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Werewolf Post Game Feedback Thread

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  • Been following this tread closely. Thought I should post my thoughts as a former regular player.

    I have only made a few sub appearances last year. I have not lost the desire to play but I have not enough time these days to commit to playing. I hope that will change in the not too distant future. Just on a few of the points discussed here recently.

    I wouldn't be a fan of a cap on the post numbers per player. As a mod I think it adds more work and stress. I agree though that the number of post could be lighter. I would just leave it to the players themselves to control how much they post (maybe not as easy as it sounds) The opening evening of games is usually for lot of joking and I wouldn't like to loose this part of the game. Maybe when the game starts proper, players should be encouraged to post less fluff and try make it easier for player to follow.

    Not being able to commit to full games, I think short/one night/weekenders should be played more. Would accommodate for payers like myself and hopefully newbies might feel easier joining these. Also, we had a slowburn game a few years ago (not sure if there was one since) maybe these could be an option also. I think the full monthly games are a centerpiece of this community and I wouldn't want to change too much about these. Personally I love complex games and heavily themed games. If we think the themes are a good way to bring in new players, maybe reboot some only previous popular themes.

    I would agree with putting a cap on how many games (monthly games) each player can mod per year, maybe try to have one new mod per game (maybe not enough players here for that idea). Maybe put a limit on how far in advance we can pick a month to mod, I'm guessing the next 2 years are probably booked?

    We did try the mentor program, not sure how successful it was. I don't think the problem is getting new players but that more players have left than before. When I started playing we were averaging maybe 25 players per game, I'm guessing that number is a lot less now and has been for some time. Of course getting new players is important but also enticing former players back. So the short games and slowburn would be my strategy.




  • beakerjoe wrote: »
    Hi Reb,

    The feedback is very much appreciated and yours and other players feedback is being carefully considered for the zjan game.

    I hope you find the urge to return in the near future. What, if anything, you help you return?.

    I really like role madness games but factoring in all that is required both on the main thread and in the backroom, I don't see myself returning to them unless some of my suggestions are implemented to make them less daunting, taxing and exhausting. I think sometimes too much is being asked of players.

    *Breaks in play
    *Summaries of what happened
    *Post limits

    Other than that, the option of the odd simplified and/or one-nighter Werewolf game should be utilised more often like others have said.




  • On the day 0/1 munch. Many of you know, that I never ever did this. I used to make up a story that involved either an extra anon account or just some random person for flavour. I always felt that this was the fairest way to go. This is my reasoning...

    To have the whole game kick off, we had to have a reason for the village to be up in arms and start lynching people. SO I like to have a bit of time where everyone posts and then there is a murder! and that sparks the action.

    I don't think it is fair for a player to die at this point and would put many off playing in the first place, you get all excited about the game, then BOOM, you are deaded!

    I like everyone to find their feet and relax for a bit and then you have a killing which is mod generated with no input from the wolf team.

    I disagree with the dead room idea on discord, what I like about dying, is reading the dead room, this is not fun/easy on discord and I would just not bother at all. I find the COP back rooms easier to manage and keep up with.




  • i agree with you flushy, a player picked day 0 munch is horrible. At least with a day1 lynch, which is also early in the game to go, you have the opportunity to try and convince people away from you and defend your position. There's no escape from a day0 munch. Plus it gives the opportunity for the village to get on the front foot early on. What if the village lost their seer on the day0 munch ?

    I think live votes help a lot with a day1 lynch too. if there's a wolf on the wagons, the potential information to be gained from the vote switching can be crucial for the village. Even when a wolf isnt on the wagons, there's huge information to be gained. Take the recent die hard game. Necro used the live voting mechanics to point out the 2 wolves and the 3 most likely suspect people based on day 1 voting. (which happened to be the 2 wolves and the remaining neutral)

    I'd love to be able to do live on thread voting. So votes appearing on the actual game thread where posts are being made rather than creating a separate lynching thread. I might see about running a vanilla game sometime soon for 9 or 13 players just to see if its something manageable




  • Rikand wrote: »
    i agree with you flushy, a player picked day 0 munch is horrible. At least with a day1 lynch, which is also early in the game to go, you have the opportunity to try and convince people away from you and defend your position. There's no escape from a day0 munch. Plus it gives the opportunity for the village to get on the front foot early on. What if the village lost their seer on the day0 munch ?

    I think live votes help a lot with a day1 lynch too. if there's a wolf on the wagons, the potential information to be gained from the vote switching can be crucial for the village. Even when a wolf isnt on the wagons, there's huge information to be gained. Take the recent die hard game. Necro used the live voting mechanics to point out the 2 wolves and the 3 most likely suspect people based on day 1 voting. (which happened to be the 2 wolves and the remaining neutral)

    I'd love to be able to do live on thread voting. So votes appearing on the actual game thread where posts are being made rather than creating a separate lynching thread. I might see about running a vanilla game sometime soon for 9 or 13 players just to see if its something manageable



    I too hate an early death Monday. Everyone should get to 9pm at a minimum. I also hate early vig shots. My very first game I was way over my head and died after 4 or 5 posts. I had made a huge error, thats on me, but I was raging that I was killed so quickly after waiting so long to play.

    Live voting on thread is ambitious. I would fear I would find it unmanageable personally. But if anyone can pull it off, Id bet the heating bill on it being you Rikand.


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  • beakerjoe wrote: »
    I also hate early vig shots...
    My one and only game I was a vigilante. First night I convinced myself that not taking a shot would look indecisive and then everyone would realise the vig was one of the new players, so I took a potshot for the flimsiest of reasons and really regretted it*. So yeah, I hate early vig shots too :D




    *I say I regretted it, I shot Ted so in hindsight I'm OK with it :pac:




  • My one and only game I was a vigilante. First night I convinced myself that not taking a shot would look indecisive and then everyone would realise the vig was one of the new players, so I took a potshot for the flimsiest of reasons and really regretted it*. So yeah, I hate early vig shots too :D




    *I say I regretted it, I shot Ted so in hindsight I'm OK with it :pac:

    And that is why I don't play anymore !!!!







































    Real reason is can't guarantee to commit to time.




  • OK so ive done my best to capture the feedback and combine it where possible.
    • One thing I do think though is that if you are going to have factions and not let people know the number, there should be some way of the teams working it out.
    • Introduce higher minimum posting counts/harsher penalties for non-posting.
    • It should be policy to lynch low and no poster's, not rely on mods to get rid of them
    • Try a hydra or mentor game where we see about inviting all new players to try the game out and give them an experienced player to pair up with who would act as adviser or give them know how on reasoning the game out.
    • Look at giving priority to people who haven't modded so far in the calendar year rather than repeat mods
    • Give priority to people who are actively (and definition of "actively" would need to be fleshed out) playing as well
    • Host some vanilla games in addition to the complicated monthly ones
    • Combine the Wolfies with the FG Awards
    • Ensure some games aren’t so big (post count-wise) that people cant catch up (use closed nights, posting breaks, evening only)
    • Game mods to provide more game detail up front when opening sign ups (ill add to this that game mods booking a slot should be giving more info then so that other game mods can plan their game type around what is coming before/after)
    • Host smaller games / one nighters / Turbo’s to accommodate those who cannot commit to long games
    • Forum mods to help with sending out game PMs
    • Don’t have so many hidden roles and mechanics in games
    • Better define what constitutes ‘overly aggressive play’
    • Use COP instead of Discord – better for reading back, better for catching up
    • Develop a mechanic to keep as many people alive as possible to d2 (potentially just new players?)
    • Develop low poster mechanic where wolves have to kill a low poster and villages lose a power to balance it out
    • Start games on a Friday
    • Bring back chat from the Discord to the OT thread
    • Ensure the OP gives the players almost all of the info they need to play a game
    • Look at ways to ensure more sign-ups actually participate on gameweek, and in the event they can't us game mods need to be better equipped to deal with drop-outs. One way to do that would be to be stress the importance of subs in the sign-up thread
    • Develop a post-game debrief
    • Appoint an external tone mod to monitor tone and send calm down PMs (this one needs review as this is essentially the job of the forum mods, and we have guidelines for what is or isn’t aggressive behaviour and/or abuse).
    • Run weekend long games
    • Try a different munch/lynch schedule (not 10am and 9pm)
    • Host anon games with new players non-anon
    • Keep doing prize comps in some games
    • Have a max post count to help keep post counts for the game under control and allow people to catch up – these can be lifted 2 hours from the lynch
    • Prepare a scaled down version of the OP in advance of the game
    • Run no win games as a way to get new players used to how games work, without focus on ‘winning the game’
    • Give every player a backroom to use to post their thoughts
    • Include links to actions in the OP
    • Use an automatic vote counter if possible
    • Use eye catching themed to draw new players in
    • Try to avoid d1 munches
    • Tell new players up front about posting expectations
    • Cap how many games a person can mod per year
    • Have a new mod per game (as a co-mod at least)

    Some of these require forum mod consideration and input, as they would be structural changes to how we do things and/or require coordination and agreement from the mods of scheduled games. Others are more feedback for game mods (and as has been pointed out, some of it contradicts others, so it will be up to game mods to decide what they want to try).

    I wasnt sure exactly of what the problem was when we started the feedback - to be honest i wasnt sure if there was a problem. I plotted the numbers of players who actually played in all our games and there does seem to be a trend.

    538692.JPG

    I dont think there is a fatal flaw in how we do things, but i think we can make our forum a little easier to join and make the game a little more fun to start playing by taking a few of the above into account.

    Im going to bring this to my fellow forum mods and cmods and see what we can do before bringing back some proposals on the points we think we can implement as forum mods, and a list of other suggestions that as a forum we can give to game mods. It's going to be a process, but we are in a much better position with this list of feedback vs. if we took the head in the sand approach.

    I welcome further feedback, so if there is more, please continue to provide it!




  • Neowise wrote: »
    Regarding anon accounts.
    In the run up to the game I tested the anon accounts and could not gain access to below accounts.

    Ewan WW
    Liam WW
    Winifred WW
    Isla WW

    Thank you Neowise - do you have the list of other anon accounts (that were accessible) along with their passwords?

    Ill put the above 4 with them (once reset) and send them on to the next game mod, as well as keep them in the forum mod room for reference, if you can PM them to me please.




  • Great work Baggly.

    I will try to stay involved and enthusiastic for Werewolf.

    Another thing I forgot to mention for Werewolf game hosts: I'd be more inclined to join your games if you join mine. ;)

    That's a bit of a jest, but I think there's an element of truth to it.

    I think if I'm running a game and someone takes the time to enter and help make it happen e.g. Necro, then I'd always try to return the favour and enter a Necro hosted game as much as possible. I mean, usually, it literally only takes less than fifteen minutes** so it's not too much to ask and it helps keep the forum alive.


    **Obviously, Werewolf takes a bit longer. ;)


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  • We can be a hard forum to find. Might be worth advertising games more to forums if there's a specific theme?




  • Reberetta wrote: »

    That's a bit of a jest, but I think there's an element of truth to it.

    I think if I'm running a game and someone takes the time to enter and help make it happen e.g. Necro, then I'd always try to return the favour and enter a Necro hosted game as much as possible. I mean, usually, it literally only takes less than fifteen minutes so it's not too much to ask and it helps keep the forum alive
    .

    Id like to think there isnt much truth to the above. For me, I try play every game I can regardless of who hosts.

    From the feedback Baggly compiled, theres lots of conflict on how to improve things. Lots of different opinions, certainly a different strokes for different folks approach is needed.

    Some love mystery, others hate it.

    Some love complex, others hate it.

    Some love the themes, some dont mind as much.

    Some welcome thread closures and posting limits, others think they would hinder games.

    Maybe staggering complex games and non complicated games, eg : Jan is non complex, Feb is complex.

    For me, I love it all. Vanilla games, themes I enjoy, mysterious secrets in games, complex games with new roles, games where I know all the info, anon games, non anon games. I think the forum works perfectly for my needs. Granted I have time.

    The main thing that pops up is time for players. Reading back when pushed for time creates lots of problems for new players learning the ropes, returning players pushed busy in RL and it can get quite daunting.

    Im hoping to try implement a way to make threads less busy and easier to follow in the Jan game. I feel the game will be non complex and up front about how to play, so hopefully it will be easy to follow. Any mechanics I use to keep post counts low will hopefully help too.




  • fixXxer wrote: »
    We can be a hard forum to find. Might be worth advertising games more to forums if there's a specific theme?

    I feel that advert in the "whats happening in boards this month" was a huge help.

    Liasing with TV, Film and Video game forum mods would be help (or any other forum a theme may appeal to). Popping an advert in an off top thread there could help us broaden our search for fresh players.

    I always pop a post in the Wrestling Forum, as do others and I feel that led to the likes of me initially joining from Necro's advert and I think Im right in saying Lord TSC, LoughC and BH joined there too and Hello 2d.




  • fixXxer wrote: »
    We can be a hard forum to find. Might be worth advertising games more to forums if there's a specific theme?

    On top of this

    A possible good resource that is already in play on boards.ie is the signature. We all have one that we can edit through our profiles. The more people that use their signatures to point in this direction, the more chance we might have of traffic coming this way. Most of us post on other forums too so if everyone had something in their signature, it could bring more people in :)




  • We have a thread in After Hours that was done to advertise the Ultimate Tournament games. We have added the odd sheep.

    There is a few active AH mods here if you grease their palms, could be utilized for WW too.




  • Rikand wrote: »
    On top of this

    A possible good resource that is already in play on boards.ie is the signature. We all have one that we can edit through our profiles. The more people that use their signatures to point in this direction, the more chance we might have of traffic coming this way. Most of us post on other forums too so if everyone had something in their signature, it could bring more people in :)

    Sexy signature you have Rikkie ;)




  • I cant see anyone's signature?




  • fixXxer wrote:
    I cant see anyone's signature?

    You can see them on full site.

    They're not on touch.




  • fixXxer wrote: »
    I cant see anyone's signature?

    I just checked, signatures are available to be viewed on the full site but appear absent on the touch site.

    Damn.




  • Still worth a shot I think. Necro has a good template in his one iirc


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  • Just to touch on what Beakerjoe said above, I think the time commitment is definitely an issue. It wasn't for me as I was in college when I first started playing but I've noticed as time has gone on I've been able to focus less and less on Werewolf games, or just haven't had the time to play at all.

    Only for I started playing back then, I probably wouldn't play at all as I just haven't had time to play the last while (despite actually knowing how the games works) the last while and certainly wouldn't have the time to learn.

    Hopefully newbies can be lured in by the speed games to learn the ropes.




  • Baggly wrote: »
    Still worth a shot I think. Necro has a good template in his one iirc

    Mine is just to follow the WW game update thread, it's handy enough. Anyone is free to copy it.

    Btw fixXxer, your sig has your flicker account ;)




  • Baggly wrote: »
    Thank you Neowise - do you have the list of other anon accounts (that were accessible) along with their passwords?

    Ill put the above 4 with them (once reset) and send them on to the next game mod, as well as keep them in the forum mod room for reference, if you can PM them to me please.


    sent.




  • Really enjoyed the quick game tonight, would love for one of those to be run each month. Great to play a little bit of werewolf without committing to 3 or 4 days of playing.




  • Riona WW wrote: »
    Really enjoyed the quick game tonight, would love for one of those to be run each month. Great to play a little bit of werewolf without committing to 3 or 4 days of playing.

    Oops, still logged into game account, that was me FYI




  • Was just about to say similar. Short and sweet (and unprecedented). Definitely worth running a few more of these. I'd be happy to run one myself.




  • Might be an idea to set up a one nighter schedule seperate from the monthly game one? Just a suggestion

    Well run this evening, smooth with the announcements and voting on both games. Nicely done.




  • Short sweet quick moving, nice modding and I got 2 for 2 yayyyyyy




  • Riona WW wrote: »
    Really enjoyed the quick game tonight, would love for one of those to be run each month. Great to play a little bit of werewolf without committing to 3 or 4 days of playing.

    I would echo this - I enjoyed this evening. However, when I played previously, work just doesn't allow time to interact across a full week so I can't commit to the longer games.


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  • This was my first game and really enjoyed it tbf, it was very easy to follow, its hard for me to find the time with work/life to commit to a week-long game so this was absolutely ideal to tip my toes in.

    Mods were great and let the game flow and were there to help out if needed for the newbie so thanks for that guys


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