Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Soarer

Thought I'd start a new thread seeing as I too lazy couldn't find another one.

The ol' fella has the Outlander PHEV, and is looking to get a home chargepoint for it. She's 16A Type 1, but I'm suggesting he goes for a 32A Untethered Type 2 Charger to futureproof himself.
He's gonna go through the €600 SEAI grant, sooooo......
Where would/could/should he buy?
Can he buy or does it have to go through the electrician?
Can he buy from the UK and claim the grant?
Can he/sparky buy secondhand, and just put in a total price of X "for supply and install" to claim the grant?
Have Irish suppliers bumped up their prices because if the grant?

Basically he's bugging the shizzle out of me about it, and I haven't a clue. It was a lot simpler without the grant! :P

Mod Note:
I'm going to apply a small part of the Electrical Forum charter to this thread.
This thread is intended as a consumer level thread to discuss the requirements, installation and operation of home charge points.
Posts containing info that a poster has done electrical work and that they are not a REC (Registered Electrical Contractor) will be allowed, but posts advocating work to be done without engaging a REC will removed or snipped. Use the report function if you believe a post is advocating works that are not allowed.

• Although it is illegal for anyone other than a REC to carry out restricted electrical works the act of learning how this work is carried out, learning the various regulations relating to this work and acquiring technical knowledge is permitted. Answering electrical questions should not misinterpreted as encouraging people from taking this work on themselves.
  
• What we want to avoid is answers to posts that simply advise the posters to employ the services of a REC without offering any other advice, assistance or making any explanation. This is most unhelpful, discourages discussion and can lead to promoting commercial organizations / companies (which is not permitted). Explaining an issue and making someone aware of potential risks In addition to advising that an REC is engaged is far more helpful.

Repeatedly stating that a REC is required in response to a particular conversation without any further substantial info will result in cards.

NIMAN

Not answering any of your questions but something that might be useful in your case.

You ask have Irish suppliers bumped up their prices because of the grant?

Does anyone know if you have to buy from a registered list of suppliers to avail of the grant? If not, then would it be acceptable to buy cheaper from somewhere like UK, off eBay etc, and still qualify with an invoice of purchase?

KCross

Apply for the grant now and then you have 6 months to get it completed
https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/electric-vehicle-home-charger-grant/

I'd agree with the 32A option for sure.

I'd agree with getting it untethered IF the Outlander came with a cable that you can leave plugged in, otherwise he will be sick of taking that cable in/out everyday. Alternatively, buy another cable (which is what I did). You can always sell it on after.


I'm only speculating but I don't think the electrician would have to buy the charge point. Most electricians don't know what it even is. I suspect you can buy it yourself and produce receipts along with the electricians signed cert as your submission.... but I am guessing as I obviously haven't been through it.... has anyone been through it yet?

The website does say, apply now and you will get the T&C's sent to you so I'd say you should do that asap and the fine print should answer your questions for you.

PaddyFagan

Hi Folks,

I can offer a little more - we’re midway through the process....

My wife got a Mini Countryman PHEV at the end of Jan, she applied for the grant the day she collected the car via https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/electric-vehicle-home-charger-grant/

Within a few days we had the letter back confirming the grant was approved. The grand requires the electrician is registered and a bunch of details on the form are completed by the electrician. The parts and labour costs both need to be recorded on the form, but there is no requirement that I can see that the electrician supply the wall unit.

After a bit of searching around, we got in touch with http://carcharger.ie/rolec/ev-commercial-charge/ - they did a survey last night (the install is a little complex as the fuse booked is in the middle of the house, with a lot of concrete between it and the driveway!) but they’re supplying everything.

Hoping they’ll be out to do the install next week, we’re just waiting on a confirmed day.

Paddy

Soarer

Fair play Paddy.

Not to put the frighteners up you, but I found carcharger to be an absolute disaster to deal with, and I wouldn't trust them to mind a skirting board ladder.

Hopefully you'll have a better experience.

lafors

For those who've bought the chargers themselves where did you buy and what other equipment did you need?
I'd hope to get it all done within the €600, not €999 like some companies are quoting!

FYI my main fuseboard is right in the front corner of my house exactly above where I'll be putting the charger anyway so a very short run.

I'm guessing I'd need:
Charger unit itself (I want a 32A) - Where did ye buy yours?
Power cable to board? (What type would I need for the 32A?)
RCBO? or MCB?
Anything else the electrician would need?

KCross

lafors wrote: »

For those who've bought the chargers themselves where did you buy and what other equipment did you need?
I'd hope to get it all done within the €600, not €999 like some companies are quoting!

FYI my main fuseboard is right in the front corner of my house exactly above where I'll be putting the charger anyway so a very short run.

I'm guessing I'd need:
Charger unit itself (I want a 32A) - Where did ye buy yours?
Power cable to board? (What type would I need for the 32A?)
RCBO? or MCB?
Anything else the electrician would need?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100542211&postcount=3

Cable (6mm² is what you need for a short run on a 32A charge point)
https://www.eurosales.ie/products/twin-earth-6193y-cable-te6193y.html


For your short run you should easily get within the €600 grant so effectively free to you UNLESS you have an electric shower which would mean you'd need a priority switch.

unkel

Also a 40A RCBO, also cheapest from eurosales as in KCross link. Install shouldn't really be much more than about €100, so every chance you can do it all for free. If anything, having an EV is about saving money first :cool:

lafors

I'm going with the myenergi Zappi charger. 32A tethered type 2 cable.
It'll be installed next week, I'll let you all know how it goes once it's all done

PaddyFagan

Soarer wrote: »

Fair play Paddy.

Not to put the frighteners up you, but I found carcharger to be an absolute disaster to deal with, and I wouldn't trust them to mind a skirting board ladder.

Hopefully you'll have a better experience.

Fingers crossed so. They do seem to rely on an network of local sub contractors who do the work, here’s hoping our man is good

unkel

lafors wrote: »

I'm going with the myenergi Zappi charger.

That's a good idea if you'll plan to get some solar PV in future. What's your estimate of total costs based on these decisions?

Soarer

PaddyFagan wrote: »

Fingers crossed so. They do seem to rely on an network of local sub contractors who do the work, here’s hoping our man is good

If it's any comfort, the sparks at the time was top notch. It was the boss that was a disaster.

Oral Surgeon

Do you have to prove that you own an electric car to qualify for the grant??
Is there any rules against me putting a charging point in my house now (while the grant exists)...
Maybe I’ll get a Tesla in future....!!!

KCross

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Do you have to prove that you own an electric car to qualify for the grant?

Yes

cros13

There's a cheap ESB unit up on adverts I see:

https://www.adverts.ie/other/esb-ecar-home-charge-point/14785187

ABL, so zero-cost upgradeable to 32A

unkel

Well zero-cost if you already own the I/O interface needed. If not that piece of hardware would set you back at least a fiver You also need to own a computer and you need to be able to use Google to get it to work

I can vouch for the ABL unit. Have had mine (free 16A install and I upgraded it myself to 32A) for almost a year and never given me any trouble. It's German made too.

jprboy

unkel wrote: »

Well zero-cost if you already own the I/O interface needed. If not that piece of hardware would set you back at least a fiver You also need to own a computer and you need to be able to use Google to get it to work

I can vouch for the ABL unit. Have had mine (free 16A install and I upgraded it myself to 32A) for almost a year and never given me any trouble. It's German made too.

Yep, I have the ABL for nearly 3 years and used it practically every day (except when away on holidays) and it has been faultless.

PaddyFagan

Soarer wrote: »

If it's any comfort, the sparks at the time was top notch. It was the boss that was a disaster.

So just to report back, a few days later than hoped, but installed on Friday all seems A1. Particularly happy with the tidiness of the job, as they had to run the wiring through two internal rooms with cuts into the ceilings etc. But they did a very neat job, and went to some lengths to sweep up etc.

In case anyone else around north kildare is thinking of they they deferred to a local crowd powerwise.

While I’m sure I could have done it cheaper, I’m happy with the job, and they also supplied at 12.5m type II cable, with was an unexpected bonus.

Paddy

astaines

I live by the sea, and we're getting an e-car in the next week or two. SEAI approval has arrived. We will need a 32A unit, and a priority switch.
Looking at two suppliers, similar costs, Smartcharge.ie and Nigel Daly. Both seem reputable. Any experiences with either?

goz83

I think nigel daly was the guy who did most of the esb installs. Heard the name recommended a fair bit

unkel

If it is similar costs, I'd go with Nigel Daly. They have huge experience and a sound reputation. They did mine too (free ESB install) and it was a good job.

BoatMad

I have the ABL opened up to 32a for two years now, faultless , The controller module which is the only thing that can fail is available on the Net

the controller is a Sursum EVCC https://www.elektronetshop.de/product/abl-sursum-ladeueberwachung-evcc.1049869.html, its used to be more widely available but now seems more harder to source

astaines

Hi,
Got it done by Nigel Daly - tidy job, bang on time, reasonable quote.

KCross

astaines wrote: »

Hi,
Got it done by Nigel Daly - tidy job, bang on time, reasonable quote.

How much?
Was it a short run from the distribution board to the charge point?

fricatus

Hi,

I'm going to be getting an Ioniq very shortly, and I've got the SEAI approval for the charge point install now. It will be installed outdoors on the outside garage wall. I've a few questions that some of you might be able to help out with:

1. Any charge point brand that's particularly good, or any that should be avoided?

2. Tethered or untethered? (I assume this means whether it has its own cable or just a socket that I plug the car's cable into)

3. I'm getting the night saver meter. Does this have to go in before the charge point is installed or does it matter?

4. We will probably get another EV within about five years. Are there charge points available that have two sockets, or how does that work?

5. There's a lot on this thread about 16A versus 32A, and I haven't the foggiest about electricity. Can someone give me a quick explanation about why that might be important?

Thanks!

Shefwedfan

fricatus wrote: »

Hi,

I'm going to be getting an Ioniq very shortly, and I've got the SEAI approval for the charge point install now. It will be installed outdoors on the outside garage wall. I've a few questions that some of you might be able to help out with:

1. Any charge point brand that's particularly good, or any that should be avoided?

2. Tethered or untethered? (I assume this means whether it has its own cable or just a socket that I plug the car's cable into)

3. I'm getting the night saver meter. Does this have to go in before the charge point is installed or does it matter?

4. We will probably get another EV within about five years. Are there charge points available that have two sockets, or how does that work?

5. There's a lot on this thread about 16A versus 32A, and I haven't the foggiest about electricity. Can someone give me a quick explanation about why that might be important?

Thanks!

To answer from my point of view

1. Chargemaster I have and does a job. It is a plug socket, nothing fancy. The best is Zappi from what I read, Electricautos are a reseller of them...

really you only need Zappi if you want to do Solar PV. Also it might remoe the need for priority switch. Will the charge

2. Do you plan on using public charge points that you need to bring your charge cable with you? I have untethered and just have cable at home connected all the time as I dont use the public chargers. Most manufacturer(apart from Nissan) are gone with the same connection as Hyundai so no issue with tethered.

3. It doesn't matter but it takes a while to get installed so put in request now

4. None at the moment from what I know, I am about to ask similar question

5. Go 32A, I did and my car can only do 16A. It will protect you in future. 32A means it will charge quicker. Someone who knows more will confirm exact details.

KCross

fricatus wrote: »

Hi,

I'm going to be getting an Ioniq very shortly, and I've got the SEAI approval for the charge point install now. It will be installed outdoors on the outside garage wall. I've a few questions that some of you might be able to help out with:

1. Any charge point brand that's particularly good, or any that should be avoided?

2. Tethered or untethered? (I assume this means whether it has its own cable or just a socket that I plug the car's cable into)

3. I'm getting the night saver meter. Does this have to go in before the charge point is installed or does it matter?

4. We will probably get another EV within about five years. Are there charge points available that have two sockets, or how does that work?

5. There's a lot on this thread about 16A versus 32A, and I haven't the foggiest about electricity. Can someone give me a quick explanation about why that might be important?

Thanks!

1) Since you've asked question 4) you need two Tesla Wall Connectors or two Zappi's. They are the only two that I know of that allow you to load share between two charge points. They only have one socket each but they share the load to ensure you dont blow the fuse.... which is the main issue with having two EV's.

There are more expensive charge points that you can get with two sockets but they are generally 3-phase commercial type charge points. I haven't seen dual socket domestic ones...not to say they dont exist though.

2. Personal preference. If you know what car you are buying already and it has a Type 2 plug then get a tethered Type 2 charge point. All new cars will be Type 2 going forward. The only reason to get a Type 1 is if you buy an old Leaf (2018 Leaf is Type 2) in which case untethered might be better, as it will allow you to use the same charge point in the future if/when you sold the Leaf for a Type 2 compatible car.

3. Doesnt matter. The charge point is not connected directly to the meter.

4. As above in 1)

5. Charge speed. 32A is twice as fast as 16A but only if the car supports it. Not every EV supports 32A but you can still use a 32A charge point on a 16A car so get a 32A charge point to future proof it for yourself.

The only gotcha is that an electrician might have issues with a 32A charge point being installed if you have an electric shower. In which case you might need a priority switch to ensure both cannot run at the same time.

Ewan Hoosarmi

KCross wrote: »

How much?
Was it a short run from the distribution board to the charge point?

Yes, that would be very useful information.

KCross

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

Yes, that would be very useful information.

I asked because my quote from Nigel was €1100 or so, I think, which was 2yrs ago. Crazy money!

Its all well and good saying he turned up on time and did a good job! The price matters

I did it for half that by sourcing it myself and getting a local spark to put it in.

Ewan Hoosarmi

KCross wrote: »

I asked because my quote from Nigel was €1100 or so, I think, which was 2yrs ago. Crazy money!

Its all well and good saying he turned up on time and did a good job! The price matters

I did it for half that by sourcing it myself and getting a local spark to put it in.

Where did you buy it, and what model was it?

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

I asked because my quote from Nigel was €1100 or so, I think, which was 2yrs ago. Crazy money!

Its all well and good saying he turned up on time and did a good job! The price matters

I did it for half that by sourcing it myself and getting a local spark to put it in.

A few people have said similar to me about Nigel Daly....every person I talked to say the install cost was +€1,000......that is mad money


To get mine installed cost me less than €300 if I remember. The charger was with the car but even if I had to buy the charger it would have been circa €600

KCross

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

Where did you buy it, and what model was it?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=100542211

Cable
https://www.eurosales.ie/products/twin-earth-6193y-cable-te6193y.html

RCBO
https://www.eurosales.ie/products/AD990J.html


The Rolec has had a few issues for me. The control unit has "blown" and had to be replaced under warranty. Other than that it works fine and is a very popular unit.

There were also issues with some of the earlier Rolec's where they overheated so dont buy a second hand one unless you know it has the updated RCBO.

NIMAN

Just as a little reminder in case, the night rate hours changed last week when the clocks changed.

I know for a day or two I forgot that my Leaf was set to start charging at 11pm.

Nedved85

Hi all,

Sorry to be resurrecting an old thread.

I’m thinking of getting a 2nd hand leaf in the near future.

Just bought a new house and I had the electrician run a cable from the fuse board out to the front driveway. Not sure of the exact spec right now, I think it might be 6square which should do 32a?

I was considering buying a zappi charger myself and getting my electrician to install it for me.

Thinking of getting the untethered version.
Where’s the best spot to buy the zappi?

With the zappi is it possible to switch off power to it via an app?

Thanks

KCross

Nedved85 wrote: »

Hi all,

Sorry to be resurrecting an old thread.

I’m thinking of getting a 2nd hand leaf in the near future.

Just bought a new house and I had the electrician run a cable from the fuse board out to the front driveway. Not sure of the exact spec right now, I think it might be 6square which should do 32a?

I was considering buying a zappi charger myself and getting my electrician to install it for me.

Thinking of getting the untethered version.
Where’s the best spot to buy the zappi?

With the zappi is it possible to switch off power to it via an app?

Thanks

You need to get confirmation of grant eligibility BEFORE you do any work or buy any charge points.

6sqmm will do 32A as long as it’s less than 20m

Zappi untethered is not yet available.

I don’t believe it has an app

Nedved85

Ok cool.

It’s only about 10m at most to the board.

The logical option might be to buy a type 2 connector and use a type 1 converters for the gen 1 leaf?

https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/charge-cables-for-type-1-cars/type-2-to-type-2-converter.html

Anyone got a zappi installed outside?

Looks like it’ll be ok:

“IP65 rated enclosure suitable for outdoors”

Stealthirl

I got a Zappi from Phil and am expecting the company he recommended to come out and quote for the installation.
I don't need the 32 amps yet but will be asking him to set it up as one as it has the option of doing that without the need to put in a priority switch [2 electric showers already on one] via the sensor that detects current power draw.

Edit
I went for a 10m type 2 cable and a T2 > T1 adapter https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/charge-cables-for-type-1-cars/type1-converter/type-2-to-type-2-converter.html?___SID=U

KCross

Nedved85 wrote: »

Ok cool.

It’s only about 10m at most to the board.

The logical option might be to buy a type 2 connector and use a type 1 converters for the gen 1 leaf?

https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/charge-cables-for-type-1-cars/type-2-to-type-2-converter.html

Anyone got a zappi installed outside?

Looks like it’ll be ok:

“IP65 rated enclosure suitable for outdoors”

Charge points are designed for outdoor use so no issue there.

daheff

Can the zappi units be locked so that nobody else can park up & plug in?

I dont see someone doing where I am, but just curious on this.

bonoman66

daheff wrote: »

Can the zappi units be locked so that nobody else can park up & plug in?

I dont see someone doing where I am, but just curious on this.

From page 15 of the Zappi Manual...

"..Lock Function
zappi can be locked from unauthorised operation. The Lock Function requires a pin number to be entered before the unit can
be operated. The lock can be set to be active only when the EV is plugged in or only when unplugged, it can also be set to be
always active.
The settings for the Lock Function can be found in the Other Settings/Lock Function menu option...."

https://myenergi.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/zappi-manual-v1.2.pdf

n97 mini

Stealthirl wrote: »

Edit
I went for a 10m type 2 cable and a T2 > T1 adapter https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/charge-cables-for-type-1-cars/type1-converter/type-2-to-type-2-converter.html?___SID=U

It's more cost effective, and neater, to just change the cable on the charger when the time comes.

There are quite a lot of Type-1 cables on ebay at the moment that have been removed from chargers that have been switched to Type-2.

Not so much Type-2 on ebay, so you'd probably have to buy new:

https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/charge-cables-for-type-2-cars/tethered-cables/euro-series-type-2-tethered.html?___SID=U

denismc

Nedved85 wrote: »

Hi all,

Sorry to be resurrecting an old thread.

I’m thinking of getting a 2nd hand leaf in the near future.

Just bought a new house and I had the electrician run a cable from the fuse board out to the front driveway. Not sure of the exact spec right now, I think it might be 6square which should do 32a?

I was considering buying a zappi charger myself and getting my electrician to install it for me.

Thinking of getting the untethered version.
Where’s the best spot to buy the zappi?

With the zappi is it possible to switch off power to it via an app?

Thanks

You can buy the Zappi direct from the manufacturer but as someone else said any invoices for purchases need to be dated after the letter of offer, so get your letter of offer first, it should only take a few days.

https://myenergi.uk/

_dof_

denismc wrote: »

You can buy the Zappi direct from the manufacturer but as someone else said any invoices for purchases need to be dated after the letter of offer, so get your letter of offer first, it should only take a few days.

https://myenergi.uk/

You could, but it would be cheaper to get it from electricautos.ie. Shipping from myenergi.uk is expensive, so it's around 615 euro delivered from them, but only 593 delivered from electricautos, or 585 if you can collect from naas.

Stealthirl

Just had an electrician out about a the Zappi install and he's under the impression i would have to get a 2nd priority switch. Main reason i was going with a Zappi was i thought the grid sensor allowed it to charge up to 32amp depending on load without the need for a priority switch. I might as well get a cheaper type 2 EVSE if i have to get the priority.

Any Zappi owners got an opinion ?

KCross

Stealthirl wrote: »

Just had an electrician out about a the Zappi install and he's under the impression i would have to get a 2nd priority switch. Main reason i was going with a Zappi was i thought the grid sensor allowed it to charge up to 32amp depending on load without the need for a priority switch. I might as well get a cheaper type 2 EVSE if i have to get the priority.

Any Zappi owners got an opinion ?

He's wrong.
Did you show him the manual and explain that it reduces the load when it sees high currents to ensure you dont blow fuses?

Stealthirl

KCross wrote: »

He's wrong.
Did you show him the manual and explain that it reduces the load when it sees high currents to ensure you dont blow fuses?

No as iv not got it yet and never thought to download the PDF. He did say he has never done a Zappi and would have to consult with one of the other guys.
The grid sensor defiantly allows detection of available power and adjusts accordingly ?

1 thing i did like was the addition of a lock out switch beside the charger

KCross

Stealthirl wrote: »

No as iv not got it yet and never thought to download the PDF. He did say he has never done a Zappi and would have to consult with one of the other guys.
The grid sensor defiantly allows detection of available power and adjusts accordingly ?

1 thing i did like was the addition of a lock out switch beside the charger

If you hand the box or a link to the Zappi to an electrician he will simply look at its rating and see that its rated for 32A and rightly assume that you need a priority switch. So, at least you know you have a competent electrician!

But you need to show him the manual and explain how it works. Once he understands that, he should be fine without a priority switch.

Just explain that it has a sensor on the incoming mains and will adjust its draw down accordingly to ensure no fuses are blown.

Stealthirl

I explained the last part to him saying that there's a sensor the goes on the main board feed the monitors usage and then adjusts power between 6 & 32A.

Ill see what he come back with

_dof_

[QUOTE=KCross;108229081
Just explain that it has a sensor on the incoming mains and will adjust its draw down accordingly to ensure no fuses are blown.[/QUOTE]

And make sure that the sensor is installed with the correct direction, it's important that the Zappi knows the direction of current flow. There's an arrow printed on the sensor.

Gumbo

One for sale on the Facebook group for €250 if anyone is looking.

eamondunphy

kceire wrote: »

One for sale on the Facebook group for €250 if anyone is looking.

Could you send me the link to the group please?