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Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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    #6242
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,354 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    robbiezero wrote: »
    Yes, How could people be expected to understand complex medical issues like if a vaccine isn't ready until next year, that it might still be possible to catch Covid now. That would just go over your average Joes head.

    He needs to start using the cows example from Fr Ted to make it even more clear to people.

    They may have to yet, there seems to be a lot of general bewilderment about why NPHET are still preaching caution.


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    #6243
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Arghus wrote: »
    If it walks like a duck...
    Thinking NPHET are wrong =/= being against restrictions.


    I think NPHET are a load of media-obsessed scaremongerers tbh who have constantly lied at the press conferences.
    But I agree with the current restrictions, to an extent.



    Am I anti-restrictions?


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    #6244
    Str8outtaWuhan
    Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    daydorunrun wrote: »
    I’ve had a pretty news free day which was great. Just catching up on things now.
    Am I right in thinking that if we come out of level 5 on the 1st of December the north will be their circuit breaker with Nonessential retail closed which will in effect reverse the flow of shoppers across the border?

    Dundalk, letterkenny , cavan town will all be swamped my our northern breathern


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    #6245
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,494 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1329522503560130567


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    #6246
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    So it seems that men (in well paid, secure and permanent posts) who are going to the office every day are criticising others who are in far less secure employment for attending the work place.


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    #6247
    manofwisdom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭manofwisdom


    County cases per day average over the last two weeks. In brackets the numbers this time last week.

    Dublin. 120 (141)
    Limerick 31 (28)
    Cork. 31 (47)
    Donegal 30 (32)
    Meath 18 (23)
    Louth 16 (15)
    Kildare 13 (15)
    Galway 13 (18)
    Waterford 13 (10)
    Tipperary 12 (13)
    Mayo 10 (14)
    Clare 9 (9)
    Westmeath 9 (11)
    Kerry 9 (14)
    Offaly 8 (6)
    Roscommon 8 (8 )
    Kilkenny 8 (9)
    Wicklow 6 (7)
    Laois 6 (9)
    Cavan 5 (6)
    Monaghan 5 (5)
    Carlow 4 (4)
    Wexford 4 (5)
    Sligo 4 (7)
    Longford 3 (4)
    Leitrim 2 (1)


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    #6248
    ElTel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭ElTel


    Benimar wrote: »
    In the 15 days prior to that swabs were 857 higher. It all comes out in the wash.

    They might be delaying the numbers (I still don't think its deliberate) but they aren't creating cases.

    If it's not deliberate they should explain it. When cases are announced and graphed determines people's ideas of trends. Do sero positive people get added as cases and if yes (would make sense to me) when and where?

    When they then graph this info (sporadically) by epi date the peak seems to shift back a week.

    Professor Nolan has been "promising" an explanation of what their insights are during this second wave and how the different restriction levels impacted the curves but it's been poor.

    I'm going to assume the graphs today (we couldn't see) are the same posted by Wadacrack earlier

    https://twitter.com/roinnslainte/status/1329491737333686272

    Why not concentrate on this wave? How about a graph for Dublin only by epi date?

    Check out the Growth rate for case numbers graph.
    Hard to decipher is putting it mildly.
    The header note includes...
    L3 measures in Dublin reduced growth rate to zero for a period (data not shown)


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    #6249
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »
    Swabs v Cases do match and have done since the start.

    Why do you think they shouldn't?

    Well the very rubbish you seem to be reading sort of tells you that it doesn't match.

    Cases 69,473 v Swabs 73,619 how is that a match?

    Due to repeated swabs on existing cases swabs will always be higher in labware, but you also have to factor in that not every test is connected to labware so the swab is not reported on the website but a case can still be reported.

    so you just have to accept rubbish in rubbish out.


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    #6250
    What Username Guidelines
    Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1329522503560130567

    Silly me thinking we had reached peak "Are you f**king serious?" phase of the pandemic. The mind boggles.


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    #6251
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,354 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    Thinking NPHET are wrong =/= being against restrictions.


    I think NPHET are a load of media-obsessed scaremongerers tbh who have constantly lied at the press conferences.
    But I agree with the current restrictions, to an extent.



    Am I anti-restrictions?

    You seemed to think they were paragons of objectivity when they said things you agreed with during the summer, but of course, now they are lying scaremongers...

    I don't believe their message has essentially changed, just that you are now faced with more that you don't want to hear that you can't just outright ignore or dismiss it, so you're prepared to write them off, despite having made numerous previous appeals to their authority.

    I'll trust their expertise any day of the week over yours I'm afraid: your forecasting skills are not renowned for their accuracy.

    For what it's worth I don't think they, NPHET, are infallible and, yes, I can understand why people find Tony Holohan abrasive, but I think they're giving sound advice, but people are sulking and moaning about it.

    It is tough and ****ty time for everyone - but the essential importance and motivations behind the message they are trying to convey in the press briefings are still very important.

    Are you anti-restrictions? I can hardly accuse of being anti-restrictions if you genuinely support them, but you seem to be gradually on that slippery emotionally reactionary slope of opposing more and more of the public health advice.


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    #6252
    GazzaL
    Registered Users Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭GazzaL


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    No doubt you will be able to cite a case of this with NPHET....

    You managed to highlight just 1 bullet point from a list of 10. You should note another line from what you chose to quote from my post, i.e. they "tick a lot of the boxes." I didn't say they tick all the boxes. Thank you for proving me right.


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    #6253
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Arghus wrote: »
    You seemed to think they were paragons of objectivity when they said things you agreed with during the summer, but of course, now they are lying scaremongers...

    I don't believe their message has essentially changed, just that you are now faced with more that you don't want to hear that you can't just outright ignore or dismiss it, so you're prepared to write them off, despite having made numerous previous appeals to their authority.

    I'll trust their expertise any day of the week over yours I'm afraid: your forecasting skills are not renowned for their accuracy.

    For what it's worth I don't think they, NPHET, are infallible and, yes, I can understand why people find Tony Holohan abrasive, but I think they're giving sound advice, but people are sulking and moaning about it.

    It is tough and ****ty time for everyone - but the essential importance and motivations behind the message they are trying to convey in the press briefings are still very important.

    Are you anti-restrictions? I can hardly accuse of being anti-restrictions if you genuinely support them, but you seem to be gradually on that slippery emotionally reactionary slope of opposing more and more of the public health advice.
    More that I don't want to hear? Yeah, I want to hear about how our hospitals and healthcare workers have been thrown under the ****ing bridge by these fellas at the top. But I'm an issue apparently :rolleyes: Right.
    It's clear as day that if NPHET said jump and people said how high you'd probably question their 'motivations'.


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    #6254
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,292 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    RIP, the 4 people who died


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    #6255
    Polar101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭Polar101


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    It's clear as day that if NPHET said jump and people said how high you'd probably question their 'motivations'.

    Has there been any advice from NPHET that asks people to do idiotic things without question?


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    #6256
    Will Yam
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Will Yam


    What nphet (nor anyone else) has satisfactorily explained is why the numbers upturned after 4 weeks of decline.

    We have been told that when the R number is below 1 it reduces the spread of the virus. It came down, significantly, to somewhere in the region of 0.5 or 0.6.

    So if the R number goes down why do the numbers go up?

    Something doesn’t add up here.


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    #6257
    niallo27
    Registered Users Posts: 16,005 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Polar101 wrote: »
    Has there been any advice from NPHET that asks people to do idiotic things without question?

    Expecting people to stay within 5km of their houses is pretty idiotic, back in march telling people it was fine to visit nursing homes was pretty idiotic.


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    #6258
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,354 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    More that I don't want to hear? Yeah, I want to hear about how our hospitals and healthcare workers have been thrown under the ****ing bridge by these fellas at the top. But I'm an issue apparently :rolleyes: Right.
    It's clear as day that if NPHET said jump and people said how high you'd probably question their 'motivations'.

    No, not necessarily. I'm always prepared to hear another point of view, if it's in good faith.

    I don't think I'm so far gone that if NPHET advised people to do something that made no logical sense I'd support it no questions asked.

    I think the questions about what exactly is going on in hospitals and so forth are important and should be asked, absolutely. I know, just from watching the briefings that Tony H doesn't want to place any blame on any part of any doings of the HSE or the DoH.We aren't told the full truth on occasion. However I think focusing on the issue of HCW infections and in-hospital infections is a bit of a distraction from the wider picture.

    And I believe we aren't told the full truth regarding schools on occasion either, even if I can understand, politically, why that is the case.

    But I think those are essentially separate issues to whether NPHET are right to constantly be cautious and to repeat the same messages ad nauseuem to the public at large. I think their reasons for doing so and methods for doing so are still fundamentally sound.


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    #6259
    GazzaL
    Registered Users Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭GazzaL


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Expecting people to stay within 5km of their houses is pretty idiotic, back in march telling people it was fine to visit nursing homes was pretty idiotic.

    Ssssssssshhhhhh.............. Don't mention the FAILURES of NPHET!


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    #6260
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Just switched on prime time. Who is Aoife that is getting destroyed by the Irish Times journalist?


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    #6261
    Oscar Bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,066 ✭✭✭✭Oscar Bravo


    Aoife and her book shop.lol,what a clown


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    #6262
    Cork2021
    Registered Users Posts: 2,261 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    Aoife McLysaght is a gowl!! Wants level 5 until we get to single digits and screw the unemployment


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    #6263
    spookwoman
    Registered Users Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    It's still up to hospital management to implement and make sure protocols are being adhered to. It's also hospital management make the decision if staff come into work or not.

    Please Note: As you are a Healthcare Worker you MAY be given derogation by your manager to return
    to work if you are essential to that service, which means you may be allowed to work with additional
    monitoring. However, your manager will contact you if this is the case. If you do return to work you
    must continue to restrict movements and adhere to these instructions outside of work. You will be
    asked to do additional monitoring while in work, which will be coordinated by your manager. You can
    only return to work if you have no symptoms. See ‘Further Information’ on this page for the link.

    HSE say if HCW is possible contact they must self isolate

    https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/workplace-health-and-wellbeing-unit/covid-19-guidance/healthcare-worker-covid-19-close-contact-information-leaflet.pdf


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    #6264
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,225 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Polar101 wrote: »
    Has there been any advice from NPHET that asks people to do idiotic things without question?

    Sure here are some:
    1. Close your business indefinitely and we won’t give you any idea whatsoever when you can reopen so you can be totally unprepared when we drop the bomb at the 11th hour. Or better still, you won’t be able to reopen at all as we’ll make sure these lockdowns keep rolling on with no alternative plan.
    2. Live in fear 24/7 and keep studying all those anecdotal stories peddled out daily to keep you in line.
    3. People who drink outdoors enjoying themselves are the scourge of society - who are causing the current numbers to not go down. It’s got nothing to do with mismanagement in our hospitals and nursing homes where residents and staff weren’t even being tested on a daily basis.
    4. You’re sick, even if you’re not actually sick because our ultra reliable PCR test says so.
    5. Exercising within 5km will stop you getting and transmitting Covid.
    6. Ireland is a utopia where we live on fresh air. Oops not true and when we go bankrupt, we NPHET won’t be responsible or answerable to anyone as we’re an unelected body of doctors just out to further our own agendas.


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    #6265
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Some guy on Prime Time stating there is no evidence of virus transmission in shops and that they should be open.....exactly the same argument for schools.

    This sort of bollocks talk has to stop.....whereby there's "no evidence" in circimstances where we are not even collecting data.

    The data on schools is corrupt as HSE are telling everyone found positive and who attends schools that their infection was caught in the community


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    #6266
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I am beyond caring about what NPHET are saying or the soul destroying discourse about restrictions and what not.

    What I want to hear now is how this country is gearing up for the massive vaccination challenge ahead. The vaccine debate now has to move onto deployment with the positive news from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna this week. It is coming and we need to be ready for it. The general public are sick to shít of this and just want it over. The vaccine will finish this period of ****e off for once and for all.

    Getting this right is beyond important. Every day in this mess we have people unemployed, locked in their houses, losing the run of themselves. We will very soon have the weapon to end this, and focus needs to completely switch to how they can to this without ****ing it up. Every day in this purgatory is a step closer to the end but the country can end this quicker by doing this successfully.

    There's a lot coming out from countries such as the US and UK about how they will pull this off but unfortunately not too much from Ireland. Which is worrying because a lot of people in the country laugh at those two countries being run by imbeciles but they seem awake and tuned in to the sound of the oncoming vaccine train.


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    #6267
    Cork2021
    Registered Users Posts: 2,261 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    Peter Flynt wrote: »
    Some guy on Prime Time stating there is no evidence of virus transmission in shops and that they should be open.....exactly the same argument for schools.

    This sort of bollocks talk has to stop.....whereby there's "no evidence" in circimstances where we are not even collecting data.

    The data on schools is corrupt as HSE are telling everyone found positive and who attends schools that their infection was caught in the community

    It’s true that there has been cases and clusters in all sectors but it’s NPHET that are not acknowledging anything to do with the large clusters in our hospitals currently. They’ll keep saying workplaces but won’t go as far as saying it’s the hospitals or schools or wherever there’s a large outbreak. It’s always the community’s fault


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    #6268
    froog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    NPHET aren't some cartoon like sinister supervillian team. they're a bunch of academics and public health experts genuinely doing their best to save lives in a very very difficult situation and against an uncomfortably growing misinformation, conspiracy theory and anti science culture we have inherited from the USA. they get some things wrong, but they are good people doing their best under enormous pressure and they have us in a good position right now. i'd rather be in ireland than any other country in the world dealing with COVID right now and if everyone is being totally honest they'd think the same.


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    #6269
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,354 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    froog wrote: »
    NPHET aren't some cartoon like sinister supervillian team. they're a bunch of academics and public health experts genuinely doing their best to save lives in a very very difficult situation and against an uncomfortably growing misinformation, conspiracy theory and anti science culture we have inherited from the USA. they get some things wrong, but they are good people doing their best under enormous pressure and they have us in a good position right now. i'd rather be in ireland than any other country in the world dealing with COVID right now and if everyone is being totally honest they'd think the same.

    Well, maybe I'd choose New Zealand, but in general, agreed.


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    #6270
    aziz
    Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭aziz


    froog wrote: »
    NPHET aren't some cartoon like sinister supervillian team. they're a bunch of academics and public health experts genuinely doing their best to save THEIR OWN ARSES

    fixed that for you


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    #6271
    mcburns07
    Registered Users Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    froog wrote: »
    NPHET aren't some cartoon like sinister supervillian team. they're a bunch of academics and public health experts genuinely doing their best to save lives in a very very difficult situation and against an uncomfortably growing misinformation, conspiracy theory and anti science culture we have inherited from the USA. they get some things wrong, but they are good people doing their best under enormous pressure and they have us in a good position right now. i'd rather be in ireland than any other country in the world dealing with COVID right now and if everyone is being totally honest they'd think the same.

    Regardless of NPHET's motives, you're naive if you think they aren't influenced heavily by the government and the HSE to message things in whatever way suits them.


This discussion has been closed.
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