Changes in the GAA - super thread

ShamoBuc · 05-12-2020 8:31pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Take Dublin out of Croke park for neutral games.

That will have little or no effect I think.

They can beat any team in any pitch in Ireland. The 'novelty' of playing away games might actually spur them on, rather than the same routine for every game.

The money and number of coaches needs to be somehow addressed.

tobefrank321 · 05-12-2020 8:31pm

tobefrank321 wrote: »

If Cavan come within 10 points of Dublin it will be a moral victory. Dublin to win by 15 points.

I should have put money on it!

Stacksofwacks · 05-12-2020 8:31pm

Best course of action is to split Dublin in 2 from next year. If those 2 teams are still too strong for the rest in a couple of years split into 4 until it evens out

tanko · 05-12-2020 8:31pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

She brought up the topic, the lads all contributed, commenting on money, population, coaching, managements etc.

What exactly do you want her to do, given they had less than 5 minutes?
Seriously?

She didn't bring up the financial doping topic, O Rourke did. She tells him to stop talking about it and later starts waffling about what the other counties have to do, so she tried to steer the conversation away from Dublins advantages all the time.

ShamoBuc · 05-12-2020 8:32pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

They didn't like their answers. ��

Apart from Seán but Tomás jumped in quickly and Colm wants them split to the four corners of the county.

Mantis Toboggan · 05-12-2020 8:34pm

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Best course of action is to split Dublin in 2 from next year. If those 2 teams are still too strong for the rest in a couple of years split into 4 until it evens out

Not sure if splitting into 4 is warranted but I think North and South would be the obvious choice.

05-12-2020 8:35pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

The break up of Dublin grows closer.

It can’t happen without joining up other counties. The day that happens the GAA is dead and buried.

Enquiring · 05-12-2020 8:36pm

tanko wrote: »

She didn't bring up the financial doping topic, O Rourke did. She tells him to stop talking about it and later starts waffling about what the other counties have to do, so she tried to steer the conversation away from Dublins advantages all the time.

Yes, it was clear she was taking the angle that something must be done about other counties and not what should be done with the real problem; Dublin.

It was great to hear some discussion on it though. It's usually silenced. This shows that this is really growing momentum now. It's slow progress but discussing the splitting of Dublin will be brought to the table. The closing of ranks will be fierce in the coming days/weeks. The Dubs will be out in force across the media trying to deflect this like Cantwell was, it's not Dublin's fault everyone else can compete will be the line.

We need high profile individuals to stand against this and point out the facts. A professional outfit does not belong in our amateur sport.

Roots 2020 · 05-12-2020 10:27pm

Strumms wrote: »

Nope, an impartial, respected and experienced ex county footballer, who enjoyed success himself, isn’t blinded by bitterness. :)

Not at all. Just won't call it.

Everyone knows the advantages Dublin have.

Big Ears · 05-12-2020 10:28pm

ArielAtom wrote: »

I’m just pointing out facts. There since 2018. If that’s not long enough maybe VFM is not being met.

Are you suggesting that an S&C coach who can't bring a team in 18-24 months up to the same standard as players who've been doing it 10+ years (starting in underage development set ups) isn't delivering value for money ?

Perhaps if Brian Cody couldn't turn a randomer off the street into Intercounty standard in a couple of years he'd be ****e too ?......

CruelSummer · 05-12-2020 10:28pm

I think all other counties should refuse to play Dublin until either the funding disparity is resolved, or they split Dublin to level the playing field. The GAA have no notion of splitting county Dublin unless they’re forced to. It will destroy Gaelic football in the long term to have Dublin play professionally while all other counties play amateur level. What Dublin gets, all Division 1 teams should get.

ArielAtom · 05-12-2020 10:32pm

Cavan_King wrote: »

You’re twisting “facts”. He was appointed in November 2018 and had to work out notice with London Irish. He did start work with Cavan by sending on some programmes towards the end of 2018 but he was still based in London and didn’t move back to Ireland until early 19 after his notice was done.

https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2018/11/09/news/respected-rugby-coach-andre-quinn-appointed-cavan-s-head-of-athletic-performance-1481018/

Jim McGuinness reckons it takes up to 4 years to get a player up to present intercounty level for S&C by the way. Again, I ask, how long have Dublin had a professional in place?

We were also only I think the third county to a point a professional for this after, surprise, surprise, Dublin, being the first, and Tyrone the second.

By the way, you ignored the entire rest of my post so care to address it? The bit about if only getting a gym, only building training pitches and other counties not having professional CEOs to run their county boards.

But I guess we’ll just label that “begrudgy” and move on. It’s just a huge coincidence that this “golden generation” of players arrived a few years after millions was pumped into Dublin GAA.

I’ve said a solution to the perceived problem is required, please read back on my contribution on other threads. But Dublins success is due to money. I personally find that obnoxious as I’ve volunteered at my club for years, it as we all know Dubs don’t volunteer!!!!

Cavan_King · 05-12-2020 10:38pm

ArielAtom wrote: »

I’ve said a solution to the perceived problem is required, please read back on my contribution on other threads. But Dublins success is due to money. I personally find that obnoxious as I’ve volunteered at my club for years, it as we all know Dubs don’t volunteer!!!!

Step down off the soapbox please and stop trying to twist the “facts” again,

Nobody said Dubs don’t volunteer but the fact is that Dublin have huge advantages over other counties due to the funding they were given. You’ve just made a point that Cavan S&C should be as good as Dublin because Cavan have had a professional in place for under two years whereas Dublin have had one for ten. It’s a bit of a ridiculous point.

Dublin also have a professional in place to run their county board which other counties just don’t have. This professional can look after advertising, staff etc. on a full time basis whereas the likes of Cavan have a man trying to juggle the county board with a multi million pound business.

To suggest items like this don’t make a difference is ludicrous. Money talks in all sports.

ArielAtom · 05-12-2020 10:47pm

Big Ears wrote: »

Are you suggesting that an S&C coach who can't bring a team in 18-24 months up to the same standard as players who've been doing it 10+ years (starting in underage development set ups) isn't delivering value for money ?

Perhaps if Brian Cody couldn't turn a randomer off the street into Intercounty standard in a couple of years he'd be ****e too ?......

Your analogy is poor. Yes I’m saying that a S&C coach who has worked at a professional level for 10yrs could not get a group of Athletes who I’m sure have been working on S&C under a different coach up to standard is failing, considering to salary he is on. Don’t mention the 💰

Charles Babbage · 05-12-2020 10:51pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It can’t happen without joining up other counties. The day that happens the GAA is dead and buried.

Other counties being small is mostly a problem for themselves, not for everyone else. Every county has small clubs, and the country can have small counties. But no county can have a single club with one quarter of the population and neither can the county.

Cavan_King · 05-12-2020 10:54pm

ArielAtom wrote: »

Your analogy is poor. Yes I’m saying that a S&C coach who has worked at a professional level for 10yrs could not get a group of Athletes who I’m sure have been working on S&C under a different coach up to standard is failing, considering to salary he is on. Don’t mention the ðŸ’°

Part of the reason Cavan went and got a full time coach is because they found previous S&C coaches had changed approaches and they wanted to get one consistent approach for all teams.

Just handy for Dublin that they had the funding to organize that consistent approach ten years earlier.

But then Dublin do have a full time CEO to organise staff. Cavan have a man running a full time business trying to find the time to organise the resources for their setup.

CruelSummer · 05-12-2020 11:01pm

Amount given to each county based on number or registered players (2007-2018)
Dublin €270.70 per player
Mayo €22.30
Tyrone €21
Kerry €19

2019 Coaching Grants from Croke Park for this year's All-Ireland semi-finalists
Dublin €1,337,620 = €652.82 each for 2,049 registered youth teams (RYT)
Cavan £183,006 = €646.65 each for 283 RYTs
Mayo €168,219 =£320.41 each for 525 RYTs
Tipperary €226,800 =€214,97 each for 1,005 RYTs

GAA funding between 2007 and 2019. Dublin received over 35% of the €54.6m allocated to counties
1 Dublin €19.2m
2 Cork €2.4m
3 Tyrone €828,716

GAA spending on coaching for the provinces
Leinster €16m
Ulster €12.9m
Munster €11.8m
Connacht €8.3m

selassie · 05-12-2020 11:02pm

Split Dublin into 4 and put one in each provincial championship, how long would it take to win all 4 in one season? 3 years max if we were unlucky I think.

ArielAtom · 05-12-2020 11:02pm

Cavan_King wrote: »

Part of the reason Cavan went and got a full time coach is because they found previous S&C coaches had changed approaches and they wanted to get one consistent approach for all teams.

Just handy for Dublin that they had the funding to organize that consistent approach ten years earlier.

But then Dublin do have a full time CEO to organise staff. Cavan have a man running a full time business trying to find the time to organise the resources for their setup.

So Cavan are on a level playing field with the financial investment. Thanks.

ArielAtom · 05-12-2020 11:05pm

generalgerry wrote: »

It's a professional team with professional funding against amateur teams. It is not just a "golden generation", it will keep going until the GAA make a concerted effort to balance things up for the other counties.

The thanks here really shows the total lack of knowledge regarding funding from 2005 to date.

CorkRed93 · 05-12-2020 11:05pm

All Ireland sadly heading in the direction of LSFC. A complete waste of players time and efforts playing in what is a fix in all but name.

Cavan_King · 05-12-2020 11:06pm

ArielAtom wrote: »

So Cavan are on a level playing field with the financial investment. Thanks.

So you can’t debate my points so just ignore them? You’re doing a better job of proving my point on this thread than anyone. You tried to hang onto a point about Cavan having a full time S&C and now won’t back down on it.

FintanMcluskey · 05-12-2020 11:09pm

Would the Dubs be competitive in the Australian Football league?

The certainly have the athleticism

ArielAtom · 05-12-2020 11:09pm

Cavan_King wrote: »

So you can’t debate my points so just ignore them? You’re doing a better job of proving my point on this thread than anyone. You tried to hang onto a point about Cavan having a full time S&C and now won’t back down on it.

Cavan have the equivalent of Dublin if not superior to Dublin when it come s to S&C. Are you debating that as a fact?

Big Ears · 05-12-2020 11:12pm

ArielAtom wrote: »

Your analogy is poor. Yes I’m saying that a S&C coach who has worked at a professional level for 10yrs could not get a group of Athletes who I’m sure have been working on S&C under a different coach up to standard is failing, considering to salary he is on. Don’t mention the ðŸ’°

My analogy was ludicrous.......because your criticism was ludicrous.

Cavan looked to me to be very well physically prepared. They do look a hell of a lot fitter and stronger than they have in previous years. I'm judging from the outside looking in, but to me it seems like he's done a tremendous job, and helped give them the physical capabilities to beat a team like Donegal.

However they weren't physically up to the level of Dublin. Perhaps in time they'll bridge that gap somewhat, even if they're unlikely to bridge the gap technically.
However it does have to be noted that even with the best S&C in the World (ideally started from a young age like Dublin do) players are still capped by their genetics in terms of maximum potential.

Cavan_King · 05-12-2020 11:14pm

ArielAtom wrote: »

Cavan have the equivalent of Dublin if not superior to Dublin when it come s to S&C. Are you debating that as a fact?

We have the equivalent of one staff member a decade after Dublin. For all I know, Dublin could have two or three S&C lad lads full time by now with different teams working under Bryan Cullen.

You also expect Andre Quinn to work wonders in two years when coaches like Jim McGuinness, have said it takes 4 years to get a player up to intercounty standard.

We are also one of only a few counties with that equivalent for S&C as I’ve pointed out.

Care to comment on Dublin’s full time CEO and staff whereas other counties rely on volunteers? Not to mention the facilities available whereas Cavan are trying to fund training pitches and only got a gym this year.

RoyalCelt · 05-12-2020 11:17pm

CruelSummer wrote: »

I think all other counties should refuse to play Dublin until either the funding disparity is resolved, or they split Dublin to level the playing field. The GAA have no notion of splitting county Dublin unless they’re forced to. It will destroy Gaelic football in the long term to have Dublin play professionally while all other counties play amateur level. What Dublin gets, all Division 1 teams should get.

There's two choices facing the dinosaurs who sit on County boards. Either boycott now and get change fast our sit back and watch Dublin win the next 20 all Irelands and Leinsters.

I feel like change won't come until dublin start winning Leinster and All Irelands in hurling. Then all those hurling Counties who turned a blind eye will suddenly care.

No different to how kerry, Cork, mayo, galway, donegal, Tyrone etc didn't give a **** about leinster getting ruined until it happened to the all Ireland too.

Big Ears · 05-12-2020 11:17pm

ArielAtom wrote: »

I’ve said a solution to the perceived problem is required, please read back on my contribution on other threads. But Dublins success is due to money. I personally find that obnoxious as I’ve volunteered at my club for years, it as we all know Dubs don’t volunteer!!!!

Did you receive guidance from a GDA/GPO/GDM or paid coach ?

Or were you given guidance/help from an individual/s who learned a lot themselves from a paid GDA/GPO/GDM ?

Dublin has loads of phenomenal volunteers, thankfully for them a lot of those volunteers are given great direction in how to optimally develop and bring on players. Much more so than a lot of other counties.

RoyalCelt · 05-12-2020 11:25pm

CruelSummer wrote: »

Amount given to each county based on number or registered players (2007-2018)
Dublin €270.70 per player
Mayo €22.30
Tyrone €21
Kerry €19

2019 Coaching Grants from Croke Park for this year's All-Ireland semi-finalists
Dublin €1,337,620 = €652.82 each for 2,049 registered youth teams (RYT)
Cavan £183,006 = €646.65 each for 283 RYTs
Mayo €168,219 =£320.41 each for 525 RYTs
Tipperary €226,800 =€214,97 each for 1,005 RYTs

GAA funding between 2007 and 2019. Dublin received over 35% of the €54.6m allocated to counties
1 Dublin €19.2m
2 Cork €2.4m
3 Tyrone €828,716

GAA spending on coaching for the provinces
Leinster €16m
Ulster €12.9m
Munster €11.8m
Connacht €8.3m

Why has this post been ignored by dublin posters?

C__MC · 05-12-2020 11:32pm

I have to admit I enjoyed dublins 5in a row, it had alot of thrills and spills and they were lucky to survive a few times, but that's their greatness.

The worry is now they are starting to pull away from the pack at a rapid speed.
The GAA has tried them away from croker, they past that test, super eights, works in their favour.

The 3 in a row was hard won but the last two have been easy enough , bar the drawn game last September. It's up to a rookie mayo team to beat them or Tipperary who are in Division 3 for 2021.
What's the GAAs next move? Provincial championships will be around for another 20 years given the events of this year. Realistically in the next 10 years who can beat Dublin? Kerry perhaps and probably mayo, after that I'm not so sure.
Splitting Dublin? Is that realistic ? Surely given the symbolic history of Dublin GAA, it will be met with resistance.
I don't think Gaelic football will never not be popular but the GAA have created a super power in the metropolitans.

Changes in the GAA - super thread

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