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The Sub 3 Support Thread

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Comments

  • #3502
    Explosive_Cornflake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭Explosive_Cornflake


    What are the next Irish Marathons? I missed out on sub-3 this time around, but I feel I'm close.


  • #3503
    Tommy Max
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Tommy Max


    Am I right in saying only less than 18k actually ran it after?? The live results show less than 18k? Is that correct.


  • #3504
    MonkstownHoop
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭MonkstownHoop


    Tommy Max wrote: »
    Am I right in saying only less than 18k actually ran it after?? The live results show less than 18k? Is that correct.

    Yeah, also accounting for anyone who started but didn't finish


  • #3505
    Kander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭Kander


    Explosive_Cornflake wrote: »
    What are the next Irish Marathons? I missed out on sub-3 this time around, but I feel I'm close.

    I think Clonakilty and the Gap of Dunloe are the last big ones of the year but they both have more height gain than Dublin.

    You also have the small events from the Marathon Club Ireland and the East of Ireland groups.


  • #3506
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Kander wrote: »
    I think Clonakilty and the Gap of Dunloe are the last big ones of the year but they both have more height gain than Dublin.

    You also have the small events from the Marathon Club Ireland and the East of Ireland groups.

    If I were you I’d taje a fortnight out and recover then build gradually over winter to take on a programme and race in spring


  • #3507
    Tommy Max
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Tommy Max


    What is the story with priority booking. do you pay €90 straight away or €15?

    Jaysis its a long time to be thinking ahead to another one.


  • #3508
    Glencarraig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭Glencarraig


    Tommy Max wrote: »
    What is the story with priority booking. do you pay €90 straight away or €15?

    Jaysis its a long time to be thinking ahead to another one.

    No option to pay €15, it's €93 straight up.


  • #3509
    boydkev
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭boydkev


    Now the dust has settled on Dublin and i have my entry for 2020, I am looking to begin my training for a sub 3.
    My last 2 marathons have been 3.18 in 2018 and 3.19 in 2019. I was on track for a 3.14 this year but was getting pain/Muscle strain in my Diaphragm for last 4 miles and had to slow down, Legs and everything were feeling good up to that point.
    So i am looking for some advice on how i should approach a 12 month training?
    I have some other races planned for Feb/March and might look at the marathon in cork.
    For my past 3 marathons i have used the P&D 18 Week 55 mile plan, But i have been looking at the 80/20 Plan since dublin to get my head around it.


  • #3510
    Ranleth
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Ranleth


    Cona wrote: »
    Congrats to anyone that clocked the big sub 3 on Sunday. In the spirit of the thread, would you mind giving a summary of your training over the last 12 weeks or so...what you found worked and what you might change?

    I followed this training plan and it worked for me.

    https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/marathon/a760127/rws-ultimate-marathon-schedule-sub-300/

    Prior to starting the training I'd ran a sub 1hr 25 half so I knew it was achievable if I followed the plan and avoided injury.

    The only change I made was that for one of the last long runs I did some marathon paced miles. That gave me some confidence that I was comfortable running at that pace with some miles in my legs.
    So for my 32k slow run I did 11k @ 4:40, 10k @ 4:15 and 11k @ 4:40.

    On the day I made an effort to not go off too fast. I started just behind the 3hr pacers and passed them at 24k. Definitely the 3rd pacer ran it almost perfectly, very consistent splits and got people home a fraction under 3hrs. Brilliant work.


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  • #3511
    justfortherecor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 714 ✭✭✭justfortherecor


    boydkev wrote: »
    Now the dust has settled on Dublin and i have my entry for 2020, I am looking to begin my training for a sub 3.
    My last 2 marathons have been 3.18 in 2018 and 3.19 in 2019. I was on track for a 3.14 this year but was getting pain/Muscle strain in my Diaphragm for last 4 miles and had to slow down, Legs and everything were feeling good up to that point.
    So i am looking for some advice on how i should approach a 12 month training?
    I have some other races planned for Feb/March and might look at the marathon in cork.
    For my past 3 marathons i have used the P&D 18 Week 55 mile plan, But i have been looking at the 80/20 Plan since dublin to get my head around it.

    Similar setup to yourself BoydKev. Had ran a 3.18 in my first Marathon, followed by a 3.13 at DCM last year. Copped on a bit with the training this year and managed a 2.51 at DCM.

    I followed the P&D 18 week (up to 55miles) plan for each of the last two attempts. Still found it to be excellent and would probably use it again for next year. Main difference for me this year was just consistency in training over longer period. Following the '18 DCM I took a couple of weeks off but then just started tapping away at a few sessions (3 to 4) per week over the winter to keep the fitness base, max mileage per week of c. 40-50k. For my first two attempts, I'd done very little over the winter and then just gone headlong into a plan about 18 weeks out from the event. Unsurprisingly, that led to minor injuries during that period pre race and I felt as though I'd never arrived at the start line in top condition. This better consistency over a longer period also meant I had c. 1,000km more in the legs for the 10month period ahead of DCM - as well as the obvious stamina benefits, it also put me in a much stronger psychological space that I was going to make a big improvement year-on-year and that a sub-3 was a realistic goal.

    Other change I made this year to help with the consistency in mileage was to do nearly all my midweek runs before work. Once I got into the routine of a 5.30/6.00 start, I found it mentally easier to get the session done first thing in the morning and not be subject to the usual stresses of trying to get out of work later in the day at a reasonable hour or managing the practicalities of fitting in an evening run around shopping/cooking/eating dinner etc!

    Good luck with it all and enjoy the winter sessions!


  • #3512
    boydkev
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭boydkev


    justfortherecor wrote: »

    Other change I made this year to help with the consistency in mileage was to do nearly all my midweek runs before work. Once I got into the routine of a 5.30/6.00 start, I found it mentally easier to get the session done first thing in the morning and not be subject to the usual stresses of trying to get out of work later in the day at a reasonable hour or managing the practicalities of fitting in an evening run around shopping/cooking/eating dinner etc!

    Good luck with it all and enjoy the winter sessions!

    I have planned to keep up a good bit of training with over the winter as i have signed up to do Donadea 50k in Feb, So will be doing more longer slower runs.
    I currently do all my week day runs before work at 6.00, So will continue with that. I was thinking that after Donadea to concentrate on the Half distance and target cork sub 1.25. and then concentrate on the plan for dublin after that.


  • #3513
    ooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭ooter


    I've probably posted sporadically in this thread over the past few years, sub 3 has always been a goal of mine but it has been elusive up to now, mostly down to a series of injuries that stopped me from ever getting a proper block of training done, especially over the last 2 years. really hope 2020 is the year it finally happens, i'll be keeping a closer eye on this thread over the coming year.


  • #3514
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    ooter wrote: »
    I've probably posted sporadically in this thread over the past few years, sub 3 has always been a goal of mine but it has been elusive up to now, mostly down to a series of injuries that stopped me from ever getting a proper block of training done, especially over the last 2 years. really hope 2020 is the year it finally happens, i'll be keeping a closer eye on this thread over the coming year.

    Good luck with it. Go
    Out and make it happen. Consistent training with sensible speed work and you’ll get there. I hope to be helpful


  • #3515
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Any of you guys do Trim 10 miler? Thinking of it and would like to see a strava link to check out the course


  • #3516
    PaulieYifter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 701 ✭✭✭PaulieYifter


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Any of you guys do Trim 10 miler? Thinking of it and would like to see a strava link to check out the course

    It sold out early December.

    Just in case here you go: https://www.strava.com/activities/1391322397/overview


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  • #3517
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    PaulieYifter wrote: »
    It sold out early December.

    Just in case here you go: https://www.strava.com/activities/1391322397/overview

    Why am I always wrong?!?!

    Thanks lad, nice run too


  • #3518
    healy1835
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭healy1835


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Why am I always wrong?!?!

    Thanks lad, nice run too

    There are transfers in operation afaik.


  • #3519
    jconn
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭jconn


    boydkev wrote: »
    Now the dust has settled on Dublin and i have my entry for 2020, I am looking to begin my training for a sub 3.
    My last 2 marathons have been 3.18 in 2018 and 3.19 in 2019. I was on track for a 3.14 this year but was getting pain/Muscle strain in my Diaphragm for last 4 miles and had to slow down, Legs and everything were feeling good up to that point.
    So i am looking for some advice on how i should approach a 12 month training?
    I have some other races planned for Feb/March and might look at the marathon in cork.
    For my past 3 marathons i have used the P&D 18 Week 55 mile plan, But i have been looking at the 80/20 Plan since dublin to get my head around it.

    similar situation for me with a 3.19 in Dublin 2019 after missing all of Sept with calf, a 1.27 HM earlier in the year gave me hope for a Boston Q time of 3.15 but happy enough on the day considering.

    2020 I have some thoughts on pushing for a sub 3 DCM in October, I have a HM in Kinvara in March and will be looking for 1.26ish and then to build until DCM in October.

    I have room to cut some more weight (approx 5 kgs) so hopeful of a good year of consistent injury free mileage. I'm running about 10 years with 5 marathons done, last Oct was an 11 min pb, so I'll be following this thread with interest and any running advice greatly appreciated.


  • #3520
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    jconn wrote: »
    similar situation for me with a 3.19 in Dublin 2019 after missing all of Sept with calf, a 1.27 HM earlier in the year gave me hope for a Boston Q time of 3.15 but happy enough on the day considering.

    2020 I have some thoughts on pushing for a sub 3 DCM in October, I have a HM in Kinvara in March and will be looking for 1.26ish and then to build until DCM in October.

    I have room to cut some more weight (approx 5 kgs) so hopeful of a good year of consistent injury free mileage. I'm running about 10 years with 5 marathons done, last Oct was an 11 min pb, so I'll be following this thread with interest and any running advice greatly appreciated.

    Fair play to you lads! Brilliant to see two guys come on with this ambition and attitude. Do yourselves a favour and take an evening at some stage to read this entire thread and jot down some notes.
    My advice is to avoid overthinking it. All the talking in the world can help but you still need to go and do it. Don’t count everything on your tune up races. I’ve done the sub3 with a 1:27 HM with full confidence. It’s easy to say it when you’ve done it but sub3 is just a number and nothing to get worried about. Don’t obsess and don’t worry about the first 13 splits.
    The very best of luck lads. You’re welcome to any information I have in terms of training plans that have worked for me.


  • #3521
    ooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭ooter


    doing 3 x 2 miles with 3 min recovery last night and the fastest mile was 06:43, left me wondering how the fxxk am I going to run 26 of these in a row in 9 months time, but sure we'll soldier on. :eek:


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  • #3522
    Swashbuckler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    ooter wrote:
    doing 3 x 2 miles with 3 min recovery last night and the fastest mile was 06:43, left me wondering how the fxxk am I going to run 26 of these in a row in 9 months time, but sure we'll soldier on.

    Loads of time.

    That being said if that session is still a struggle in six or seven months time it's time to rethink your target!


  • #3523
    SuspectZero
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭SuspectZero


    This is going wayyy back but it might be useful for some people just for future reference as it was highly polarising at the time regarding modifying plans to suit your ability. The debate in question starting here on this thread and had a few pages of discussion:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055617191&page=213

    I was bored the other day so I decided to email pete pfitzinger himself about his plans and the tempo runs specifically to get a definitive answer from the man himself. Heres his reply in the attachment:


  • #3524
    healy1835
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭healy1835


    SuspectZero wrote: »
    This is going wayyy back but it might be useful for some people just for future reference as it was highly polarising at the time regarding modifying plans to suit your ability. The debate in question starting here on this thread and had a few pages of discussion:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055617191&page=213

    I was bored the other day so I decided to email pete pfitzinger himself about his plans and the tempo runs specifically to get a definitive answer from the man himself. Heres his reply in the attachment:

    Cheers for bumping this thread. Ended up re-reading a lot of it! Hopefully it'll get busy again in the next while.

    SZ, how is your running going these days?


  • #3525
    SuspectZero
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭SuspectZero


    healy1835 wrote: »
    Cheers for bumping this thread. Ended up re-reading a lot of it! Hopefully it'll get busy again in the next while.

    SZ, how is your running going these days?

    The short answer is it's not haha.

    I dont really have the spark for it anymore, I've had a few goes at getting back but nothing even remotely substantial, motivation just isnt there tbh! Hope all is well with you.. you were flying last time I checked in


  • #3526
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Good to see some activity here I’d been wondering where the running folk had gone! Impressive to get a response from the man!! I’m a bit confused by The reply though. By LT are we talking 5k or 10k effort/pace in a tempo? 25 mins of that seems quite short And 45 allows for around 10k at it or slightly more. So he recommends knocking the 10/12 mile tempo back down a bit?


  • #3527
    SuspectZero
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭SuspectZero


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Good to see some activity here I’d been wondering where the running folk had gone! Impressive to get a response from the man!! I’m a bit confused by The reply though. By LT are we talking 5k or 10k effort/pace in a tempo? 25 mins of that seems quite short And 45 allows for around 10k at it or slightly more. So he recommends knocking the 10/12 mile tempo back down a bit?

    That reply was referring more to the LT workouts in his plans, the 6/7 miles at LT workouts which are run at roughly 1 hour pace. So his max cap on the workout would be 45 minutes whether or not you had actually covered the distance in the plan for that day.


  • #3528
    jconn
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭jconn


    yes great to see some activity on here, what are peoples thoughts on the potential for DCM going ahead next October 2021?

    Possibly with no international athletes, and multiples waves of 1000, possibly workable?


  • #3529
    healy1835
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭healy1835


    jconn wrote: »
    yes great to see some activity on here, what are peoples thoughts on the potential for DCM going ahead next October 2021?

    Possibly with no international athletes, and multiples waves of 1000, possibly workable?

    Hard to say isn't it? Without derailing this thread with Covid-19 whataboutery, you'd hope that if DCM wasn't possible then maybe a scaled-down National Marathon could be a runner somewhere in the country. What that may or may not look like would be pure speculation...but where there's hope.

    I'm entered in Amsterdam, although I'm beginning to think I was too hasty accepting the refund for Manchester :rolleyes:


  • #3530
    Kander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭Kander


    I have a better feeling about Manchester than DCM going ahead. Though I still would like to see Dublin getting the green light if it was safe.

    Don't know if I'll be able to go sub 3 group this year though :(


  • #3531
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    healy1835 wrote: »
    Hard to say isn't it? Without derailing this thread with Covid-19 whataboutery, you'd hope that if DCM wasn't possible then maybe a scaled-down National Marathon could be a runner somewhere in the country. What that may or may not look like would be pure speculation...but where there's hope.

    I'm entered in Amsterdam, although I'm beginning to think I was too hasty accepting the refund for Manchester :rolleyes:

    San Seb - End of November.


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  • #3532
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Well done lads! I’m down for Dublin. Gradually building my miles each week coming out of a few chronic problems so being careful. Until I’m confident of it going ahead then I’m intending on keeping the long runs closer to 10 than 20 miles!


  • #3533
    goldsalmon33
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭goldsalmon33


    Is this thread dead? Or is there a different one I'm missing?



  • #3534
    jconn
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭jconn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/112319841#Comment_112319841

    back in the saddle for DCM '23, looking for any training plans please as mentioned above by @squinn2912 and @tergat



  • #3535
    chabsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭chabsey


    Any people have a sub-3 planned for this year, DCM or otherwise? This thread generally lights up from this time of year onwards.



  • #3536
    Duanington
    Registered Users Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Duanington


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587224#Comment_120587224

    Berlin on the cards in September for me, its been a while since I ran a marathon and a little longer since I went Sub 3 so this should be an interesting run in



  • #3537
    chabsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭chabsey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587393#Comment_120587393

    What's your current weekly mileage? Any particular plan you're following / going to follow? From my reading of this thread's first few pages it seems that most people are hitting between 50-60 miles per week to achieve sub-3. I don't know if that's at the peak of training or as a base going into their plans



  • #3538
    Sandwell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 752 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    I'll be aiming for sub 2:40 in Berlin this September. I went sub-3 a few years ago on relatively low mileage, off a base of 30-40 mpw and following the P&D 55 plan. Last year I ran a 2:45 on a weekly average of 42mpw and follwed the Hansons advanced plan which tops out at 65. I plan to follow it again this year but increase the mileage a bit on the easy days. I've averaged 48mpw this year so far so have hopefully improved the base.

    There's no one size fits all formula for this, however. More mileage is always better (within reason) but how much is required to reach a certain time seems vary substantially from person to person.



  • #3539
    chabsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭chabsey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587824#Comment_120587824

    Thanks, I'm also thinking of following the Hanson's plan this year. I've never done any base building before (always just started training on week 1 of any plan). I had great plans but due to illnesses etc I've not been great with maintaining / creating a decent base in the earlier parts of the year. Until the last few weeks it was a bit all over the place, but am hoping to have roughly two months of about 50 mpw done before starting Hanson's. I have no idea what that will equate to in terms of times though, I'll have a better idea as the plan progresses and I see if I can maintain the tempo runs (which are at PMP).



  • #3540
    token56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭token56


    I'm doing my first marathon in Amsterdam in October and hoping to go sub 3. I'm taking the coaching route and currently in a base building phase averaging about 55 to 60 miles per week and bar a few little niggles it's all going well so far. It's my first time ever really getting this type of consistent mileage in so it's taking my body a while to adjust. But getting some really nice work done even in the base building. All that said sub 3 still feels like it's going to be an impossible task. I've signed up for the Clontarf half marathon in July so hopefully that will give me a good indication whether I'm on track or not.



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  • #3541
    chabsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭chabsey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120588142#Comment_120588142

    I'm also signed up for Amsterdam this year, good to know someone else on here is going for such a lofty goal at the same marathon. Are you doing exclusively slower zone 2 stuff at the moment? how long have you been doing 55-60 mpw?



  • #3542
    token56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭token56


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120588154#Comment_120588154

    This is about my 8th week into this phase of training but I had a little niggle during one of the weeks so had reduced mileage then. No I'm doing a mix of tempo and marathon pace type work in this phase too. I've a log going that has it all covered if you are interested. According to the coach the real work starts in July but I already feel like some of the sessions are pretty decent.



  • #3543
    healy1835
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭healy1835


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587393#Comment_120587393

    I think I saw you gliding around the PP yesterday while I was gurning my way through a 2 Mile TT 😭 You looked in about 2:30 shape 😁👍



  • #3544
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120588142#Comment_120588142

    Clontarf HM may not be the best 'signal' for Marathon shape as some of it is on hard sand and theres always a horrible breeze on the return, just when its getting tough. Dont put too much emphasis on this HM - your coach will have a fair idea on what shape you're in - he's normally pretty accurate!



  • #3545
    Duanington
    Registered Users Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Duanington


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590300#Comment_120590300

    Crap, I was away with the fairies, J - apologies !! Hope the TT went well.


    2.30 800m shape maybe !



  • #3546
    Duanington
    Registered Users Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Duanington


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587710#Comment_120587710

    Currently aiming for in and around 9 hours running per week, I tend to focus a bit more on time spent running as opposed to actual mileage but that usually translates to around 65 miles p\w.

    Self made plan, based on the usual principles and nothing too fancy or complicated, focusing on getting the legs spinning a little faster at the moment before transitioning over to marathon stuff over the next 4\5 weeks.

    I'll most likely peak at around the 10\11 hours per week park (about 8 weeks out from Berlin) - its high enough mileage compared to others but a lot of it is very very slow and low risk



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  • #3547
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Well lads.

    Post edited by squinn2912 on


  • #3548
    token56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭token56


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120599004#Comment_120599004

    Yeah I know it's probably not the quickest of HMs I could have chosen but it works well in the calendar. I'll be hoping for no wind on the day.



  • #3549
    Murph_D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602809#Comment_120602809

    Very very unlikely to have no wind - be prepared for a different kind of race. I think it's an awful HM personally and I'd never do it in a marathon build-up, more because of the sand (some of it will be soft sand) than the wind.

    Post edited by Murph_D on


  • #3550
    token56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭token56


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120606031#Comment_120606031

    Hmmm, maybe I might consider an alternative. I would really like something I can give an honest effort at.



  • #3551
    AuldManKing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607011#Comment_120607011

    Have a look in here: Half Marathons in Ireland - Running Calendar

    Waterford Mara has a HM option towards the end of June?

    If all else fails the Irish Runner 10m in the PP on 23rd July is a good honest effort - also the National 10m Championships!



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