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Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

  • 08-02-2018 11:39am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,469 ✭✭✭ Soarer


    Thought I'd start a new thread seeing as I too lazy couldn't find another one.

    The ol' fella has the Outlander PHEV, and is looking to get a home chargepoint for it. She's 16A Type 1, but I'm suggesting he goes for a 32A Untethered Type 2 Charger to futureproof himself.
    He's gonna go through the €600 SEAI grant, sooooo......
    Where would/could/should he buy?
    Can he buy or does it have to go through the electrician?
    Can he buy from the UK and claim the grant?
    Can he/sparky buy secondhand, and just put in a total price of X "for supply and install" to claim the grant?
    Have Irish suppliers bumped up their prices because if the grant?

    Basically he's bugging the shizzle out of me about it, and I haven't a clue. It was a lot simpler without the grant! :P

    Mod Note:
    I'm going to apply a small part of the Electrical Forum charter to this thread.
    This thread is intended as a consumer level thread to discuss the requirements, installation and operation of home charge points.
    Posts containing info that a poster has done electrical work and that they are not a REC (Registered Electrical Contractor) will be allowed, but posts advocating work to be done without engaging a REC will removed or snipped. Use the report function if you believe a post is advocating works that are not allowed.

    • Although it is illegal for anyone other than a REC to carry out restricted electrical works the act of learning how this work is carried out, learning the various regulations relating to this work and acquiring technical knowledge is permitted. Answering electrical questions should not misinterpreted as encouraging people from taking this work on themselves.
    • What we want to avoid is answers to posts that simply advise the posters to employ the services of a REC without offering any other advice, assistance or making any explanation. This is most unhelpful, discourages discussion and can lead to promoting commercial organizations / companies (which is not permitted). Explaining an issue and making someone aware of potential risks In addition to advising that an REC is engaged is far more helpful.

    Repeatedly stating that a REC is required in response to a particular conversation without any further substantial info will result in cards.

    Would you get an EV charge point installed or use a home plug? 148 votes

    Get an EV charge point
    43% 65 votes
    Use 3-Pin home socket
    4% 7 votes
    Both
    0% 1 vote
    None
    0% 1 vote
    Home charge point with grant
    41% 61 votes
    Home charge point without any grant
    8% 13 votes


«134567198

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 29,376 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    Not answering any of your questions but something that might be useful in your case.

    You ask have Irish suppliers bumped up their prices because of the grant?

    Does anyone know if you have to buy from a registered list of suppliers to avail of the grant? If not, then would it be acceptable to buy cheaper from somewhere like UK, off eBay etc, and still qualify with an invoice of purchase?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Apply for the grant now and then you have 6 months to get it completed
    https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/electric-vehicle-home-charger-grant/

    I'd agree with the 32A option for sure.

    I'd agree with getting it untethered IF the Outlander came with a cable that you can leave plugged in, otherwise he will be sick of taking that cable in/out everyday. Alternatively, buy another cable (which is what I did). You can always sell it on after.


    I'm only speculating but I don't think the electrician would have to buy the charge point. Most electricians don't know what it even is. I suspect you can buy it yourself and produce receipts along with the electricians signed cert as your submission.... but I am guessing as I obviously haven't been through it.... has anyone been through it yet?

    The website does say, apply now and you will get the T&C's sent to you so I'd say you should do that asap and the fine print should answer your questions for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭ PaddyFagan


    Hi Folks,

    I can offer a little more - we’re midway through the process....

    My wife got a Mini Countryman PHEV at the end of Jan, she applied for the grant the day she collected the car via https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/electric-vehicle-home-charger-grant/

    Within a few days we had the letter back confirming the grant was approved. The grand requires the electrician is registered and a bunch of details on the form are completed by the electrician. The parts and labour costs both need to be recorded on the form, but there is no requirement that I can see that the electrician supply the wall unit.

    After a bit of searching around, we got in touch with http://carcharger.ie/rolec/ev-commercial-charge/ - they did a survey last night (the install is a little complex as the fuse booked is in the middle of the house, with a lot of concrete between it and the driveway!) but they’re supplying everything.

    Hoping they’ll be out to do the install next week, we’re just waiting on a confirmed day.

    Paddy


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,469 ✭✭✭ Soarer


    Fair play Paddy.

    Not to put the frighteners up you, but I found carcharger to be an absolute disaster to deal with, and I wouldn't trust them to mind a skirting board ladder.

    Hopefully you'll have a better experience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,298 ✭✭✭ lafors


    For those who've bought the chargers themselves where did you buy and what other equipment did you need?
    I'd hope to get it all done within the €600, not €999 like some companies are quoting!

    FYI my main fuseboard is right in the front corner of my house exactly above where I'll be putting the charger anyway so a very short run.

    I'm guessing I'd need:
    Charger unit itself (I want a 32A) - Where did ye buy yours?
    Power cable to board? (What type would I need for the 32A?)
    RCBO? or MCB?
    Anything else the electrician would need?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    lafors wrote: »
    For those who've bought the chargers themselves where did you buy and what other equipment did you need?
    I'd hope to get it all done within the €600, not €999 like some companies are quoting!

    FYI my main fuseboard is right in the front corner of my house exactly above where I'll be putting the charger anyway so a very short run.

    I'm guessing I'd need:
    Charger unit itself (I want a 32A) - Where did ye buy yours?
    Power cable to board? (What type would I need for the 32A?)
    RCBO? or MCB?
    Anything else the electrician would need?

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100542211&postcount=3

    Cable (6mm² is what you need for a short run on a 32A charge point)
    https://www.eurosales.ie/products/twin-earth-6193y-cable-te6193y.html


    For your short run you should easily get within the €600 grant so effectively free to you UNLESS you have an electric shower which would mean you'd need a priority switch.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,907 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Also a 40A RCBO, also cheapest from eurosales as in KCross link. Install shouldn't really be much more than about €100, so every chance you can do it all for free. If anything, having an EV is about saving money first :cool:

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,298 ✭✭✭ lafors


    I'm going with the myenergi Zappi charger. 32A tethered type 2 cable.
    It'll be installed next week, I'll let you all know how it goes once it's all done :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭ PaddyFagan


    Soarer wrote: »
    Fair play Paddy.

    Not to put the frighteners up you, but I found carcharger to be an absolute disaster to deal with, and I wouldn't trust them to mind a skirting board ladder.

    Hopefully you'll have a better experience.
    Fingers crossed so. They do seem to rely on an network of local sub contractors who do the work, here’s hoping our man is good


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,907 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    lafors wrote: »
    I'm going with the myenergi Zappi charger.

    That's a good idea if you'll plan to get some solar PV in future. What's your estimate of total costs based on these decisions?

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,469 ✭✭✭ Soarer


    PaddyFagan wrote: »
    Fingers crossed so. They do seem to rely on an network of local sub contractors who do the work, here’s hoping our man is good

    If it's any comfort, the sparks at the time was top notch. It was the boss that was a disaster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭ Oral Surgeon


    Do you have to prove that you own an electric car to qualify for the grant??
    Is there any rules against me putting a charging point in my house now (while the grant exists)...
    Maybe I’ll get a Tesla in future....!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Do you have to prove that you own an electric car to qualify for the grant?

    Yes


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ cros13


    There's a cheap ESB unit up on adverts I see:

    https://www.adverts.ie/other/esb-ecar-home-charge-point/14785187

    ABL, so zero-cost upgradeable to 32A


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,907 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Well zero-cost if you already own the I/O interface needed. If not that piece of hardware would set you back at least a fiver :p You also need to own a computer and you need to be able to use Google to get it to work :D

    I can vouch for the ABL unit. Have had mine (free 16A install and I upgraded it myself to 32A) for almost a year and never given me any trouble. It's German made too.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭ jprboy


    unkel wrote: »
    Well zero-cost if you already own the I/O interface needed. If not that piece of hardware would set you back at least a fiver :p You also need to own a computer and you need to be able to use Google to get it to work :D

    I can vouch for the ABL unit. Have had mine (free 16A install and I upgraded it myself to 32A) for almost a year and never given me any trouble. It's German made too.


    Yep, I have the ABL for nearly 3 years and used it practically every day (except when away on holidays) and it has been faultless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭ PaddyFagan


    Soarer wrote: »
    If it's any comfort, the sparks at the time was top notch. It was the boss that was a disaster.

    So just to report back, a few days later than hoped, but installed on Friday all seems A1. Particularly happy with the tidiness of the job, as they had to run the wiring through two internal rooms with cuts into the ceilings etc. But they did a very neat job, and went to some lengths to sweep up etc.

    In case anyone else around north kildare is thinking of they they deferred to a local crowd powerwise.

    While I’m sure I could have done it cheaper, I’m happy with the job, and they also supplied at 12.5m type II cable, with was an unexpected bonus.

    Paddy


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 astaines


    I live by the sea, and we're getting an e-car in the next week or two. SEAI approval has arrived. We will need a 32A unit, and a priority switch.
    Looking at two suppliers, similar costs, Smartcharge.ie and Nigel Daly. Both seem reputable. Any experiences with either?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭ goz83


    I think nigel daly was the guy who did most of the esb installs. Heard the name recommended a fair bit


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,907 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    If it is similar costs, I'd go with Nigel Daly. They have huge experience and a sound reputation. They did mine too (free ESB install) and it was a good job.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭ BoatMad


    I have the ABL opened up to 32a for two years now, faultless , The controller module which is the only thing that can fail is available on the Net

    the controller is a Sursum EVCC https://www.elektronetshop.de/product/abl-sursum-ladeueberwachung-evcc.1049869.html, its used to be more widely available but now seems more harder to source


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 astaines


    Hi,
    Got it done by Nigel Daly - tidy job, bang on time, reasonable quote.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    astaines wrote: »
    Hi,
    Got it done by Nigel Daly - tidy job, bang on time, reasonable quote.

    How much?
    Was it a short run from the distribution board to the charge point?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,011 ✭✭✭ fricatus


    Hi,

    I'm going to be getting an Ioniq very shortly, and I've got the SEAI approval for the charge point install now. It will be installed outdoors on the outside garage wall. I've a few questions that some of you might be able to help out with:

    1. Any charge point brand that's particularly good, or any that should be avoided?

    2. Tethered or untethered? (I assume this means whether it has its own cable or just a socket that I plug the car's cable into)

    3. I'm getting the night saver meter. Does this have to go in before the charge point is installed or does it matter?

    4. We will probably get another EV within about five years. Are there charge points available that have two sockets, or how does that work?

    5. There's a lot on this thread about 16A versus 32A, and I haven't the foggiest about electricity. :o Can someone give me a quick explanation about why that might be important?

    Thanks!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    fricatus wrote: »
    Hi,

    I'm going to be getting an Ioniq very shortly, and I've got the SEAI approval for the charge point install now. It will be installed outdoors on the outside garage wall. I've a few questions that some of you might be able to help out with:

    1. Any charge point brand that's particularly good, or any that should be avoided?

    2. Tethered or untethered? (I assume this means whether it has its own cable or just a socket that I plug the car's cable into)

    3. I'm getting the night saver meter. Does this have to go in before the charge point is installed or does it matter?

    4. We will probably get another EV within about five years. Are there charge points available that have two sockets, or how does that work?

    5. There's a lot on this thread about 16A versus 32A, and I haven't the foggiest about electricity. :o Can someone give me a quick explanation about why that might be important?

    Thanks!

    To answer from my point of view

    1. Chargemaster I have and does a job. It is a plug socket, nothing fancy. The best is Zappi from what I read, Electricautos are a reseller of them...

    really you only need Zappi if you want to do Solar PV. Also it might remoe the need for priority switch. Will the charge

    2. Do you plan on using public charge points that you need to bring your charge cable with you? I have untethered and just have cable at home connected all the time as I dont use the public chargers. Most manufacturer(apart from Nissan) are gone with the same connection as Hyundai so no issue with tethered.

    3. It doesn't matter but it takes a while to get installed so put in request now

    4. None at the moment from what I know, I am about to ask similar question

    5. Go 32A, I did and my car can only do 16A. It will protect you in future. 32A means it will charge quicker. Someone who knows more will confirm exact details.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    fricatus wrote: »
    Hi,

    I'm going to be getting an Ioniq very shortly, and I've got the SEAI approval for the charge point install now. It will be installed outdoors on the outside garage wall. I've a few questions that some of you might be able to help out with:

    1. Any charge point brand that's particularly good, or any that should be avoided?

    2. Tethered or untethered? (I assume this means whether it has its own cable or just a socket that I plug the car's cable into)

    3. I'm getting the night saver meter. Does this have to go in before the charge point is installed or does it matter?

    4. We will probably get another EV within about five years. Are there charge points available that have two sockets, or how does that work?

    5. There's a lot on this thread about 16A versus 32A, and I haven't the foggiest about electricity. :o Can someone give me a quick explanation about why that might be important?

    Thanks!

    1) Since you've asked question 4) you need two Tesla Wall Connectors or two Zappi's. They are the only two that I know of that allow you to load share between two charge points. They only have one socket each but they share the load to ensure you dont blow the fuse.... which is the main issue with having two EV's.

    There are more expensive charge points that you can get with two sockets but they are generally 3-phase commercial type charge points. I haven't seen dual socket domestic ones...not to say they dont exist though.

    2. Personal preference. If you know what car you are buying already and it has a Type 2 plug then get a tethered Type 2 charge point. All new cars will be Type 2 going forward. The only reason to get a Type 1 is if you buy an old Leaf (2018 Leaf is Type 2) in which case untethered might be better, as it will allow you to use the same charge point in the future if/when you sold the Leaf for a Type 2 compatible car.

    3. Doesnt matter. The charge point is not connected directly to the meter.

    4. As above in 1)

    5. Charge speed. 32A is twice as fast as 16A but only if the car supports it. Not every EV supports 32A but you can still use a 32A charge point on a 16A car so get a 32A charge point to future proof it for yourself.

    The only gotcha is that an electrician might have issues with a 32A charge point being installed if you have an electric shower. In which case you might need a priority switch to ensure both cannot run at the same time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 465 ✭✭ Ewan Hoosarmi


    KCross wrote: »
    How much?
    Was it a short run from the distribution board to the charge point?
    Yes, that would be very useful information. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Yes, that would be very useful information. :)

    I asked because my quote from Nigel was €1100 or so, I think, which was 2yrs ago. Crazy money!

    Its all well and good saying he turned up on time and did a good job! The price matters :)

    I did it for half that by sourcing it myself and getting a local spark to put it in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 465 ✭✭ Ewan Hoosarmi


    KCross wrote: »
    I asked because my quote from Nigel was €1100 or so, I think, which was 2yrs ago. Crazy money!

    Its all well and good saying he turned up on time and did a good job! The price matters :)

    I did it for half that by sourcing it myself and getting a local spark to put it in.
    Where did you buy it, and what model was it?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    KCross wrote: »
    I asked because my quote from Nigel was €1100 or so, I think, which was 2yrs ago. Crazy money!

    Its all well and good saying he turned up on time and did a good job! The price matters :)

    I did it for half that by sourcing it myself and getting a local spark to put it in.

    A few people have said similar to me about Nigel Daly....every person I talked to say the install cost was +€1,000......that is mad money


    To get mine installed cost me less than €300 if I remember. The charger was with the car but even if I had to buy the charger it would have been circa €600


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