Changes in the GAA - super thread

gormdubhgorm · 10-12-2020 04:40PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

I'm not sure there's any solution to Division 4 teams being uncompetive and that's more of a red herring. The goal is to make Division 1 teams at least competitive again, which this would do.

dunnerc wrote: »

Whos goal is that ?
Division 1 teams are already competitive

Kerry League champion 2020
Mayo League champions 2019
Kerry drew with Dublin in 2019 All Ireland , should have won
Mayo drew with Dublin twice , losing by 1 point in 2 All Ireland finals
Kerry lost to Dublin by 2 points in 2016 semi final
Kerry lost to Dublin by 3 points in 2015 final

I think people might find this article interesting Niall Moyna's comments on how the League is a much better competition than the championship. As teams of the same same level play each other.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/out-dated-outmoded-and-turning-people-off-niall-moyna-on-championship-1.4154409

Plus I will nearly put my house on it that Mayo will be back in div1 by 2022 - relegated this year for the first time in 23 years with 5 points.

Meanwhile Meath will struggle in div2 and have a dogfight to get out again. Because that is around their level at the moment. Similar problem with Kildare a consistent div 2 team who struggle at Super 8's and div 1 level. It is likely Armagh will be the whipping boys of div 1 and go straight back down.

In div there are a consistent top 7 who are there or thereabouts for extended periods. The no 8 team in Ireland always struggles to compete at that level.

Rolo2010 · 10-12-2020 04:43PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

OK but if you take that train of logic - it will mean the other Dublin entities will merely act as feeder counties to the main county.

Real change is not achieved by just focusing on Dublin, but the old outdated championship structure.

There is a perfectly good competition in the league which should be expanded.
It is as obvious as the nose on your face. Where teams of as similar level play each other. Closer competitive games.

Maybe a knock out open draw in the last 8 of each 'Championship'

If you look at normal years in the Championship it is normally division 1 teams who contest the SF's (in normal years). That is no fluke. Also when was the last time a team outside division 1 team won Sam?

Over 2-4 year periods - league success largely correlates to 'championship' success. Or at least team improvement.
It is plainly obvious 1997-2020

But for some reason people expect a purely knock out competition where people play in lopsided provinces of huge variations of levels ,to be fair.

I think 'tradition' blinds a lot of people to the bleeding obvious.

How are Leitrim ever going to compete in Connacht or Waterford in Munster for example?

Running the League from March to May followed by a straight knockout 2 tier championship. Div 1 and 2 sides are in Tier 1. Div 3 and 4 sides are in Tier 2. Leaves Feb for provincials.

The Lost Sheep · 10-12-2020 04:46PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Running the League from March to May followed by a straight knockout 2 tier championship. Div 1 and 2 sides are in Tier 1. Div 3 and 4 sides are in Tier 2. Leaves Feb for provincials.

Why do you have to start and complete one competition before the next begins?
Run league and championship and provincial competitions concurrently.

gormdubhgorm · 10-12-2020 04:48PM

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Kerry have none of the advantages that Dublin have, kerry are just good at football.

Number 1 Kerry play in what is known as a 'hurling province' - where football is the second sport of counties at best - at worst it is not existent.

Yet Kerry have been given this advantage historically in a massively lopsided province. The most successful team in the country in one of the weakest provinces in the country.

Kerry were going for 8 in a row this year and won 15 out of the last 20 Munsters.
Only for Covid19 it would be likely that Kerry would have won 8 in a row.

Also Kerry are very weak in other sports such as soccer, which other counties such as Louth, Dubin, Cork have to compete with.

Not only that Kerry is not known as a strong Rugby area compared to Dublin, Cork, Limerick.

If anything Kerry have had things very handy for many a decade, both in the structure of Munster and in the lack of competition from other sports.

gormdubhgorm · 10-12-2020 04:52PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Running the League from March to May followed by a straight knockout 2 tier championship. Div 1 and 2 sides are in Tier 1. Div 3 and 4 sides are in Tier 2. Leaves Feb for provincials.

They should give that idea a lash just for one year - three. A trial and see how it goes. Let people get used to it.

If the GAA don't change the football structure, after having to think of different ways of doing things since covid19. They will never do it, Not in my lifetime anyway

gormdubhgorm · 10-12-2020 04:57PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Why do you have to start and complete one competition before the next begins?
Run league and championship and provincial competitions concurrently.

That would be even better, leaving more space for clubs.

One thing this year has shown is that the provinces are far too dragged out normally. It is really done for the sake of it imo. Almost so people forget most of the pointless matches, and start thinking of Super 8's and AI QF's.

The Lost Sheep · 10-12-2020 05:02PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That would be even better, leaving more space for clubs.

One thing this year has shown is that the provinces are far too dragged out normally. It is really done for the sake of it imo. Almost so people forget most of the pointless matches, and start thinking of Super 8's and AI QF's.

It just doesnt make sense. It would separate provincial cups but still keep their relevance and after early rounds of provincial cups you would have extra weekends for some counties to then play club games while counties still playing. No county/level should be able to hold players hostage as such and players be able to play club and club players get their most important games in the best weather which doesnt happen anywhere near enough

Rolo2010 · 10-12-2020 05:19PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Why do you have to start and complete one competition before the next begins?
Run league and championship and provincial competitions concurrently.

Why does it matter? It's not soccer and it lets players focus on the one competition like they would with the clubs.

Rolo2010 · 10-12-2020 05:30PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They should give that idea a lash just for one year - three. A trial and see how it goes. Let people get used to it.

If the GAA don't change the football structure, after having to think of different ways of doing things since covid19. They will never do it, Not in my lifetime anyway

It's not much different than what the Fixtures Review have proposed. Except you don't have weaker Div 3 and 4 teams getting into the All-Ireland over teams competing in Divs 1 and 2.

You'd have the following fixtures if it happened this year and used Jim McGuinness's 1 v 16, 2 v 15, etc format. You'd have to mix up the games to avoid one side of the draw being too strong. Say 1 v 16, 3 v 14, 5 v 12, 7 v 10 on one side.

Kerry v Down
Galway v Laois
Donegal v Westmeath
Roscommon v Meath

Dublin v Cork
Tyrone v Clare
Monaghan v Kildare
Armagh v Mayo

Likely QFs would be:

Kerry v Galway
Donegal v Roscommon

Dublin v Tyrone
Monaghan v Mayo

The Lost Sheep · 10-12-2020 05:34PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Why does it matter? It's not soccer and it lets players focus on the one competition like they would with the clubs.

Are players not capable of focusing on two competitions at the one time. It changes the whole way teams would approach the entire season/year. Everything is build build build towards the all ireland. The league can have a totally different viewpoint/seen totally different to how its seen now.

Rolo2010 · 10-12-2020 05:36PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Are players not capable of focusing on two competitions at the one time. It changes the whole way teams would approach the entire season/year. Everything is build build build towards the all ireland. The league can have a totally different viewpoint/seen totally different to how its seen now.

I'm sure they are but so far no one has expressed any interest in this. I'm sure the GPA would be promoting it if players wanted it.

Prop Joe · 10-12-2020 09:49PM

Any Black card foul should result in a free shot one on one with the keeper from 21 in football and from the top of the D in hurling + the 10min bin.....The bin is no punishment for stopping goal scoring opportunity

The Lost Sheep · 10-12-2020 09:55PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

I'm sure they are but so far no one has expressed any interest in this. I'm sure the GPA would be promoting it if players wanted it.

They still should do it. It doesnt make sense to just play all competitions one at a time. It allows all sides at all levels a chance to play more as if you play one competition at a time and have your primary competition last then you are rushing club games into the last period but if you set out league through the year with knockout inter county comps also interspaced between the league games you can set out a clear calender for club players and clubs to set their games.

Prop Joe wrote: »

Any Black card foul should result in a free shot one on one with the keeper from 21 in football and from the top of the D in hurling + the 10min bin.....The bin is no punishment for stopping goal scoring opportunity

No no no. All black cards shouldnt result in an almost guaranteed score.
The sin bin is a very suitable punishment and more than enough. A free even black card offence should take place from where the infringement happened unless inside where you can award a penalty...

Prop Joe · 10-12-2020 10:30PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

No no no. All black cards shouldnt result in an almost guaranteed score.
The sin bin is a very suitable punishment and more than enough. A free even black card offence should take place from where the infringement happened unless inside where you can award a penalty...

Just the connacht final was decided by a black card foul in the last minute..Mayo did the same v Tipp when through on goal and a tap over free is of no use to the opposition when that occurs..the penalty does not fit the crime..

The Lost Sheep · 10-12-2020 10:33PM

Prop Joe wrote: »

Just the connacht final was decided by a black card foul in the last minute..Mayo did the same v Tipp when through on goal and a tap over free is of no use to the opposition when that occurs..the penalty does not fit the crime..

Thats very occasionally and not all black card infringements deserve a penalty/free from 21.

PTH2009 · 14-12-2020 06:15PM

All for the clubs coming up first next year

Rolo2010 · 14-12-2020 06:40PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

All for the clubs coming up first next year

County will come first. Autumn/winter is more suited for clubs.

League will be split into groups of 4 and then we'll have championship with backdoor and no Super 8s. I hope they scrap that Tommy Murphy 2.0 because I had a look at how it would have worked this year and it's just a bad system.

PTH2009 · 16-12-2020 12:03AM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

County will come first. Autumn/winter is more suited for clubs.

League will be split into groups of 4 and then we'll have championship with backdoor and no Super 8s. I hope they scrap that Tommy Murphy 2.0 because I had a look at how it would have worked this year and it's just a bad system.

this year showed it can still happen to highest of standards in Autumn/Winter and also having clubs first gives more room for the vaccine to roll out and give hope of supporters attending matches etc How good would a late spring/summer National league be.

But as you said County will come first with empty stadiums

seligehgit · 19-12-2020 01:06AM

No Super 8s or hurling round robin, new league format and county before club - GAA reveal plan for 2021 season

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/no-super-8s-or-hurling-round-robin-new-league-format-and-county-before-club-gaa-reveal-plan-for-2021-season-39879571.html

RMAOK · 19-12-2020 01:10AM

seligehgit wrote: »

No Super 8s or hurling round robin, new league format and county before club - GAA reveal plan for 2021 season

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/no-super-8s-or-hurling-round-robin-new-league-format-and-county-before-club-gaa-reveal-plan-for-2021-season-39879571.html

Didn't mention in that article when the all-ireland club championship/finals would be.

Are they to end off the year in October?

breezy1985 · 19-12-2020 01:14AM

seligehgit wrote: »

No Super 8s or hurling round robin, new league format and county before club - GAA reveal plan for 2021 season

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/no-super-8s-or-hurling-round-robin-new-league-format-and-county-before-club-gaa-reveal-plan-for-2021-season-39879571.html

Love that the hurling league is straight to the final with no BS knockout rounds. Love the hurling round robin but no surprise it cant be fitted in but hopefully we never see the super 8 again.

And I dont care if club our county is first cause if we do get fans at some stage I will happily go to either

Rolo2010 · 19-12-2020 02:24PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

Love that the hurling league is straight to the final with no BS knockout rounds. Love the hurling round robin but no surprise it cant be fitted in but hopefully we never see the super 8 again.

And I dont care if club our county is first cause if we do get fans at some stage I will happily go to either

Presume the 2 teams knocked out in the Leinster QFs will be in the relegation final. So probably Antrim v Laois.

Rolo2010 · 19-12-2020 02:58PM

Tier 2 final before a hurling SF. I'd rather have both football finals on the same day but at least RTÉ won't be able to find a good excuse not to cover it.

breezy1985 · 19-12-2020 03:06PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Presume the 2 teams knocked out in the Leinster QFs will be in the relegation final. So probably Antrim v Laois.

Not really fair given that 4 teams could be out without winning a game

breezy1985 · 19-12-2020 03:07PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Tier 2 final before a hurling SF. I'd rather have both football finals on the same day but at least RTÉ won't be able to find a good excuse not to cover it.

I don't think that's how sports coverage works

Rolo2010 · 19-12-2020 03:18PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

I don't think that's how sports coverage works

Well RTE promised the GAA that they would cover so they have no excuse not to air the game if it is on before a hurling SF. They did it for the Joe McDonagh.

Rolo2010 · 19-12-2020 03:19PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

Not really fair given that 4 teams could be out without winning a game

Only way I can see. There has to be relegation next year.

breezy1985 · 19-12-2020 05:32PM

Rolo2010 wrote: »

Only way I can see. There has to be relegation next year.

It's probably the only available option without adding more games so it'll probably happen. Pity thought as it's unfair.

One possibility though is Kerry win and we get 6+6 with no relegation till the year after

Jaded Walker · 20-12-2020 03:28AM

I don't watch GAA very much these days and I was very disappointed in what I seen.
Catching a ball, raising your hand and you get a free kick?
All the players back in defense looks terrible too.
I think they need some rule about the number of players allowed in the 40. And they need to get rid of the free kick if you catch a ball.

Lucy8080 · 20-12-2020 03:33AM

Jaded Walker wrote: »

Catching a ball, raising your hand and you get a free kick?

That needs to be gotten rid of I think. Kieran Donaghy would have more All -Ireland medals if that rule existed when he played. Tyrone would definitely have suffered under those rules.

Changes in the GAA - super thread

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