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Changes in the GAA - super thread

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    #2552
    jay1988
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭jay1988


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    Errrr have a look at the backroom team Dublin had yesterday compared to Mayo.

    I don't think the question was who had the bigger backroom team?

    I'm pretty sure it was do other teams use gps tracking like Dublin do? I think the answer is yes, (some also use it to throw at opponents) unless you know know differently?


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    #2553
    munster87
    Registered Users Posts: 4,233 ✭✭✭munster87


    kilns wrote: »
    I like everyone are open to reasonable suggestions to improve the whole championship

    What I would like to see would not be reasonable for a fast fix with short term effect. It would take years and massive effort to put in place. I would be suggesting an overhaul of county teams. The aim being to create as level a playing field as possible. Would involve splits and amalgamations. Amalgamations have worked in the past at club level throughout the country when people thought they wouldn’t.
    Hurling and Football would have to be completely different teams. Obviously massive challenges to do this not least being that Irish people are so slow to change anything, especially when tradition is involved, e.g. the provincial championships.
    However you mentioned reasonable and it is highly unlikely that such a drastic overhaul will ever be feasible.
    There is an underage hurling competition that has different amalgamations of teams but can’t find it online.

    Being more realistic, in the next couple of decades I wouldn’t be against the creation of franchise teams as the sport heads towards professionalism.
    The country is very small, no need for anything near 32 teams competing.
    May not be getting my thoughts across here well but I think change will come anyway over the next while, no harm talking about it.


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    #2554
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,518 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    kilns wrote: »
    Is it just Dublin that use this? I seem to remember a certain Mayo player a few years ago removing his GPS tracker and throwing it at another player. Literally , every county uses this

    That's for analysing stats after the game. No other team would have real time feed to five people on a laptop during the game.


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    #2555
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,518 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    jay1988 wrote: »
    I don't think the question was who had the bigger backroom team?

    I'm pretty sure it was do other teams use gps tracking like Dublin do? I think the answer is yes, (some also use it to throw at opponents) unless you know know differently?

    Yes but my point was how that information is used. Bigger backroom team during the game = more real time data to aid performance.


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    #2556
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    munster87 wrote: »
    What I would like to see would not be reasonable for a fast fix with short term effect. It would take years and massive effort to put in place. I would be suggesting an overhaul of county teams. The aim being to create as level a playing field as possible. Would involve splits and amalgamations. Amalgamations have worked in the past at club level throughout the country when people thought they wouldn’t.
    Hurling and Football would have to be completely different teams. Obviously massive challenges to do this not least being that Irish people are so slow to change anything, especially when tradition is involved, e.g. the provincial championships.
    However you mentioned reasonable and it is highly unlikely that such a drastic overhaul will ever be feasible.
    There is an underage hurling competition that has different amalgamations of teams but can’t find it online.

    Being more realistic, in the next couple of decades I wouldn’t be against the creation of franchise teams as the sport heads towards professionalism.
    The country is very small, no need for anything near 32 teams competing.
    May not be getting my thoughts across here well but I think change will come anyway over the next while, no harm talking about it.

    I agree with you. I think the calls to split Dublin solely are stupid. It needs a complete overhaul. A franchise system of approx 24 teams would be a hard sell short term but it's the only way long term, it may take a generation for it to be full buy in.


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    #2557
    jay1988
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭jay1988


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    That's for analysing stats after the game. No other team would have real time feed to five people on a laptop during the game.

    Are you sure about that?, both sides use STATsport who offer a live pitchside tracking app to all of their clients, surely there not doing this for Dublin and not for Mayo?


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    #2558
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    Yes but my point was how that information is used. Bigger backroom team during the game = more real time data to aid performance.

    But are the guys with the lap tops being paid? They aren't. Other counties do this and to be honest those who don't use it are foolish as it's available to all


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    #2559
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,518 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    jay1988 wrote: »
    Are you sure about that?, both sides use STATsport who offer a live pitchside tracking app to all of their clients, surely there not doing this for Dublin and not for Mayo?

    Back to my point about the large backroom team.


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    #2560
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,518 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    kilns wrote: »
    But are the guys with the lap tops being paid? They aren't. Other counties do this and to be honest those who don't use it are foolish as it's available to all

    I have no idea if there getting paid but I would imagine they're getting expenses anyway. When you have other county teams having to cut the panel to reduce costs it provides an advantage.


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    #2561
    C__MC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭C__MC


    Croke park should come into use for Dublin in a leinster final , all Ireland semi and final
    League games back to Parnell park


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    #2562
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭doc_17


    jay1988 wrote: »
    It really wouldn't, in the end it comes down to 15v15 or 20v20, the better team will usually win, no matter where the games are played and thats what is happening now, the best team is winning, it won't last forever but we'll enjoy it while it does.

    In every field sport in the world the teams playing at home have a bigger win percentage.


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    #2563
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,839 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Thing is the point that is being missed by a lot of people....Gaelic football has evolved...its changing.. possession is king. You can’t score without the ball and your opponent can score if you give it to them... so that is why teams are interested in minding possession and playing short kick outs.. the game is evolving, for the better... its faster, it’s higher scoring, more skillful more entertaining... players are fitter, sharper, more intelligent more tactically astute.

    A team would rather possession near their own 45 then throwing it up the middle of the pitch where it can be 50/50... the tactical norms of the game are being re-evaluated... not just by Dublin. Dublin are just pretty good at moving the ball fast, efficiently, and accurately...

    You have some redline rule for kick outs you’ll just have teams playing more 6”4 guys at the expense of actual footballers... it would diminish the game.


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    #2564
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,839 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    doc_17 wrote: »
    In every field sport in the world the teams playing at home have a bigger win percentage.

    Keep Dublin out of Parnell Park so....

    The only solution is to build two big white elephant stadia in say Cork and Tipp and alternating the finals between 3 venues.... impossible financially. If it wasn’t it would be a waste of money financially.


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    #2565
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,518 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Strumms wrote: »
    Thing is the point that is being missed by a lot of people....Gaelic football has evolved...its changing.. possession is king. You can’t score without the ball and your opponent can score if you give it to them... so that is why teams are interested in minding possession and playing short kick outs.. the game is evolving, for the better... its faster, it’s higher scoring, more skillful more entertaining... players are fitter, sharper, more intelligent more tactically astute.

    A team would rather possession near their own 45 then throwing it up the middle of the pitch where it can be 50/50... the tactical norms of the game are being re-evaluated... not just by Dublin. Dublin are just pretty good at moving the ball fast, efficiently, and accurately...

    You have some redline rule for kick outs you’ll just have teams playing more 6”4 guys at the expense of actual footballers... it would diminish the game.

    How Dublin play is absolutely the right tactic but the passing left and right around the midfield is boring as hell when it gets going. Doesn't matter whether it's kicked or punched it's awful to watch. I never understood people fawning over Barcelona doing the same in soccer great teams if you love just reading the stats in the morning paper but awful dull watching for a full match

    The short pass and move when going forward is great to watch and I think is more entertaining than the old hoofing it into a sea of players round the box.


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    #2566
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭DubCount


    The "keep ball" at certain stages of the match is effective but not great to watch. That is as much about defending teams putting 15 players behind the ball, as the attacking team deciding that they have enough of a lead to win without trying to attack. e

    I'd love to see a rule requiring both teams to have at least 3-4 players inside the opposition 65 at all times. If there is more space for attacking teams you might get more attacking play.

    Also, I wonder if a shot clock could work (like in basketball). If there is no shot within 1 minute of a kickout or a turnover, its a kick out for the opposition. That type of thing.


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    #2567
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DubCount wrote: »
    The "keep ball" at certain stages of the match is effective but not great to watch. That is as much about defending teams putting 15 players behind the ball, as the attacking team deciding that they have enough of a lead to win without trying to attack. e

    I'd love to see a rule requiring both teams to have at least 3-4 players inside the opposition 65 at all times. If there is more space for attacking teams you might get more attacking play.

    Also, I wonder if a shot clock could work (like in basketball). If there is no shot within 1 minute of a kickout or a turnover, its a kick out for the opposition. That type of thing.

    You’re into gimmick territory then. Let teams play as they see fit and it’s up to other teams to counter that and stop them. There’s no thought into handing someone a ball back like that.


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    #2568
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    DubCount wrote: »
    The "keep ball" at certain stages of the match is effective but not great to watch. That is as much about defending teams putting 15 players behind the ball, as the attacking team deciding that they have enough of a lead to win without trying to attack. e

    I'd love to see a rule requiring both teams to have at least 3-4 players inside the opposition 65 at all times. If there is more space for attacking teams you might get more attacking play.

    Also, I wonder if a shot clock could work (like in basketball). If there is no shot within 1 minute of a kickout or a turnover, its a kick out for the opposition. That type of thing.
    A basketball court is less than 100 feet long and 50 feet wide. Totally incomparable to a GAA pitch. You cant put a shot clock on it. Theyre not comparable.


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    #2569
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    That's for analysing stats after the game. No other team would have real time feed to five people on a laptop during the game.


    I don't know about that. I was in Salthill for a league game two years back. Fierce cold and I got in early and into the middle of the stand. A Steward came to me after about 10 mins and asked if I could move two seats further in and they marked off two seats for stats lads for the Galway team.

    And different teams work and use different methods. The Mayo fans on here will attest that a backroom member of staff at Arsenal FC works with Mayo GAA when the soccer season finishes.


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    #2570
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    DubCount wrote: »
    The "keep ball" at certain stages of the match is effective but not great to watch. That is as much about defending teams putting 15 players behind the ball, as the attacking team deciding that they have enough of a lead to win without trying to attack. e

    I'd love to see a rule requiring both teams to have at least 3-4 players inside the opposition 65 at all times. If there is more space for attacking teams you might get more attacking play.

    Also, I wonder if a shot clock could work (like in basketball). If there is no shot within 1 minute of a kickout or a turnover, its a kick out for the opposition. That type of thing.

    Dublin went down to 14 men the other day and when the second half kicked off I posted on the AI thread that Dublin would hold the ball and run the clock down and that is what they did for just shy of 5 minutes.

    Why should a team in that position be penalised when the opposing team has the extra man and the added advantage?


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    #2571
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,556 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    One change that is needed more then ever is Dublin not competing in Leinster. As has been said before a system where they play in a different province each year would work best. It would spice up those other provincials the year they enter, think Dublin vs Kerry/Cork in Killarney or PUC, Mayo in McHale or Monaghan in Clones. Then every 4 years back to Leinster for a procession.

    But at least for the 3 years in between you'll have a competitive province and Leinster teams will have championship silverware to play for so annual progress can be seen and made to assist long term improvements.

    Dublin fans would enjoy this system more so it's a win win. Just think how many Dubs would be in favour of Scrapping leinster. They don't give a **** about it anymore. The glory days are gone. Meanwhile now they're more concerned about not getting split up so might welcome this change instead.

    That former player from Westmeath was encouraging all leinster counties to boycott. Instead of having to boycott why can't they just play minus dublin who are in no way similar in any metric to a leinster county.


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    #2572
    ShyMets
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭ShyMets


    RoyalCelt wrote: »
    One change that is needed more then ever is Dublin not competing in Leinster. As has been said before a system where they play in a different province each year would work best. It would spice up those other provincials the year they enter, think Dublin vs Kerry/Cork in Killarney or PUC, Mayo in McHale or Monaghan in Clones. Then every 4 years back to Leinster for a procession.

    But at least for the 3 years in between you'll have a competitive province and Leinster teams will have championship silverware to play for so annual progress can be seen and made to assist long term improvements.

    Dublin fans would enjoy this system more so it's a win win. Just think how many Dubs would be in favour of Scrapping leinster. They don't give a **** about it anymore. The glory days are gone. Meanwhile now they're more concerned about not getting split up so might welcome this change instead.

    That former player from Westmeath was encouraging all leinster counties to boycott. Instead of having to boycott why can't they just play minus dublin who are in no way similar in any metric to a leinster county.

    So if Dublin don't care about Leinster anymore. Why would they care about winning Ulster, Connaught or Munster.


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    #2573
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,556 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    ShyMets wrote: »
    So if Dublin don't care about Leinster anymore. Why would they care about winning Ulster, Connaught or Munster.

    They'd get more competition? Less of the hammer every team by 20 points on the way to their 50th leinster in a row? Potential match ups away include kerry, Cork, mayo, galway, donegal, Tyrone etc. The Dublin accountants might not like the idea of their travel costs going up! They'll finally understand the pain of the likes of mayo, donegal and kerry.


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    #2574
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    RoyalCelt wrote: »
    They'd get more competition? Less of the hammer every team by 20 points on the way to their 50th leinster in a row? Potential match ups away include kerry, Cork, mayo, galway, donegal, Tyrone etc. The Dublin accountants might not like the idea of their travel costs going up! They'll finally understand the pain of the likes of mayo, donegal and kerry.
    And why would any of the smaller/weaker counties in the other provinces be happy with this or even the stronger counties?
    Moving dublin around the provinces will be the death of the provincial championships and that isnt a good thing.
    Dublin play likes of Kerry, Mayo, Donegal etc enough with the super 8s, semis/finals and in the league
    It isnt the answer.


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    #2575
    ShyMets
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭ShyMets


    RoyalCelt wrote: »
    They'd get more competition? Less of the hammer every team by 20 points on the way to their 50th leinster in a row? Potential match ups away include kerry, Cork, mayo, galway, donegal, Tyrone etc. The Dublin accountants might not like the idea of their travel costs going up! They'll finally understand the pain of the likes of mayo, donegal and kerry.

    Ok. So you're in favour of it solely because Dublin will incur more travelling costs.

    The mind boggles


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    #2576
    seligehgit
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    Mod Warning

    I refer all posters to the last sentence of post #1 on The Dominance of Dublin GAA thread.

    The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058005558

    Any further posts referring to reforms relating to Dublin GAA will be sanctioned.


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    #2577
    dobman88
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭dobman88


    Can someone explain the outrage over the advantage rule in hurling? It seemed to work well from what I could see overall. Especially the new rule on cynical fouls outside the penalty area leading to penalties. I only watched league Sunday but on more than a few occasions it was obvious to see lads stop themselves from a pull on the jersey or dragging a player down cynically. Seems lots of hurling fans not happy with the new rules but they looked good to me.

    So could anyone shed any light on something I might seem to be missing?


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    #2578
    thesultan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭thesultan


    The old one had if a free was committed, the ref had a five second advantage rule where if the advantage didn't occur he could go back to the original free


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    #2579
    seligehgit
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    thesultan wrote: »
    The old one had if a free was committed, the ref had a five second advantage rule where if the advantage didn't occur he could go back to the original free

    Can't see what on earth was wrong with same.


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    #2580
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/115681595#Comment_115681595

    Similar to how Galway don't play in the Connacht hurling anymore?

    It seems to have worked well for Galway but do we really want to give the Dubs another leg-up?



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    #2581
    harpsman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭harpsman


    Football-

    1- there must be at least 4 players from each team in each half of the field, or inside each 65- this would be policed by a linesman for each half.

    2- no hand passing outside the 22m line. Maybe change the 22m line to 30m to give a bit more leeway.

    3- all kick outs must pass the 45m line.

    At the moment most football matches are like a series of backs v forwards drills with very few contests for possession. I find it sterile and boring to watch. These changes would mean more long kicking and contests for possession, and evee wee n a bit more chaos which the game is sorely lacking atm



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