Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Kramer

asimp11 wrote: »

Why do people think this can be done on the cheap?

What's your definition of cheap?
A common install could require just €50 odd worth of materials - an RCD/RCBO, 4m of 6 squared cable, an isolator & some clips, take as little as 90 minutes & require one hole to be drilled through one wall.

Plenty of members here have had fully qualified RECs do that, had paperwork issued & received the SEAI grant.

IMO, €835 for such a job, excluding the charge point itself, is just ridiculous & blatant gouging.

Are consumers not entitled to demand value for money these days, without being branded cheapskates? Should those offering reasonable rates be labelled as cowboys, because they only charge €150/hr?

liamog

asimp11 wrote: »

Why do people think this can be done on the cheap?

Electric Ireland are installing an EO Mini 2 for €1100, when the charge point is listed as £600 (€700)

If one company can supply and install for €400 and another claims a standard install is €800 (both prices after the charge point equipment) then one of the two is taking advantage. By all means charge the money you can but don't try and justify the prices with crazy markups, or claims that its a 4 hour job for a 'standard' install.

If a company is padding their quotes to justify those times when other remedial work is required they should be up front with those extra costs and not claim its standard.

declan123

Felexicon wrote: »

I'd read that again there mate. Think you've picked it up wrong.

Edit: Nope. I was wrong. Some money if you can get it

Bord Gais is VW's installation partner by the way, they have probably subcontracted this out.

Phil.x

Any help with this would be appreciated.
I'm looking to install charge points in my company carpark.
Is there a standard charging connection on all cars/chargers, is there a charger that could accommodate say, a BMW, Hyundai, Tesla, etc, etc, or do each of these manufacturers need a specific type of charger which would result in different chargers across the carpark.

liamog

Phil.x wrote: »

Any help with this would be appreciated.
I'm looking to install charge points in my company carpark.
Is there a standard charging connection on all cars/chargers, is there a charger that could accommodate say, a BMW, Hyundai, Tesla, etc, etc, or do each of these manufacturers need a specific type of charger which would result in different chargers across the carpark.

The best thing to do is to install chargers with Type 2 sockets, this is the same socket that is used on all public AC chargers and is compatible with all brands of current EVs

Phil.x

liamog wrote: »

The best thing to do is to install chargers with Type 2 sockets, this is the same socket that is used on all public AC chargers and is compatible with all brands of current EVs

Thank you.

asimp11

Kramer wrote: »

What's your definition of cheap?
A common install could require just €50 odd worth of materials - an RCD/RCBO, 4m of 6 squared cable, an isolator & some clips, take as little as 90 minutes & require one hole to be drilled through one wall.

Plenty of members here have had fully qualified RECs do that, had paperwork issued & received the SEAI grant.

IMO, €835 for such a job, excluding the charge point itself, is just ridiculous & blatant gouging.

Are consumers not entitled to demand value for money these days, without being branded cheapskates? Should those offering reasonable rates be labelled as cowboys, because they only charge €150/hr?

It all depends on the state of the existing installation so it is very difficult to give a fixed price quotation. Below is the invoice details of the last one I did about two weeks ago.

Material; sub board, DC RCBO, 16 metres 6.0sq cable, isolator mod, 2 x 63 amp mcb, external isolator, meter tails, 1 length of trunking, labels.
€176
Labour 4 hours €150
PIC cert for controlled works €75
Total including VAT @ 13.5% €455

podge3

asimp11 wrote: »

..... DC RCBO.....

Was that a type A or B?

Decent price for the install, BTW.

Risteard81

podge3 wrote: »

Was that a type A or B?

Decent price for the install, BTW.

It's not that different to what I quoted as normal for installation prices (450 Euro plus VAT) but people on this thread claim that's dear. But what he's posted up is only about 50 Euro in the difference.

liamog

Risteard81 wrote: »

It's not that different to what I quoted as normal for installation prices (450 Euro plus VAT) but people on this thread claim that's dear. But what he's posted up is only about 50 Euro in the difference.

€455 versus €835 is a pretty substantial difference, the installation cost from VW@835 is without taking into detail any of the particulars of a given house.

Risteard81

liamog wrote: »

€455 versus €835 is a pretty substantial difference, the installation cost from VW@835 is without taking into detail any of the particulars of a given house.

I didn't refer to VW - as you well know.

It's important not to be disingenuous.

Gumbo

asimp11 wrote: »

It all depends on the state of the existing installation so it is very difficult to give a fixed price quotation. Below is the invoice details of the last one I did about two weeks ago.

Material; sub board, DC RCBO, 16 metres 6.0sq cable, isolator mod, 2 x 63 amp mcb, external isolator, meter tails, 1 length of trunking, labels.
€176
Labour 4 hours €150
PIC cert for controlled works €75
Total including VAT @ 13.5% €455

Nothing wrong with that pricing. Very fair to be honest.

Risteard81

Gumbo wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that pricing. Very fair to be honest.

It's very similar to what I quoted here as standard, yet somehow you don't consider that reasonable. There's only 50 Euro difference in these.

liamog

Risteard81 wrote: »

I didn't refer to VW - as you well know.

This weeks particular line of complaints re over pricing was triggered by Kramer calling out VW and their €835 installation charge, followed by asimp11 asking why we should expect it to be cheaper.

As was shown in the shared costs, an org giving showing an installation charge of €835 is excessive, and is substantially higher than the cost's asimp11 provided.

liamog

asimp11 wrote: »

Material; sub board, DC RCBO, 16 metres 6.0sq cable, isolator mod, 2 x 63 amp mcb, external isolator, meter tails, 1 length of trunking, labels.
€176
Labour 4 hours €150
PIC cert for controlled works €75
Total including VAT @ 13.5% €455

I think a big cause of disagreement on the thread is down to what we deem a standard install. In my experience of a pretty modern house (2003) where the consumer unit is located near the front door and the charge point is being installed at the front of the property, much less work is required. For instance our install only required a new circuit between the charge point and the consumer unit, though we did have to pay more for a priority switch to be installed.

We've already cleared up the RCD A vs B requirement (based on whether or not the charge point has it's own DC fault monitoring) which seemed to have a big impact on installation costs.

I appreciate it's almost impossible to come up with a generic figure, and every site will be different.

the_amazing_raisin

I think the main issue with these "standard" installation costs is that installers budget for a certain level of complexity and will charge for anything over that, which is fair, but won't discount if it's a simpler job

If that's the case then what's the point in giving a standard package? Why not just give an indicative price based on a certain job spec and let people figure it out from there

Risteard81

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I think the main issue with these "standard" installation costs is that installers budget for a certain level of complexity and will charge for anything over that, which is fair, but won't discount if it's a simpler job

If that's the case then what's the point in giving a standard package? Why not just give an indicative price based on a certain job spec and let people figure it out from there

We win on some, and lose on others. It's the Electrical Contractor's risk. We're here to make money. I certainly don't apologise for that.

I have an extremely high level of skills and knowledge, and it is my right and my duty to myself to charge for that. I refuse to be cheap. We state on our website that we are not cheap, and that good electrical installation is not cheap and that cheap electrical installation invariably isn't good.

We vow to be reassuringly expensive.

Gumbo

Risteard81 wrote: »

We win on some, and lose on others. It's the Electrical Contractor's risk. We're here to make money. I certainly don't apologise for that.

I have an extremely high level of skills and knowledge, and it is my right and my duty to myself to charge for that. I refuse to be cheap. We state on our website that we are not cheap, and that good electrical installation is not cheap and that cheap electrical installation invariably isn't good.

We vow to be reassuringly expensive.

I can respect that...if I’m being honest.

Risteard81

Gumbo wrote: »

I can respect that...if I’m being honest.

Appreciated.

Gumbo

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I think the main issue with these "standard" installation costs is that installers budget for a certain level of complexity and will charge for anything over that, which is fair, but won't discount if it's a simpler job

If that's the case then what's the point in giving a standard package? Why not just give an indicative price based on a certain job spec and let people figure it out from there

I think a general price can be misleading to the consumer.
You absolutely need to see the site in person.

When I’m quoting for a job, I tell them a range. And the range depends on site criteria such as size, proposals etc as it has a direct impact on fixed costs.

For example, a bigger site requires more drawings. More drawings is more cost, particularly when the planning department want 6 copies of every drawing. Then the bigger the proposal, the bigger the newspaper ad, which in turn means the ad is more expensive.

I try to give a range and the max will depend on the final fixed costs on the week of lodgement. Gives them the worse case scenario, but also the little,bit of hope that it might be a bit cheaper.

Kramer

Risteard81 wrote: »

We vow to be reassuringly expensive.

That's catchy & I'll admit, quite a unique USP.

There's nothing wrong with making money. I like money :pac:.
Ultimately, there is also room for less expensive, but identically qualified & registered electricians. The market & competition will decide if one electrician can command higher fees over another.

IMO the €600 grant has emboldened many electricians to expect far more than they would, from non grant-aided electrical work. When the grant goes, as it will, quite likely in the not too distant future, well............it may be harder to demand such premiums.

I've recommended the electrician who installed my EVSE to quite a few new EV owners & speaking to him recently, he thanked me, saying he had done 4 for people who I referred.
I referred people to him because he was professional, courteous & reasonable but doubt I would have if he had been "reassuringly expensive" :pac:.

Risteard81

Kramer wrote: »

That's catchy & I'll admit, quite a unique USP.

There's nothing wrong with making money. I like money :pac:.
Ultimately, there is also room for less expensive, but identically qualified & registered electricians. The market & competition will decide if one electrician can command higher fees over another.

IMO the €600 grant has emboldened many electricians to expect far more than they would, from non grant-aided electrical work. When the grant goes, as it will, quite likely in the not too distant future, well............it may be harder to demand such premiums.

I've recommended the electrician who installed my EVSE to quite a few new EV owners & speaking to him recently, he thanked me, saying he had done 4 for people who I referred.
I referred people to him because he was professional, courteous & reasonable but doubt I would have if he had been "reassuringly expensive" :pac:.

Don't worry - we have months and months of work booked up.

Kramer

Risteard81 wrote: »

Don't worry - we have months and months of work booked up.

Don't mention it .

Dav010

Respect Risteard, market sets the rate, charging below market rate is bad business.

In your experience, what is the best charger in terms of reliability/smart etc?, what one would you put in your own house?

mark23

I have a main fuse board and what I assume is a sub-board in the attic. The sub-board has 3 (! long story) electric showers on a priority switch and the house alarm hanging off it. Can the EV charger be wired to the main board? How is this done?

KELTICKNIGHTT

I have my ESB cabinet where connection and meter is to right side of front close to front. Can ev charger now be connected to it rather than running cable into fuse box in back of property.

the_amazing_raisin

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

I have my ESB cabinet where connection and meter is to right side of front close to front. Can ev charger now be connected to it rather than running cable into fuse box in back of property.

I believe as long as there's an circuit breaker in the meter cabinet then it's fine. Newer houses should have one

Basically everything from the meter to that breaker belongs to the ESB and everything afterwards is your. So in theory you can add another breaker at this point to split the house and charger circuits.

If there isn't a breaker and you want to add one then I think your connection requires recertification which adds work and expense. Balanced against the cost and hassle of coming from the fuse board, it may or may not be worth it

KELTICKNIGHTT

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I believe as long as there's an circuit breaker in the meter cabinet then it's fine. Newer houses should have one

Basically everything from the meter to that breaker belongs to the ESB and everything afterwards is your. So in theory you can add another breaker at this point to split the house and charger circuits.

If there isn't a breaker and you want to add one then I think your connection requires recertification which adds work and expense. Balanced against the cost and hassle of coming from the fuse board, it may or may not be worth it

Our house is 2004 build .I check if breaker.cheers for info

mark23

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

I believe as long as there's an circuit breaker in the meter cabinet then it's fine. Newer houses should have one

Basically everything from the meter to that breaker belongs to the ESB and everything afterwards is your. So in theory you can add another breaker at this point to split the house and charger circuits.

If there isn't a breaker and you want to add one then I think your connection requires recertification which adds work and expense. Balanced against the cost and hassle of coming from the fuse board, it may or may not be worth it

Who can install a circuit breaker? ESB networks?

Gumbo

Risteard81 wrote: »

Appreciated.

If I wanted to bring my 2017 install closer in line with the regulations, I need an isolator switch.

Am incorrect in saying I need my sparks to install a 40a isolator switch?

Is this sufficient if I pick it up for a REC to install along the cable run and within 2m of the EVSE location?

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/british-general-cprsd440-4-pole-rotary-isolator-switch-40a/3198r?_requestid=107237