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Werewolf Post Game Feedback Thread
Comments
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Deleted User wrote: »Since I brought it up, I may as well say that I had 50 posts in mind when I mentioned it.
Bring minimum posts up to 10, have max posts between 50-75.
If someone hasn't any posts left to deal with something interesting near end of day, well then they've been fluffing the eff out of the place
This is only a suggestion I have to try and make games more accessible to all. It's not something I'm fully married to. Also, it would make more work for game mods having to keep track of the post counts of all players and not just the bottom few.
Would having a fresh thread each day be possible? It could help mods out with keeping on top of max post counts.
Monday has a thread. Its then closed post lynch results and a link to Tuesday thread?0 -
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Electric Nitwit wrote: »I'm being nosey, hope you don't mind
I may well be on my own here, but I thought I'd add an alternative pov to the scheduling. During lockdown I'm working from home and at a computer 9am-5pm... but I'm a lazy, distractable, b-gger and could fit some play in around that!
From 5pm-8pm-ish, and weekends, it's all about the kids for me. That's actually what stops me playing. I appreciate other people probably work harder than me, but I would be tempted in by a working hours game...
Just thought I'd mention it in case a few people said "you know what? Me too"
Games start on Sundays here but i think its pretty well known here that if its an anon game, I wont be seen till Monday. I post during work times and I post after the kids are gone to bed (usually after 7:30) so there's definitely scope for you to play the games just as I do.
And I dont play all the time, about 3 or 4 games per year at the moment which is mostly down to work and busy times. Most games here have enough killing power in the game that its over by Friday, so you could sign up and play knowing that you're probably going to be free by the weekend coming.
I'm all about the kids too. But there's definitely room to play and room not to be here when its kids time. Plus, you have a phone, you can get in the odd minute here or there too 0 -
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I kinda thought too backroom chat was more for if you had a major role, task, power etc., not basic villager with no power
if you're the kind of person who struggles to keep track of the games, having a backroom even as a vanilla can be nice to record your own thoughts without fear of reprisal
I'd forget a lot of what happened 3 pages ago, let alone what happened yesterday when it comes to games. I normally try to keep a notepad document, but the backroom is good too0 -
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Would having a fresh thread each day be possible? It could help mods out with keeping on top of max post counts.
Monday has a thread. Its then closed post lynch results and a link to Tuesday thread?
It would have its merits, but as Neowise pointed out it's more hassle than is needed.
We'd be trying to make WW more accessible and user friendly by...creating more threads
If mods were to try this post maximum limit in a game, I'd suggest taking a screenshot of the page which has everyone's post count after closing the thread each night. Just compare each new screenshot to that of the night before to keep track of the post counts for each day. So in a game with a 50 post per day max, if Beaker has 25 posts by 10pm on Day 1, and 74 posts by 10pm on Day 2, he is within the post max limit on Day 2.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »It would have its merits, but as Neowise pointed out it's more hassle than is needed.
We'd be trying to make WW more accessible and user friendly by...creating more threads
If mods were to try this post maximum limit in a game, I'd suggest taking a screenshot of the page which has everyone's post count after closing the thread each night. Just compare each new screenshot to that of the night before to keep track of the post counts for each day. So in a game with a 50 post per day max, if Beaker has 25 posts by 10pm on Day 1, and 74 posts by 10pm on Day 2, he is within the post max limit on Day 2.
In your example, i'd have beaker as 24 posts too many on day 2.
Each day has a post count not to exceed, not to include unused spare posts from previous days. Thats just my take on it, but others views may vary.
edit: never mind.. i took it up wrong, 74 is a total post count, not a daily... oops......
Please ignore me.0 -
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In your example, i'd have beaker as 24 posts too many on day 2.
Each day has a post count not to exceed, not to include unused spare posts from previous days. Thats just my take on it, but others views may vary.
No, the o count would be the total post count for the thread so, 49 posts on day two
I see he copped it 0 -
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Kids in bed by 730?Games start on Sundays here but i think its pretty well known here that if its an anon game, I wont be seen till Monday. I post during work times and I post after the kids are gone to bed (usually after 7:30) so there's definitely scope for you to play the games just as I do.
And I dont play all the time, about 3 or 4 games per year at the moment which is mostly down to work and busy times. Most games here have enough killing power in the game that its over by Friday, so you could sign up and play knowing that you're probably going to be free by the weekend coming.
I'm all about the kids too. But there's definitely room to play and room not to be here when its kids time. Plus, you have a phone, you can get in the odd minute here or there too
Teach me. My girl is 930 most nights0 -
For my 2 cents, backrooms are great. It’s cool to bounce ideas off another person - especially if they’re on your team. So I’d suggest that even vanilla people could have a backroom to post their thoughts. A mod could respond sometimes, and it’s entertaining reading after the game ends to see the thought process.
I don’t like the night lock at all. Sure, we play this when we are bored and not in work. Closing a game at 10pm means fewer random songs and bull posting. A time for the fluffy, and less fluffy people to let their hair down.
Discord is grand, but I was wondering, can anybody get access to the relevant discord server. Still don’t have access to the last game myself. It can be interesting to read other people’s musings.
Whoops - edit. I’d be completely against the idea of having a more experienced player guide a new player along the way. Goes against the spirit of the game IMHO. Sink or swim guys.
I've sent you discord index link.
If anyone else needs it please shout.0 -
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Just had a read of the recent posts.
And while i think its a great idea to source ideas to improve things to make the games better more enjoyable and pull in new people, i also feel that reduced numbers could be down to life as we live it currently.
1 theme I picked up on (in a few posts) was that werewolf is ****ing stressful, and I totally agree, but it is stress we kinda pick embrace and want but given life is more stressful for most, these days, some people just might not have the brain space for it I know i don't. So werewolf could be just taking a back seat to things.
Someone said it but other games are flying and that is possibly down to them just being simple and/or less stressful
Not much we can do to fix that re werewolf as it really is designed that way. (the stress of werewolf is part of the fun, pull. reason people play)
Next big theme was backrooms while im a fan and user of discord the backrooms on cod are just so much easier to read back on in many ways. Like i was a late convert to discord but the dead threads slowly lost post volume over the years.
There is an upside to discord though and thats the easiness of just jumping in and out of conversations and it being more instant. (which i find leads to more posting)
So a possible solution would be to keep official backrooms (if we can?) on cod and the death room on discord for banter. Maybe even have a technical or questionary room on cod for anyone who wants to disscet plays or ask questions after they die.
Again just for reference as the easiest way to learn is reading back on the whys and the where's from more experienced or better players.
The anon, non anon debate could rage on forever and there is merits to both, i do think non anon creates a better community as i said way back when but also you get pigeon holed very quickly (in a game of werewolf which can be extremely annoying this can be even more annoying) if you are a good player unlike me you also will consciously or sub consciously be taken out by bad teams more often. Which is always **** for them. (it just keeps the game better balanced re: it's rand)
A possible solution to this might be running a no win (similar to what tusk, ladyskunk and Clara ran)((except everyone knows its 100% just for fun)) a game every 2 3 4 months? im not sure! or maybe just as new players need it, but in general just a no pressure game, you cant win you cant lose over 2, 3 days.
We get loads of ****e talk (keep it boards accounts) so we get some craic and keep some community spirit and show off the basic mechanisms (and inside jokes) for the game for new players.
You could run it with experienced mods and maybe even have new players dyeing coming into do some backroom stuff and coming back into the game just once everyone knows what they are getting into
I cant think of much more, although if we could get some porpcorn werewolf on boards once in a while it could also help (if we are allowed advertise on AH its the perfect game for it) people love shooting people 0 -
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Terminator seems to be winning my poll and as such, IMO, would be a big theme to get folks interested. Sure it already lured LoughC back.
I shall give it another few days but I think Terminator will be the theme. (I can do another niche game down the road..... bye bye Serial Killer Larry David! :pac:
I shall begin working on an OP based off 14/15 players and post it as soon as to promote the game and to make things as transparent as possible for new players.
As I have said, its fairly vanilla (5 roles max). Each role will fit the theme nicely I think. However there is a new role mechanic and Id love to discuss it with a mod or another experience player who has time to ensure its not too complicated (I dont think it is but Im biased).
A role is only complicated when the poster doesnt know how to use it properly. In one of my games, someone had a role that I loved, but I despised the way it was played by the person who got it.
IMO, you should rig the rand 0 -
A role is only complicated when the poster doesnt know how to use it properly. In one of my games, someone had a role that I loved, but I despised the way it was played by the person who got it.
IMO, you should rig the rand
The role I have in mind is fairly simple for the player, its nothing special.
Its just how its executed may confuse the players within the game on a whole if not explained well.0 -
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A role is only complicated when the poster doesnt know how to use it properly. In one of my games, someone had a role that I loved, but I despised the way it was played by the person who got it.
IMO, you should rig the rand
Rikand - I like you, although I think I tried to kill you along the way at some stage - but don’t say that you despise the way a role was played. That’s something that makes players want to stay away.
Werewolf can be stressful, depending on how much you get into it, but it shouldn’t be a case of you played correctly or not. You play as you are. Enjoy it.
Edit - unless they cheated. In which case they can be thrown to the wolves!0 -
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I got burned out after playing Supernatural Werewolf. I almost lost my mind playing that game and then afterwards when we lost after so much hard work, I was deflated and I don't really feel like playing anymore. It's not anyone's fault. I decided to spend more time doing other things.
In the last werewolf game, I signed up as a favour to make up the numbers. On the day I had intended on contributing more, I was munched first thing. Unlike other times however, I wasn't the least bit disappointed to log in and find out I was dead.
I have signed up to moderate a game due to commence in 2022. I've been contemplating whether to remove my name from the queue. I haven't decided yet. If people want me to do this sooner than later as my level of dedication is uncertain I will. I've never modded before and I'm not fully aware of what is required.
Thoughts
* I'm not a fan of the Day 1 munch, it's random and unfair on a player who signs up to be killed off before the game has really begun. Rikand doesn't abide by this method and I prefer their format.
*Post limit is a good idea. It'll result in quality over quantity.
*I would like the thread locked for night and then locked halfway through the day for an hour (so roughly 3-4pm). Every time it is locked I would like a simple basic summary of what transpired e.g. "X was poisoned, X was shot dead, X was munched".
* I think too many players sign up who have no dedication to meeting posting and voting requirements and even if it means pulling out last minute, they should let the moderators know out of respect for everybody.
* I don't like non-anon games. It's less 'mysterious' and leads to bias against particular players e.g. "I think X is a wolf, because he doesn't do that when he's village".
*I prefer a forum backroom over Discord.
*Generally speaking, I don't like it when players have bullets and go around shooting others without any discrimination or debate. Annoying!
What else? I think that is it.
Someone should run Aliens Versus Predator and The Lost Boys games if I forbear. I'll sign up for those. 0 -
I got burned out after playing Supernatural Werewolf. I almost lost my mind playing that game and then afterwards when we lost after so much hard work, I was deflated and I don't really feel like playing anymore. It's not anyone's fault. I decided to spend more time doing other things.
In the last werewolf game, I signed up as a favour to make up the numbers. On the day I had intended on contributing more, I was munched first thing. Unlike other times however, I wasn't the least bit disappointed to log in and find out I was dead.
I have signed up to moderate a game due to commence in 2022. I've been contemplating whether to remove my name from the queue. I haven't decided yet. If people want me to do this sooner than later as my level of dedication is uncertain I will. I've never modded before and I'm not fully aware of what is required.
Thoughts
* I'm not a fan of the Day 1 munch, it's random and unfair on a player who signs up to be killed off before the game has really begun. Rikand doesn't abide by this method and I prefer their format.
*Post limit is a good idea. It'll result in quality over quantity.
*I would like the thread locked for night and then locked halfway through the day for an hour (so roughly 3-4pm). Every time it is locked I would like a simple basic summary of what transpired e.g. "X was poisoned, X was shot dead, X was munched".
* I think too many players sign up who have no dedication to meeting posting and voting requirements and even if it means pulling out last minute, they should let the moderators know out of respect for everybody.
* I don't like non-anon games. It's less 'mysterious' and leads to bias against particular players e.g. "I think X is a wolf, because he doesn't do that when he's village".
*I prefer a forum backroom over Discord.
*Generally speaking, I don't like it when players have bullets and go around shooting others without any discrimination or debate. Annoying!
What else? I think that is it.
Someone should run Aliens Versus Predator and The Lost Boys games if I forbear. I'll sign up for those.
Hi Reb,
The feedback is very much appreciated and yours and other players feedback is being carefully considered for the zjan game.
I hope you find the urge to return in the near future. What, if anything, you help you return?
I certainly get the losing defeated feeling. A crushing loss can make you feel so bad that you need time away.0 -
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Phew, it's been a very long time since I've posted in here.
Thanks to the Roosky for the WhatsApp invite.
I do miss werewolf and have always broadly enjoyed the community here since Jayop planted the first seeds (seems like lifetime ago now).
I've mostly bowed out over the last year or 18 months because of my own circumstances and an inability to dedicate the kind of time required to properly partake. I've been so tempted to jump back in with some recent themes that I know I'd particularly love to engage with (Die Hard, supernatural).
I've just found that the volume of posts to catch up on are just too much for me. Reading during work hours is just not doable for me and that means that I'm trying to catch up on a full day's worth of posts in a short window prior to a lynch. Effectively, it just means a cursory examination and no real scope to dive into detailed analysis. More often than not I'm trying to coast by until the number of players has reduced and posts are less.
In theory the idea of post count limits would help but i think would probably cause more problems than it would solve. Also don't think night time threads locks would help either, they don't over on MU at least. Probably I would personally have a better chance these days in participating one smaller, shorter (one night) games or weekend games.
I like complex games myself and some of the creativity that has gone into them is great and makes for interesting games. Unlike others I do love a bit of chaos and things like hidden roles or complex role mechanics/relationships run right up my street. I think were people are short on time or are new, these can be daunting and less "pick up in play". I've also wondered if a healthier mix of game types in the schedule would help but there's a balance to be struck between engaging the base/regular players versus the likelihood of attracting new blood. As in, for the amount of new blood in any given game, you need a core regular playership to keep the game viable and increasing the number of games in, for example a given month, is not likely sustainable for core players to commit to. I suppose the thing is for attracting and retaining new players, if less complex games are an important gateway, I suspect that players would need to partake in a few of those type of games before making the step up. I guess my view of a potential problem is that if you have vanilla type game followed by a more complex game, newer players are either diving earlier into a complex game or having to wait a few months for a second go at vanilla. May be problematic for retaining the hook... But newer players might have a better perspective on that theory.
I'm not a major fan of discord either (other than popcorn. And I much prefer COP but had probably never been a deal breaker by itself. Although, as mentioned earlier, trying to catch up after been offline during the day becomes even harder again when discord is thrown into the mix (at least it is for me).
I always thought one of the great pluses on here has been the good community spirit, from day one. I know there has always been tensions here and there (thinking of one player in particular, who I loved BTW), but generally has been a positive place to play, engage and for beers etc as well. I'd hate to ever think that thst would change. Disappointing to read that some people felt things got too personal, hopefully that's just isolated incidents in the heat of a game (I haven't followed any games for a long while), but I've always felt that game mods (as opposed to boards mods) have typically dealt well with issues and the community spirit had generally policed it to a point as well. My recollection was that while it happened the odd time, forum mods didn't have to intervene too much.
Sigh. I do miss this place.
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My one and only game I was a vigilante. First night I convinced myself that not taking a shot would look indecisive and then everyone would realise the vig was one of the new players, so I took a potshot for the flimsiest of reasons and really regretted it*. So yeah, I hate early vig shots tooI also hate early vig shots...
*I say I regretted it, I shot Ted so in hindsight I'm OK with it :pac:0 -
Electric Nitwit wrote: »My one and only game I was a vigilante. First night I convinced myself that not taking a shot would look indecisive and then everyone would realise the vig was one of the new players, so I took a potshot for the flimsiest of reasons and really regretted it*. So yeah, I hate early vig shots too
*I say I regretted it, I shot Ted so in hindsight I'm OK with it :pac:
And that is why I don't play anymore !!!!
Real reason is can't guarantee to commit to time.0 -
OK so ive done my best to capture the feedback and combine it where possible.
- One thing I do think though is that if you are going to have factions and not let people know the number, there should be some way of the teams working it out.
- Introduce higher minimum posting counts/harsher penalties for non-posting.
- It should be policy to lynch low and no poster's, not rely on mods to get rid of them
- Try a hydra or mentor game where we see about inviting all new players to try the game out and give them an experienced player to pair up with who would act as adviser or give them know how on reasoning the game out.
- Look at giving priority to people who haven't modded so far in the calendar year rather than repeat mods
- Give priority to people who are actively (and definition of "actively" would need to be fleshed out) playing as well
- Host some vanilla games in addition to the complicated monthly ones
- Combine the Wolfies with the FG Awards
- Ensure some games aren’t so big (post count-wise) that people cant catch up (use closed nights, posting breaks, evening only)
- Game mods to provide more game detail up front when opening sign ups (ill add to this that game mods booking a slot should be giving more info then so that other game mods can plan their game type around what is coming before/after)
- Host smaller games / one nighters / Turbo’s to accommodate those who cannot commit to long games
- Forum mods to help with sending out game PMs
- Don’t have so many hidden roles and mechanics in games
- Better define what constitutes ‘overly aggressive play’
- Use COP instead of Discord – better for reading back, better for catching up
- Develop a mechanic to keep as many people alive as possible to d2 (potentially just new players?)
- Develop low poster mechanic where wolves have to kill a low poster and villages lose a power to balance it out
- Start games on a Friday
- Bring back chat from the Discord to the OT thread
- Ensure the OP gives the players almost all of the info they need to play a game
- Look at ways to ensure more sign-ups actually participate on gameweek, and in the event they can't us game mods need to be better equipped to deal with drop-outs. One way to do that would be to be stress the importance of subs in the sign-up thread
- Develop a post-game debrief
- Appoint an external tone mod to monitor tone and send calm down PMs (this one needs review as this is essentially the job of the forum mods, and we have guidelines for what is or isn’t aggressive behaviour and/or abuse).
- Run weekend long games
- Try a different munch/lynch schedule (not 10am and 9pm)
- Host anon games with new players non-anon
- Keep doing prize comps in some games
- Have a max post count to help keep post counts for the game under control and allow people to catch up – these can be lifted 2 hours from the lynch
- Prepare a scaled down version of the OP in advance of the game
- Run no win games as a way to get new players used to how games work, without focus on ‘winning the game’
- Give every player a backroom to use to post their thoughts
- Include links to actions in the OP
- Use an automatic vote counter if possible
- Use eye catching themed to draw new players in
- Try to avoid d1 munches
- Tell new players up front about posting expectations
- Cap how many games a person can mod per year
- Have a new mod per game (as a co-mod at least)
Some of these require forum mod consideration and input, as they would be structural changes to how we do things and/or require coordination and agreement from the mods of scheduled games. Others are more feedback for game mods (and as has been pointed out, some of it contradicts others, so it will be up to game mods to decide what they want to try).
I wasnt sure exactly of what the problem was when we started the feedback - to be honest i wasnt sure if there was a problem. I plotted the numbers of players who actually played in all our games and there does seem to be a trend.
I dont think there is a fatal flaw in how we do things, but i think we can make our forum a little easier to join and make the game a little more fun to start playing by taking a few of the above into account.
Im going to bring this to my fellow forum mods and cmods and see what we can do before bringing back some proposals on the points we think we can implement as forum mods, and a list of other suggestions that as a forum we can give to game mods. It's going to be a process, but we are in a much better position with this list of feedback vs. if we took the head in the sand approach.
I welcome further feedback, so if there is more, please continue to provide it!0 -
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Great work Baggly.
I will try to stay involved and enthusiastic for Werewolf.
Another thing I forgot to mention for Werewolf game hosts: I'd be more inclined to join your games if you join mine.
That's a bit of a jest, but I think there's an element of truth to it.
I think if I'm running a game and someone takes the time to enter and help make it happen e.g. Necro, then I'd always try to return the favour and enter a Necro hosted game as much as possible. I mean, usually, it literally only takes less than fifteen minutes** so it's not too much to ask and it helps keep the forum alive.
**Obviously, Werewolf takes a bit longer. 0 -
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