Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

Graham · 04-02-2021 03:06PM

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Indeed, which is precisely the problem.

Reducing numbers quickly is part of the solution not the problem. It will allow restrictions to be eased.

ArthurDayne wrote: »

it matters very little anymore what they do because (a) the authorities seem oblivious to the reality that loosening restrictions will invariably allow case numbers to rise again and (b) the government will then subsequently subtly blame people for this inevitable phenomenon and tighten restrictions again.

So you're agreeing numbers go down when restrictions are tightened, up when restrictions are relaxed, and that the people understand this.

I think that's the idea.

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Because we have a long-standing property crisis in this country and a Brexit crisis, both of which are now currently being compounded by a new crisis which has the potential of (dare I say it) mutating into an almighty FUBAR crisis.

Essential construction continues.

ArthurDayne wrote: »

The word “essential” has been warped by this current crisis into little more than a strict dictionary definition that seemingly can only be applied to a future period extending no more than a few weeks in advance at a time.

No kidding, apparently all construction work is now essential!

ArthurDayne wrote: »

We need to be thinking of the future, we need to be cognisant that the “way out” of the Covid crisis goes far far beyond merely the suppression of Covid itself.

The way out of a pandemic isn't to stop the pandemic?

suicide_circus · 04-02-2021 03:06PM

rob316 wrote: »

My 93 year old nan died this morning. We spent the whole year isolating our selves to keep her safe. Barely saw her and when I did it was from another room, saw my son once and never got to see our newborn. My mam says its better than dying of covid alone in a hospital gasping for breath. I'm conflicted though, did she enjoy her last year? The older years are all about enjoying your family and the generations you have created.

Sorry to hear that, i'd be conflicted too

Whiplash85 · 04-02-2021 03:08PM

rob316 wrote: »

My 93 year old nan died this morning. We spent the whole year isolating our selves to keep her safe. Barely saw her and when I did it was from another room, saw my son once and never got to see our newborn. My mam says its better than dying of covid alone in a hospital gasping for breath. I'm conflicted though, did she enjoy her last year? The older years are all about your family and the generations you have created.

Very sorry for your loss. We have a very similar situation only with a 94 year old grandmother. She hasn't met her great granddaughter yet who is now a year old. It would be a moment I think she would cherish and a photo that i'm sure my daughter in time would cherish as well. The only contact we have had is via zoom when my mam goes back to let her live in filipino carer take some holidays. She might not have too many days left. I yearn to go back there and bring my daughter but it would be deemed a non essential journey. My mam is scared out of her wits of her mother contracting the virus. She could well be dead anyway by the time she is administered a vaccine. It does make you wonder at the tradeoffs going on elsewhere and at what point does the benefit outweigh the potential risk.

Boggles · 04-02-2021 03:11PM

Vital Transformation wrote: »

The daily figures aren't, that was the point being made.

Who cares if it only gets updated every couple of days?

All that matters is what is coming into the country is going into arms.

The vaccine roll out to date has been a success. Long may it continue.

IBM are working on the system , it went live to GPs last week, the portal for booking tests will be operational soon.

SnuggyBear · 04-02-2021 03:13PM

average_runner wrote: »

Ever hear of google.

Its a search engine that will find you alot of information.

I hate the spoon fed society we have

Yet we are spoon fed cases and deaths every night

Mr. Karate · 04-02-2021 03:14PM

average_runner wrote: »

Ever hear of google.

Its a search engine that will find you alot of information.

I hate the spoon fed society we have

They have no problem continuing to read the daily case numbers. It wouldn't kill them to give a daily vaccinated number as well.

FintanMcluskey · 04-02-2021 03:17PM

normanoffside wrote: »

More great stuff from McNamara

https://twitter.com/MlMcNamaraTD/status/1357327141348769798

Proof what has been said all along here.

NPHET are not concerned with public health, only Covid

04-02-2021 03:17PM

Mr. Karate wrote: »

They have no problem continuing to read the daily case numbers. It wouldn't kill them to give a daily vaccinated number as well.

The are not the daily case numbers, they are the numbers reported the previous day. Subtle but important distinction. Compiling the data from 100's of locations all over the country is not a trivial matter. When the system is in place to do this, we will have it daily, but until it is, concentrate on giving shots not reporting numbers.

walus · 04-02-2021 03:18PM

ypres5 wrote: »

if we really want to start getting pedantic about what's essential then shops should have all aisles blocked off other than meat, fruit veg and cleaning supplies etc. tea coffee biscuits chocolate aren't'essential' so why are they being sold

I think people keep forgetting that what can be easily non-essential short term, long term and sooner rather than later becomes essential, and construction probably falls into this category. And because the government has approached this 'pandemic' with a very narrow mindset they could not and still cannot see beyond the next 30-45 days most things fall into a non-essential basket.

walus · 04-02-2021 03:24PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Lads it's like talking to a brick wall.

This is the consequences of the media which hasn't put any emphasis on the massive economic and social costs of these policies, which is what they are supposed to do.

I thought by putting up the ERSI prediction yesterday that we are looking at an unemployment rate of 28% this year would snap a few people out of the psychosis but it seems not to have any impact.

The real economic and social issues these extremely restrictive government policies are here and are being felt and will be felt very soon for most...the political fall out will be huge as well in the not too distant future.

There are a load of people who were scoffing at the Brits over Brexit, their handling of the Virus, but they won't be sending their best and brightest over here for a future, as always we will be sending ours over there, like we always have done.

They have a much stronger indigenous SME sector than we have, which will see them bounce back faster than we can. We have decimated our locally owned SME sector.

Our leaders have to lead at some point, we know, from last year, the chances that our health service will be under pressure (let alone overwhelmed) is remote between now and Oct/Nov, this should give us room to push our opening just that bit quicker, we are not going to see a surge like we did in Dec/Jan, the depths of winter, and we will not see a surge that we saw last March, as we have a much higher degree of immunity.

Being a pessimist is not in my nature, quiet the opposite in fact, but in the absence of media balance on this, the fact the Houlihan or our political leaders are not being asked hard questions, we are left with our own ability to see what is coming down the track very quickly....I sincerely hope I wrong.

Very good post. People keep looking at GDP, while it is really the GNP that is worth examining. It was the SMEs in the last recession that got this country out of trouble. I'm afraid this time round they will be nowhere to be seen, because as you said, and I keep saying this for months now, the middle class is being murdered while we are watching this. And all this stimulus 'free money' that so many people keep on raving about is doing fcuk all to stop this from happening.

Boggles · 04-02-2021 03:25PM

walus wrote: »

I think people keep forgetting that what can be easily non-essential short term, long term and sooner rather than later becomes essential, and construction probably falls into this category. And because the government has approached this 'pandemic' with a very narrow mindset they could not and still cannot see beyond the next 30-45 days.

Construction was the first to open in May, didn't close during the last set of restrictions and will be the first to open during this level.

Essential construction maintenance and repair have operated without stopping since last May.

Construction out of all the sectors has been prioritized the most.

ypres5 · 04-02-2021 03:35PM

Boggles wrote: »

Construction was the first to open in May, didn't close during the last set of restrictions and will be the first to open during this level.

Essential construction maintenance and repair have operated without stopping since last May.

Construction out of all the sectors has been prioritized the most.

but what makes 'non essential' irish construction such a global outlier that it's been shuttered?

Corby Trouser Press · 04-02-2021 03:36PM

Boggles wrote: »

Construction was the first to open in May, didn't close during the last set of restrictions and will be the first to open during this level.

Essential construction maintenance and repair have operated without stopping since last May.

Construction out of all the sectors has been prioritized the most.

This idea that construction is a "close able" industry that can be shutdown and constricted and reopened at will is almost exclusively an Irish viewpoint.

Italy and U.S. shutdown construction in the March to May 2020 period and there was I believe short term closures across Europe and the western world.

But now in 2021 the cost benefit has been done clearly around the developed world and nobody else is even considering restricting construction works.

Essential construction is a total misnomer, there is no such thing!

Don't piss down our backs and tell us it's raining... prioiritised :rolleyes:

showpony1 · 04-02-2021 03:37PM

hamburgham wrote: »

Was out in Swords earlier and passed Ryanair’s headquarters in total darkness. Was really sad. All the hard work and energy that went into building that company. The haters don’t have to work for them or fly with them. Millions of us do and are eternally grateful to them for opening up all of Europe . Michael O’ Leary has more ability in his little finger than NPHET and MM and Leo combined. I am really furious about the damage they have done to the aviation industry. Their job was to protect the elderly for which they have abdicated responsibility and not destroy businesses all over the country.

They are probably working from home.

Boggles · 04-02-2021 03:40PM

Corby Trouser Press wrote: »

Essential construction is a total misnomer, there is no such thing!

Don't piss down our backs and tell us it's raining... prioiritised :rolleyes:

My new garage = non essential

School = Essential

ypres5 · 04-02-2021 03:40PM

Boggles wrote: »

My new garage = non essential

School = Essential

but what's the point of the distinction in the first place

04-02-2021 03:46PM

ypres5 wrote: »

but what's the point of the distinction in the first place

Why are supermarkets essential but toy shops not?

BTownB · 04-02-2021 03:47PM

https://twitter.com/MlMcNamaraTD

Someone actually asking questions at last!!

showpony1 · 04-02-2021 03:49PM

Read that interview with Leo talking about having "beers outside with friends" and Staycations in the summer.

Would they ever address the lower level stuff that should be reopening asap such as gyms/barbers/being able to walk more than 5km etc. that were lumped in with the closures at Xmas - when they closed Pubs Xmas eve, but didn't see 1000s of people on Henry Street buying Pyjamas in Penneys as an issue until NYE, and wouldn't be surprised if they again see the likes of Penneys opening as same tier as one or two people sitting in a barbers.

yes i am thirsty for a hair cut.

Penfailed · 04-02-2021 03:49PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Proof what has been said all along here.

NPHET are not concerned with public health, only Covid

It's also been said all along that the 'E' in NPHET stands for 'Emergency'. Currently, that emergency is Covid.

FintanMcluskey · 04-02-2021 03:54PM

Penfailed wrote: »

It's also been said all along that the 'E' in NPHET stands for 'Emergency'. Currently, that emergency is Covid.

The E isn’t the misleading part.

It’s the PH that’s deceiving.

National Covid Emergency team.

Public health incorporates a plethora of considerations, that as Michael McNamara said are not all quantified, so they can’t be given accurate consideration

ypres5 · 04-02-2021 03:56PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why are supermarkets essential but toy shops not?

I'm asking what makes irish non essential construction different to everywhere else on the planet? can anyone answer me? also that's a pretty crap comparison tbh

Penfailed · 04-02-2021 03:58PM

ypres5 wrote: »

I'm asking what makes irish non essential construction different to everywhere else on the planet? can anyone answer me?

Try asking someone in government. No one here knows.

Graham · 04-02-2021 03:59PM

ypres5 wrote: »

but what's the point of the distinction in the first place

So less people are milling around the country spreading a virus.

04-02-2021 03:59PM

ypres5 wrote: »

I'm asking what makes irish non essential construction different to everywhere else on the planet? can anyone answer me? also that's a pretty crap comparison tbh

What makes some countries impose night time curfews and others not?

ypres5 · 04-02-2021 04:00PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Try asking someone in government. No one here knows.

well theres plenty of people here tripping over themselves defending it but no one seems to be quite able to explain what makes irish construction so different to anywhere else

FintanMcluskey · 04-02-2021 04:00PM

ypres5 wrote: »

I'm asking what makes irish non essential construction different to everywhere else on the planet? can anyone answer me?

No they can’t answer that.

What it proves to me is that NPHET have not actually justified their roles since last March.

They have made no attempt to determine the cost effectiveness of the measures they implement.

At this stage, couldn’t anyone continue to mandate lockdown?

If cases rise mandate lockdown, if case numbers fall express grave concern?

I just fail to see what NPHET have achieved

ypres5 · 04-02-2021 04:03PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No they can’t answer that.

What it proves to me is that NPHET have not actually justified their roles since last March.

They have made no attempt to determine the cost effectiveness of the measures they implement.

At this stage, couldn’t anyone continue to mandate lockdown?

If cases rise mandate lockdown, if case numbers fall express grave concern?

I just fail to see what NPHET have achieved

well someone tried comparing building houses offices etc to opening toy shops so I guess logic has jumped out the window

ArthurDayne · 04-02-2021 04:03PM

Graham wrote: »

Reducing numbers quickly is part of the solution not the problem. It will allow restrictions to be eased.

So you're agreeing numbers go down when restrictions are tightened, up when restrictions are relaxed, and that the people understand this.

I think that's the idea.

Essential construction continues.

No kidding, apparently all construction work is now essential!

The way out of a pandemic isn't to stop the pandemic?

No harm to you Graham, you obviously are a much greater believer in proportionality of the restrictions than I am, but I would say to you that it is actually possible to hold the view that the property crisis in Ireland is still a problem even if you think halting construction makes sense to stop Covid. You seem to be adopting this approach that if “essential” construction is going ahead then all is well — nothing to see here, move along. What is considered essential and what is considered vitally beneficial to the future of Irish society can be very different things.

The Irish Times yesterday reported a survey that work on 16,573 homes has been halted. Ongoing construction of social housing and other near-completion homes accounts for just 7% of work on homes that was ongoing when construction was halted. All in all, there could be 8,000 less homes supplied this year, while the Central Bank of Ireland has reduced its forecast on the supply of homes over the next couple of years by around 20,000.

It’s OK to admit that this is a massive problem for Ireland, even if you believe the exacerbation of that problem is justified by the circumstances. But by simply dismissing it on a basis of “oh well the essential work is ongoing” is really just sticking your head in the sand.

ypres5 · 04-02-2021 04:04PM

Graham wrote: »

So less people are milling around the country spreading a virus.

so if we're so concerned about people milling about how come shops are selling non essential goods like tea biscuits chocolate etc? surely the hardline approach should be taken across the board using your logic

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings