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EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

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Comments

  • #32
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Why would it be doomed to failure? Without this, I can't see and possibility of foreign travel resuming for perhaps two years.

    People will want to travel.
    What do you do about kids? They can't just be let on planes if you're insisting everyone else has one. We also don't know about the transmission issue or if the vaccine has even worked with all passengers.


  • #33
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    is_that_so wrote: »
    What do you do about kids? They can't just be let on planes if you're insisting everyone else has one. We also don't know about the transmission issue or if the vaccine has even worked with all passengers.

    It’s a key point - transmission. Some studies seem to indicate the vaccines do lower the risk of transmission but do we have a timeframe for when studies will conclude this?


  • #34
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,624 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    There are quite a few issues alright.. quick tests would be a better solution imo. The cost and lost time will just have to accepted if you want to travel


  • #35
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭Russman


    Thornysheep wrote: »
    He's had one dose, she's had two doses, he hasn't had a booster yet, she has..

    I would have thought in that scenario its fairly simple, its tough sh1t on him, she can go, he can't. Is that not the very idea of what they're for ?
    Obviously he can get a test and produce that in lieu.


  • #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The phrase "vaccine passports" should be condemned to the same dung heap as "wet pubs".


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  • #37
    Timfy
    Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Timfy


    The elephant in the room here is that having a stamp showing that you are fully inoculated only proves that you are mostly protected from contracting covid-19. You can still carry and transmit the disease to anyone else who isn't protected

    No trees were harmed in the posting of this message, however a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.



  • #38
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    Timfy wrote: »
    The elephant in the room here is that having a stamp showing that you are fully inoculated only proves that you are mostly protected from contracting covid-19. You can still carry and transmit the disease to anyone else who isn't protected

    Maybe - in that case only countries that are pretty much done will be an option. It will be driven by your target destination in a way, if they are vaccinated then they will let you in.


  • #39
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,147 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Unless the government are planning to provide the PCR free of charge, I doubt it'll fly. Undue imposition on poor people.

    Can't be too poor if they plan on travelling abroad.


  • #40
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Can't be too poor if they plan on travelling abroad.
    Money is not an issue. A lot of people are saving what they can't spend!


  • #41
    Thornysheep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 26 ✭Thornysheep


    Russman wrote: »
    I would have thought in that scenario its fairly simple, its tough sh1t on him, she can go, he can't. Is that not the very idea of what they're for ?
    Obviously he can get a test and produce that in lieu.

    So if it's a couple they'll cancel their holiday. How is that going to help the tourism business?


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  • #42
    corcaigh07
    Registered Users Posts: 6,242 ✭✭✭corcaigh07


    Timfy wrote: »
    The elephant in the room here is that having a stamp showing that you are fully inoculated only proves that you are mostly protected from contracting covid-19. You can still carry and transmit the disease to anyone else who isn't protected

    Your last sentence isn't proven at all and all recent signs suggest transmission to be greatly reduced (particularly the mRNA vaccines).


  • #43
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭josip


    token56 wrote: »
    Germany and France seem to have significant problems with anti-vac attitudes at present and it possible there will be a large enough minority of people who will never get vaccinated. I just can't see them agreeing to it knowing the potential backlash from such groups.


    The antivaxers can get PCR tests for travel, etc and everyone is still happy.


  • #44
    Thornysheep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 26 ✭Thornysheep


    josip wrote: »
    The antivaxers can get PCR tests for travel, etc and everyone is still happy.

    Only if they are free I would imagine.


  • #45
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Unless the government are planning to provide the PCR free of charge, I doubt it'll fly. Undue imposition on poor people.

    If it gets through that, I imagine our BAME brothers and sisters' vaccine reluctance could cause a ****storm that no European government would want to confront.


    Why wouldn't poor people be able to get vaccinated?


  • #46
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,147 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    It's the test as opposed to the vaccine.
    If you don't pay for your test, you don't travel, it's no more complicated than that.


  • #47
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Thornysheep wrote: »
    Only if they are free I would imagine.


    Why should we subsidise antivaxers?


  • #48
    Thornysheep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 26 ✭Thornysheep


    josip wrote: »
    Why should we subsidise antivaxers?

    It's not all about anti-vax.


  • #49
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Thornysheep wrote: »
    It's not all about anti-vax.


    True, PCR tests should be free for people who cannot get a vaccine for medical reasons.


  • #50
    Morries Wigs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 199 ✭✭Morries Wigs


    Timfy wrote: »
    The elephant in the room here is that having a stamp showing that you are fully inoculated only proves that you are mostly protected from contracting covid-19. You can still carry and transmit the disease to anyone else who isn't protected

    we dont know that


  • #51
    Thornysheep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 26 ✭Thornysheep


    josip wrote: »
    True, PCR tests should be free for people who cannot get a vaccine for medical reasons.

    And children?

    And those waiting for a vaccine?

    And those waiting for a booster?

    I have a feeling that much of the support for a vaccine passport is based purely on animosity.


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  • #52
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I assume that with each new mutation of the virus which may require a new shot you get a new stamp in the passport.


  • #53
    ginoginelli
    Registered Users Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ginoginelli


    Thornysheep wrote: »
    It's not all about anti-vax.

    It looks very much to be the majority of people who are opposed to it are anti vax, anti restrictions, anti mask etc, as well as the other usual contrarians.

    Vaccine passports are a positive step in paving the way towards a return to normality in travel and toursim.


  • #54
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Thornysheep wrote: »
    And children?

    And those waiting for a vaccine?
    And those waiting for a booster?
    I have a feeling that much of the support for a vaccine passport is based purely on animosity.

    We'll be traveling in July, with children.
    If we're not vaccinated in time, we'll still travel, we'll just all have to take PCR tests.
    Even if the adults get vaccinated, the children will have to get PCR tests.
    But that's ok, I don't think that's unreasonable the year we all exit a pandemic.
    Those countries that reach herd immunity later this year/next year, especially tourist-oriented ones, will probably drop any vaccine passport requirements after this year.
    So I see vaccine passports as a short term measure that reduces the financial travel burden on those who have been vaccinated.
    By the time they are agreed/implemented/in use, I think all adults will have been offered a vaccine.


  • #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ginoginelli wrote: »
    It looks very much to be the majority of people who are opposed to it are anti vax, anti restrictions, anti mask etc, as well as the other usual contrarians.

    Vaccine passports are a positive step in paving the way towards a return to normality in travel and toursim.

    Vaccine passports are hugely discriminatory. Positively dystopian. Some people won’t be vaccinated until September, or later.


  • #56
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Vaccine passports are hugely discriminatory. Positively dystopian. Some people won’t be vaccinated until September, or later.


    Vaccines will be freely available to remaining persons in June or so. If you wish to travel then you'll have to go and go and get an appointment for one.


  • #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    josip wrote: »
    We'll be traveling in July, with children.
    If we're not vaccinated in time, we'll still travel, we'll just all have to take PCR tests.
    Even if the adults get vaccinated, the children will have to get PCR tests.
    But that's ok, I don't think that's unreasonable the year we all exit a pandemic.
    Those countries that reach herd immunity later this year/next year, especially tourist-oriented ones, will probably drop any vaccine passport requirements after this year.
    So I see vaccine passports as a short term measure that reduces the financial travel burden on those who have been vaccinated.
    By the time they are agreed/implemented/in use, I think all adults will have been offered a vaccine.

    PCR tests may not be enough to stop quarantine in other countries or on the way back. As the rules stand now people will be prohibited from travelling if a passport is introduced.


  • #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Vaccines will be freely available to remaining persons in June or so. If you wish to travel then you'll have to go and go and get an appointment for one.

    Yeh? I definitely intend to. You sure about that though? Also what’s the lottery winners on the last Friday in June. Euromillions.


  • #59
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Vaccine passports are hugely discriminatory. Positively dystopian. Some people won’t be vaccinated until September, or later.
    They are discriminatory but that doesn't bother me one bit.

    I'm well down the list for getting a vaccination, but I'm not going to ask vaccinated people to remain locked up for a minute longer than necessary.

    Neither am I going to ask businesses to remain closed who could open earlier. Let them open for vaccinated people.

    Get on with it Minister & start re-opening the country if the opportunity presents.


  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hmmm wrote: »
    They are discriminatory but that doesn't bother me one bit.

    I'm well down the list for getting a vaccination, but I'm not going to ask vaccinated people to remain locked up for a minute longer than necessary.

    Neither am I going to ask businesses to remain closed who could open earlier. Let them open for vaccinated people.

    Get on with it Minister & start re-opening the country if the opportunity presents.

    Hmm. If the vaccine program stalls for whatever reason and half the country are locked down and the other half frolicking at indoor parties I feel it might cause some social tensions.

    How are we going to open certain businesses and not others. Who is going to check who is vaccinated? Can we trust employers? Do we bring our vaccine cards to restaurants and pubs? What if the rumour spreads that insiders are getting vaccinated and eating at their fancy restaurants while the rest are kept indoors. Even if it were all squeaky clean there will be people at the back of the list. They won’t be happy.

    We should open up in summer anyway. Like last year.


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  • #61
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    hmmm wrote: »
    They are discriminatory but that doesn't bother me one bit.

    I'm well down the list for getting a vaccination, but I'm not going to ask vaccinated people to remain locked up for a minute longer than necessary.

    Neither am I going to ask businesses to remain closed who could open earlier. Let them open for vaccinated people.

    Get on with it Minister & start re-opening the country if the opportunity presents.
    It's extremely unlikely we'll see them here as a means of accessing services. That discriminatory element screams court cases and if the kids need to get a PCR test every time they want to go to McDonalds...


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