. Load management/balancing is far more sensible than a shower priority unit where possible with the EVSE.

podge3 · 20-03-2021 10:19PM

Risteard81 wrote: »

It has been a requirement for years that Type B RCD protection be used if 6mA DC leakage protection isn't present. Amendment 3 to the 4th Edition introduced the requirement and it remains in the 5th Edition.

The steel priority unit is to meet BS7671 requirements. Steel is not required under I.S. 10101. Really you should leave it to the REC to design the installation and supply necessary materials. Load management/balancing is far more sensible than a shower priority unit where possible with the EVSE.

Thanks for the info.

The sparks is doing the job and buying the bits, I'm just trying to educate myself a little. I agree that load balancing is better than a priority switch but my charge point doesn't have load balancing.

asimp11 · 21-03-2021 12:06PM

Use a REC with some EV knowledge. It's very hard to give an assessment without on site survey. For load balancing you will need a separate energy monitor that communicates with your charger (RS485). At present
I have not seen an ESB smart meter with this compatibility. Load balancing should only really be necessary if you have more than one EV charger. My approach is to upgrade the mains from the typical 63 amp setup. With 25mm meter tails, earth electrode spike, 16mm Earth bonding and a full Cert you can request a smart meter and install a separate CU in your meter cabinet that meets I.S 10101. This way your existing fuseboard (63amp) is not getting overloaded. There is a lot more to this but if you start at the safety precautions then design the load implications to suit your existing system. After all you are connecting a 50KW+ power source into your home electrics.

asimp11 · 21-03-2021 01:38PM

Basics. How your charger works.
So you have bought a 32Amp home charger. What's inside the box?
There are three large terminal in which to terminate your supply cable. This is usually minimum 6.0mm T&E cable, it may need to be bigger or SWA cable depending on cable run from your CU or meter box. You may also need to use a type B 40 RCBO if this is not built into your charger. Inside the box there is a circuit board with a large contactor/relay switch. This connects the supply to your cars inverter when charging. Looking at your cars charger plug these are the three large round pins in the plug, there are also two smaller pins in this plug that connect to the Chargers PCB board these are basically a sensing circuit that control the switching of the contactor. This operates in two ways, it has a high and low resistor to tell the car and charger when a connection is made. It also can send a sine wave signal to the car telling it how much power to take. You may also have some small Dip switches inside the charger to setup the following control. 1) select current output, Eg 7.2KW, 6KW, 4KW ... this might help for load balancing. 2) Enable data connection to dynamic load balancing monitor (RS485). This will vary the supply current dependant on other loads on your system. 3) Enable communication to other chargers on your system, these may be Daisey chained in a communal system. 4) You maybe able to enable smart features such as off peak control and network smart control.

So your charger is basically just a clever switch with some additional safety features that I won't bother you with.

liamog · 21-03-2021 03:26PM

asimp11 wrote: »

My approach is to upgrade the mains from the typical 63 amp setup.

It's almost always overkill for somebody to upgrade their supply to handle an EV charge point. We've handled two cars charging for around three years with a 32A charge point and a priority switch. I'd prefer to have a load sensing system instead but the priority switch has been fine.

podge3 · 21-03-2021 04:40PM

Thanks for all the replies.

While both charger and car are only 3.3 kw, I want the install to be capable of 6.6kw in the future if/when I change the car. It should be a simple swap out for a new charger.

While I have an electric shower, I don't think I need a priority switch with a 3.3Kw charger but I'm getting one anyway. 6mm SWA is being used.

Even @ 6.6Kw, I doubt if the priority switch will ever be used as I intend to charge at night.

Having read through all this thread, I think its shocking at how much the cost of a charge point has increased. I'm hoping to come in around the €600 mark for my install but it'll be a very basic charge point - its all I need as my Leaf has charge timers etc.

21-03-2021 07:21PM

Hi all.

Sorry if this is a recurring theme.

About to take delivery of first PHEV in April. I’ve applied for grant, one of listed electricians on SEAI site installed electric gates for me a couple of years ago, did a very good job so I’ll get him to install EV charging box.

Looking through reviews and reading some (not all) of this thread, I’ve settled on the Wallbox Pulsar plus. For those of you that know about chargers, is this a good choice? The reasons I selected it are, reasonable price, small and neat it fits into a space beside ESB box at side of house, it’s smart, has a 5m cable which suits where I park.

The downsides that I’ve read are, crap customer service, occasional software update issues, no digital screen on box, there are less expensive options.

All opinions greatly appreciated.

Risteard81 · 21-03-2021 07:47PM

Dav010 wrote: »

Hi all.

Sorry if this is a recurring theme.

About to take delivery of first PHEV in April. I’ve applied for grant, one of listed electricians on SEAI site installed electric gates for me a couple of years ago, did a very good job so I’ll get him to install EV charging box.

Looking through reviews and reading some (not all) of this thread, I’ve settled on the Wallbox Pulsar plus. For those of you that know about chargers, is this a good choice? The reasons I selected it are, reasonable price, small and neat it fits into a space beside ESB box at side of house, it’s smart, has a 5m cable which suits where I park.

The downsides that I’ve read are, crap customer service, occasional software update issues, no digital screen on box, there are less expensive options.

All opinions greatly appreciated.

SEAI don't have a list for EVSE installers - you need to go to the RECI list for that.

Wallbox Pulsar Plus is a good unit. Easy to sync to the app and you can control charging from this. Unit is hand-sized. Comes as tethered only.

21-03-2021 08:06PM

Risteard81 wrote: »

SEAI don't have a list for EVSE installers - you need to go to the RECI list for that.

Wallbox Pulsar Plus is a good unit. Easy to sync to the app and you can control charging from this. Unit is hand-sized. Comes as tethered only.

Sorry, in the FAQ on the SEAI site (https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/electric-vehicle-home-charger-grant/ ) under “Where can I find a list of certified installers”, there is a link to this.

https://safeelectric.ie/find-an-electrician/

Risteard81 · 21-03-2021 09:11PM

Dav010 wrote: »

Sorry, in the FAQ on the SEAI site (https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/electric-vehicle-home-charger-grant/ ) under “Where can I find a list of certified installers”, there is a link to this.

https://safeelectric.ie/find-an-electrician/

Indeed. That is the RECI register (other than those who have requested not to appear on the online search).

21-03-2021 09:17PM

Risteard81 wrote: »

Indeed. That is the RECI register (other than those who have requested not to appear on the online search).

Good to know.

Smee_Again · 21-03-2021 09:21PM

I’ve a zappi charger that trips occasionally in the middle of the night, is there any way for me to safely troubleshoot any potential issues?

It’s not the dishwasher/dryer etc as these aren’t tuning at the same time.

xl500 · 22-03-2021 09:13AM

Hi

Can anyone point me towards a source for a replacement

ABL Sursum EVCC I just want to get the EVCC Controller to replace one in a faulty unit

One like this seems to be almost impossible to get

https://www.orbit-surplus.com/product/used-abl-sursum-evcc-iec-61851-1/

Thanks
XL500

Calahonda52 · 22-03-2021 09:53AM

I have a ABL down stairs, 4 years old, not sure which version, it was never used as the house failed the reci test so never energised.
will try post a pic at lunchtime or tonight

KCross · 22-03-2021 10:02AM

Calahonda52 wrote: »

I have a ABL down stairs, 4 years old, not sure which version, it was never used as the house failed the reci test so never energised.

What was the nature of the fail?
If you limited the unit to 16A would it have helped?

Presumably you have had to make do with granny cable which is not a great idea long term.

xl500 · 22-03-2021 10:46AM

Calahonda52 wrote: »

I have a ABL down stairs, 4 years old, not sure which version, it was never used as the house failed the reci test so never energised.
will try post a pic at lunchtime or tonight

Are you selling it

xl500 · 22-03-2021 03:54PM

KCross wrote: »

What was the nature of the fail?
If you limited the unit to 16A would it have helped?

Presumably you have had to make do with granny cable which is not a great idea long term.

No Limiting it to 16A would have made no difference it was not a high current component failure the EVSE Controller itself has failed no output to the Contactor coil

whodeeny · 22-03-2021 05:17PM

I'm between the Electric Ireland EO Mini Pro (€1099) and the Zappi + Hub which I've been quoted €1400 for.

Leaning towards the EO Mini Pro. I only have 3 PV panels which generate about 0.5kW on a good, sunny day, so all the fancy extras for solar power management on the Zappi will probably be wasted on me.

Only thing I'm wary of is that Electric Ireland apparently are installing the Mini Pro Gen 1 with the Juicenet app (even though they advertise the Mini Pro 2 on their website). I've heard this app is pretty unreliable.

Does anyone here have any feedback on it?

I had to electricians out to survey the house, both were extremely keen on the Zappi over anything else but didn't have really strong reasons why you'd spend an extra €300 on it versus the EO Mini Pro. One vaguely mentioned quality and reliability being really good on the Zappi.

WayneEnterprise · 22-03-2021 05:20PM

whodeeny wrote: »

I'm between the Electric Ireland EO Mini Pro (€1099) and the Zappi + Hub which I've been quoted €1400 for.

Leaning towards the EO Mini Pro. I only have 3 PV panels which generate about 0.5kW on a good, sunny day, so all the fancy extras for solar power management on the Zappi will probably be wasted on me.

Only thing I'm wary of is that Electric Ireland apparently are installing the Mini Pro Gen 1 with the Juicenet app (even though they advertise the Mini Pro 2 on their website). I've heard this app is pretty unreliable.

Does anyone here have any feedback on it?

I had to electricians out to survey the house, both were extremely keen on the Zappi over anything else but didn't have really strong reasons why you'd spend an extra €300 on it versus the EO Mini Pro. One vaguely mentioned quality and reliability being really good on the Zappi.

I heard the v1 Pro app was awful - EO outsourced the app to a third party for the v1 whereas they built the v2 app in house. I went with the Pro v2 connected to solar. It’s been perfect so far but only using it since start of March, but it does have a 3 year warranty. Personally I wouldn’t go with the Zappi as it was big and ugly, whereas the Pro v2 is tiny and also connects to solar, so no brainer for me.

Gumbo · 22-03-2021 05:41PM

KCross wrote: »

What was the nature of the fail?
If you limited the unit to 16A would it have helped?

Presumably you have had to make do with granny cable which is not a great idea long term.

From memory Cala had issue around earthing or earth rod or some wiring upgrade that was very cost prohibitive and intrusive.

Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Comments