Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

TitianGerm

Risteard81 wrote: »

This still takes time - and often it takes a number of weeks for the credit note to come through. I've just received a credit note today for a return in September. I'm waiting on another one to come through for a part which was returned a month ago.

No comment on the rest of my post?

If you are collecting a part then it is not taking any additional time to drop off the return.

I'd also assume you have a line of credit with the wholesaler which generally is 30 days after the invoice date or for others 30 days after the month end.

You've already said you don't have to many warranty repairs so if you're waiting a few months for a credit note it's hardly costing you a fortune to wait on that credit note. Although in my experience reminding the store man that you're still waiting on your CN usually gets it done sooner but I would expect most wholesalers can issue a return on their till system when they get the part back and it is automatically attached to your account and a docket printed there and then.

Felexicon

Risteard81 wrote: »

I already pointed out earlier that I have never come across a Type B RCD in the format of an RCBO, but only as an RCCB. So if it needs a Type B RCD then it won't be an RCBO - it will be an RCCB and MCB.

You can order one from Garo direct but when I enquired about it I was told to make sure I had the credit card clear before going to collect it.

Gumbo

So can the electricians amongst us clarify, what RCBO/RCD has to be fitted to your typical 32a EVSE now?
A typical A class version can be got for €30 but these appear to be outdated based on current regs.
What’s the standard B Class version that you guys are fitting?

Felexicon

Gumbo wrote: »

So can the electricians amongst us clarify, what RCBO/RCD has to be fitted to your typical 32a EVSE now?
A typical A class version can be got for €30 but these appear to be outdated based on current regs.
What’s the standard B Class version that you guys are fitting?

So what's being mixed up here is the RCD type and the over current characteristic.

If you look in your fuse board you will see your MCBs will be B10, B20, B32 etc. This is over current protection type. The B is standard in domestic settings. But, as an example, if you were wiring a circuit that was going to have a motor running on it you would use an MCB with a C rating for over current protection. The reason for this is that the C characteristic allows for a rapid spike in current on start up.

You then have RCD types AC, A, B and F.
These indicate the triping characteristics under AC, pulsating DC and smooth DC faults.

Theres alot more you can go in to about it but I'm on a phone so can't link etc.

Felexicon

Gumbo wrote: »

So can the electricians amongst us clarify, what RCBO/RCD has to be fitted to your typical 32a EVSE now?
A typical A class version can be got for €30 but these appear to be outdated based on current regs.
What’s the standard B Class version that you guys are fitting?

Sorry

To answer your actual question.

As the vast majority of EVSEs now have DC leakage protection built in I find I mainly install type A RCD combined with B Characteristic MCB in the form of an RCBO

Risteard81

Gumbo wrote: »

Yes I was aware of that from previous posts on the matter.

Can you explain what’s the difference between this and a B Type RCD?

A Type A RCD can deal with alternating current fault currents, and also pulsating direct current fault currents. Anything above about 6mA DC will potentially blind the device and prevent it from responding to an Earth fault.

A Type B RCD, in addition to protecting against AC and pulsating DC, is also capable of dealing with smooth DC fault currents.

Type AC RCDs are no longer recommended, and in fact are banned in many countries. Any DC currents circulating can blind these devices.

Risteard81

TitianGerm wrote: »

If you are collecting a part then it is not taking any additional time to drop off the return.

Yes it is. There's quite a lot of faffing about on the computer and looking up delivery notes etc. It takes quite a bit of time arranging the credit note. You obviously have little experience of dealing with wholesalers.

Risteard81

Felexicon wrote: »

You can order one from Garo direct but when I enquired about it I was told to make sure I had the credit card clear before going to collect it.

Do you have a part number?

Summer8181

Is it a big job for local sparky to fit ev wallbox? Would he fit it in a couple of hours. It is 6 or 7 meters from switch board.

Risteard81

Summer8181 wrote: »

Is it a big job for local sparky to fit ev wallbox? Would he fit it in a couple of hours. It is 6 or 7 meters from switch board.

Without surveying the installation that's really unanswerable. It might theoretically be possible to install it in half a day if everything is straightforward, or it could be multiple days depending on what is involved and also whether remedial works are required to the existing installation etc.

Summer8181

Risteard81 wrote: »

Without surveying the installation that's really unanswerable. It might theoretically be possible to install it in half a day if everything is straightforward, or it could be multiple days depending on what is involved and also whether remedial works are required to the existing installation etc.

What issues could there possibly be? I'm no expert.

Is it not a simple to run a cable from switch board into attic and down the wall where I park the car.

Risteard81

Summer8181 wrote: »

What issues could there possibly be? I'm no expert.

Is it not a simple to run a cable from switch board into attic and down the wall where I park the car.

Your existing installation must not impair the safety of the works which are being carried out, nor may your existing installation be impaired by the works being carried out. In essence this means that fundamentals such as Earthing, bonding and neutralising must be correct. Also the meter tails will need to be of sufficient cross-sectional area. (This often is not the case with older installations, where really no additional works should be done without rectifying these things.)

It also depends what kind of condition your distribution board is in, and whether it can be added to or whether it may need to be replaced. Load management or interlocked contactors may be necessary depending on what other loads are on the installation.

Your requirements may require a cable to be buried or mounted on a catenary wire, or bringing a cable to wherever it needs to go within the building may not be straightforward.

This is just a very basic outline of some considerations which need to be considered to assess the installation. Electrical installation work is not simple - this is why it must be carried out by a Registered Electrical Contractor (REC).

2011

Risteard81 wrote: »

Without surveying the installation that's really unanswerable. It might theoretically be possible to install it in half a day if everything is straightforward, or it could be multiple days depending on what is involved and also whether remedial works are required to the existing installation etc.

^^^^ I agree 100%

People are often too quick to say what is involved when a proper survey is required. Some installations are in such poor condition that the addition of an additional load of this size can cause serious issues.

Summer8181 wrote: »

What issues could there possibly be? I'm no expert.

Is it not a simple to run a cable from switch board into attic and down the wall where I park the car.

A technical electrical question, lovely jovely
Your question may be better suited to this forum.

liamog

Felexicon wrote: »

Sorry

To answer your actual question.

As the vast majority of EVSEs now have DC leakage protection built in I find I mainly install type A RCD combined with B Characteristic MCB in the form of an RCBO

Thanks Felexicon, I guess we finally have a reason for why we see such a variance on costs between some simple installs with what appears to be the same equipment.

It never felt right that Company A were quoting €900 for supply and install of a given charger and Company B were quoting €1400 for the same (numbers are a rough idea). Thanks to the discussion the last few pages it looks like it's down to whether the charge point has been updated to include the built in DC protection.

Is there any simple question a consumer should ask when ordering the charge point to make sure they get one which results in the cheaper parts for the rest of the install, or is it enough to ask for one with the built in DC protection?

-oRnein9-

Not sure if this is the place to ask apologies if I should have created a separate thread

Im looking to have a zappi v2 installed how much would be reasonable for supply and install to a 5yr old house given that the consumer unit is located in the utility room on the party wall so appox 20m of a run to the esb meter cabinet most likely running the cable externally from the back of the kitchen.

Thanks in advance.

Gumbo

-oRnein9- wrote: »

Not sure if this is the place to ask apologies if I should have created a separate thread

Im looking to have a zappi v2 installed how much would be reasonable for supply and install to a 5yr old house given that the consumer unit is located in the utility room on the party wall so appox 20m of a run to the esb meter cabinet most likely running the cable externally from the back of the kitchen.

Thanks in advance.

This would be one of the extreme cases as you need to get the 6mm Sq. Cable from the CU to the location of the charge point.

Felexicon

Gumbo wrote: »

This would be one of the extreme cases as you need to get the 6mm Sq. Cable from the CU to the location of the charge point.

Or maybe not.

Safe Electric newsletter today says you can take power from the ESB cabinet for an EV charger.

Risteard81

Felexicon wrote: »

Or maybe not.

Safe Electric newsletter today says you can take power from the ESB cabinet for an EV charger.

RECI have also stated categorically that an isolator within 2m of the EVSE is required under all circumstances.

the_amazing_raisin

Felexicon wrote: »

Or maybe not.

Safe Electric newsletter today says you can take power from the ESB cabinet for an EV charger.

So how does that work as regards splitting the house supply? Normally you'd need to create a sub board with one fuse for the house and another for the EV charger

Say the house was on a 64A fuse. Would it have to be reduced to a 32A fuse to stay within the limits?

Felexicon

cruisey1987 wrote: »

So how does that work as regards splitting the house supply? Normally you'd need to create a sub board with one fuse for the house and another for the EV charger

Say the house was on a 64A fuse. Would it have to be reduced to a 32A fuse to stay within the limits?

New sub board with minimum 80A fuse. 63A for the house and then 32 for the charger.
Fit load balancing as needed.

Felexicon

Risteard81 wrote: »

RECI have also stated categorically that an isolator within 2m of the EVSE is required under all circumstances.

Wasn't even a question for me. They've said it all along.

Risteard81

Felexicon wrote: »

Wasn't even a question for me. They've said it all along.

I agree. But sadly many on this thread were adamant that it wasn't required. I have always maintained that it is required, and this further vindicates my view.

Also ,
I was told by someone that has fitted 100s of charge points to go with a 40amp50A isolator over the 32amp 40Amp.
He said he's seen them go crispy .

Edit-I'm brain dead

Gumbo

Risteard81 wrote: »

I agree. But sadly many on this thread were adamant that it wasn't required. I have always maintained that it is required, and this further vindicates my view.

It appears to be definitely required now but why did so many electricians for and certify without it?

liamog

Gumbo wrote: »

It appears to be definitely required now but why did so many electricians for and certify without it?

That small crowd Electric Ireland did a good number without them, it does seem to be one of the more pointless electrical requirements and appears to be a requirement unique to Ireland.
Does this make the bollard type installations completely unviable now?

Gumbo

BrownFinger wrote: »

Also ,
I was told by someone that has fitted 100s of charge points to go with a 40amp isolator over the 32amp.
He said he's seen them go crispy .

Please explain?
The chargepoint manufactures recommend 40a RCBO. Well some of them that I looked at.

Gumbo

Gumbo wrote: »

Please explain?
The chargepoint manufactures recommend 40a RCBO. Well some of them that I looked at.

I actually meant to write 50a over 40a
Thanks
will edit

Risteard81

BrownFinger wrote: »

Also ,
I was told by someone that has fitted 100s of charge points to go with a 40amp50A isolator over the 32amp 40Amp.
He said he's seen them go crispy .

Edit-I'm brain dead

I presume you mean 63A rotary isolator.

liamog

Mod Note: Before we go down the rabbit hole again, here's a thread in electrical discussing the isolator requirement https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058057675&page=7

Felexicon

BrownFinger wrote: »

I actually meant to write 50a over 40a
Thanks
will edit

Not calling this person a liar but that is certainly not my experience with them.