Is The Property Market Unfair to First Time Buyers?

brisan wrote: »

Yes

Explain that. How would your daughter have been able to buy when she did if she hadn't been able to save by living with you?

I assume most people work 9-5/6. Excluding Covid times whats to stop people getting a job in a bar, restaurant etc for a year or two. Would bring in another 500 pm after tax and excluding tips.

We're very fortunate to have a deposit. Before I met my gf I saved for a deposit on my own which took me 2 years(this month being the end) for a place of 350k. My partner at one stage worked 3 jobs (before I met her) to get her deposit ready with her base job then around 32k. Now she earns a decent bit more in her current job but had to make huge sacrifices, she didn't have even a weekend away for 3 years! I work on average 60 hours a week but thankfully my package is good but career has cost me a lot personally to get here. Together we should have enough 15% deposit on a 500k place an a 3 month emergency fund which will be brought up to 6 month asap! On the side she is still considering an extra job for 2/3 monthst o get our emergency fund up quicker! I invest which brings in enough to pay for a free trip away each year.

We both paid for uni by working (I did grinds and a cleaner at weekend, she worked in a hotel). Student loans is honestly an awful idea and any student that I went to college with excluding medicine had time for an external job. Actually, thats not a full truth, my friends son is doing medicine and has a weekend job to pay for his own stuff (but yes he lives at home). My ex had a 2.2 in Media studies from a dog **** University and left with 20k in student loans and ended up ina job that was possible from A-levels only. Not a dig at her but I am still perplexed how her family let her do that.

Tbh though, life is not fair. I don't believe everyone is entitled to own their own home. For example, look on the continent where they rent for life, some people will never be able to afford their own home.

@lainey_d I am struggling to believe what you are saying about saving is 100% exact. I'm not saying you are lying but maybe a bit off. The UK tax rate is lower than Ireland. Why are you not doing a LISA provided by the govt there. You put in 4000 a year and they give you 1000 add on each year. This repeats itself over 4 years. So you put in 16000 and receive 20000. Then if you put in an S&P tracker in the LISA any gains are tax exempt. Over a 4 year period your probability of making a positive return is in the high 80th percentil. Return likely around 10% either side, so in 4 years you will have put in 16000 and MAY walk out with somewhere between 18k-22k (once it is used to draw down a house. Any other savings can go into another ISA. Its all free money The! The general rule if you are struggling to get a house deposit together is to stop your pension for 2 years and throw that money at the deposit. A 2 year period won't make a huge difference in your net worth if you own a property upon retirement.

I'm nearly sure UK companies now have to give a min of 4% towards pension anyway (open to correction on that).

My brother and his gf are doing this and expect to have to save for 3.5 more years out of 5 on a 300k place in Watford which has a 15min speed train to Euston. Plenty in the outskirts also e.g Reading. I think they earn about 75-80k between but this will likely rise a decent bit by then due to passing professional exams.

PHG wrote: »

I assume most people work 9-5/6. Excluding Covid times whats to stop people getting a job in a bar, restaurant etc for a year or two. Would bring in another 500 pm after tax and excluding tips.

You're pretty good at the old ableism, aren't you? I have a chronic illness and struggle to even work full time. A lot of people with my condition aren't working at all. And having a chronic illness or disability isn't as rare as you probably think. How many people in other generations had to work an extra job on top of a full time job just to buy a house?

We're very fortunate to have a deposit. Before I met my gf I saved for a deposit on my own which took me 2 years(this month being the end) for a place of 350k. My partner at one stage worked 3 jobs (before I met her) to get her deposit ready with her base job then around 32k. Now she earns a decent bit more in her current job but had to make huge sacrifices, she didn't have even a weekend away for 3 years! I work on average 60 hours a week but thankfully my package is good but career has cost me a lot personally to get here. Together we should have enough 15% deposit on a 500k place an a 3 month emergency fund which will be brought up to 6 month asap! On the side she is still considering an extra job for 2/3 monthst o get our emergency fund up quicker! I invest which brings in enough to pay for a free trip away each year.

Oh no, not even a weekend away! I pretty much had no holidays or weekends away between about 2007 and 2012 because I couldn't afford them. Not because I was saving for a deposit, but because I literally had no money left over after paying for essentials.

We both paid for uni by working (I did grinds and a cleaner at weekend, she worked in a hotel). Student loans is honestly an awful idea and any student that I went to college with excluding medicine had time for an external job. Actually, thats not a full truth, my friends son is doing medicine and has a weekend job to pay for his own stuff (but yes he lives at home). My ex had a 2.2 in Media studies from a dog **** University and left with 20k in student loans and ended up ina job that was possible from A-levels only. Not a dig at her but I am still perplexed how her family let her do that.

I worked all the way through college. Didn't stop me needing loans. How many hours were you working that you could fund rent, bills, food, transport and everything else while doing a full-time course?

Tbh though, life is not fair. I don't believe everyone is entitled to own their own home. For example, look on the continent where they rent for life, some people will never be able to afford their own home.

Sure, but would you not say that average earners with full time jobs should be able to buy something by the time they're, say, 35? Yet many cannot.

@lainey_d I am struggling to believe what you are saying about saving is 100% exact. I'm not saying you are lying but maybe a bit off. The UK tax rate is lower than Ireland. Why are you not doing a LISA provided by the govt there. You put in 4000 a year and they give you 1000 add on each year. This repeats itself over 4 years. So you put in 16000 and receive 20000. Then if you put in an S&P tracker in the LISA any gains are tax exempt. Over a 4 year period your probability of making a positive return is in the high 80th percentil. Return likely around 10% either side, so in 4 years you will have put in 16000 and MAY walk out with somewhere between 18k-22k (once it is used to draw down a house. Any other savings can go into another ISA. Its all free money The! The general rule if you are struggling to get a house deposit together is to stop your pension for 2 years and throw that money at the deposit. A 2 year period won't make a huge difference in your net worth if you own a property upon retirement.

I am doing that, but as you say yourself, investing is risky and I could end up with 2K extra, or at best 6K, IF everything went well (which it probably won't...we're about to go into a major recession). It's still a bit of a drop in the ocean in terms of the amount I actually need to save.

jill_valentine wrote: »

Welcome to the land of Zero Hour contracts -

They're designed to split shifts so you don't have to pay anybody for breaktime (ie when they're not working). They also don't want any individual worker to accrue enough hours for too many entitlements etc.

What this means is that bars have a huge staff, but with shifts that are scattered all over the schedule in dribs and drabs rather than running in a chunk. Every bar in the city is run this way, and most restaurants, because most are run by either PressUp or one of their competitors and that is their business model. I used to have to plan zero hour schedules and my flatmate is a barman - every second is accounted for, handovers are either done on your own time or don't happen, and it is taken for granted that you're going to work extra hours for free to cover off the end of your shifts on the regular.

A part time job in today's market does not mean a job you can do along with another one, it means a job you're available for at all times, whatever times suit your boss. In bars and restaurants that means you need to be as available at 9:00am for prep for as you are at 7pm for a hen party. And sometimes both, the dreaded swing shift which is usually on a Friday, where you essentially work two shifts, in the morning and evening, prepping stuff for the whole weekend in the morning, then going home for just long enough that it's technically a separate shift so they don't have to pay you for your break, and then coming back for the evening shift. That gap in between? Is somebody else's entire shift.

So what's this got to do with a 9-5? Well, the first thing a catering or pub job will ask you for is your "Availabilities". You will hear this term all the time, and you'll usually get a little grid to fill out. If you don't have Availabilities they won't hire you. If your Availabilities change and you no longer suit them all the time, you "won't be scheduled" next week. A Zero Hours job I used to work had me work a one hour shift more than once. It wasn't worth the travel cost, but I had to do it or... I might not be scheduled.

I'm all for nixers - Covid killed both of the ones I sometimes did, alas - but bars/restaurants in Dublin are the last place to go about it, it's an industry gone the way of McDonalds.

Absolutely.

I was lucky enough to be able to teach TEFL classes every night after college, which were fixed hours that fit in well with my lectures, but only because I'd already got a degree, the CELTA qualification and a few years' experience. It wasn't an option open to the average student or full time worker. And it only just about covered my rent. I still had to take loans out to cover the other costs.

I simply do not believe anyone can get a good degree in a worthwhile subject while working enough hours at typical student jobs to cover all of their living costs.

PHG wrote: »

I assume most people work 9-5/6. Excluding Covid times whats to stop people getting a job in a bar, restaurant etc for a year or two. Would bring in another 500 pm after tax and excluding tips.

We're very fortunate to have a deposit. Before I met my gf I saved for a deposit on my own which took me 2 years(this month being the end) for a place of 350k. My partner at one stage worked 3 jobs (before I met her) to get her deposit ready with her base job then around 32k. Now she earns a decent bit more in her current job but had to make huge sacrifices, she didn't have even a weekend away for 3 years! I work on average 60 hours a week but thankfully my package is good but career has cost me a lot personally to get here. Together we should have enough 15% deposit on a 500k place an a 3 month emergency fund which will be brought up to 6 month asap! On the side she is still considering an extra job for 2/3 monthst o get our emergency fund up quicker! I invest which brings in enough to pay for a free trip away each year.

We both paid for uni by working (I did grinds and a cleaner at weekend, she worked in a hotel). Student loans is honestly an awful idea and any student that I went to college with excluding medicine had time for an external job. Actually, thats not a full truth, my friends son is doing medicine and has a weekend job to pay for his own stuff (but yes he lives at home). My ex had a 2.2 in Media studies from a dog **** University and left with 20k in student loans and ended up ina job that was possible from A-levels only. Not a dig at her but I am still perplexed how her family let her do that.

Tbh though, life is not fair. I don't believe everyone is entitled to own their own home. For example, look on the continent where they rent for life, some people will never be able to afford their own home.

@lainey_d I am struggling to believe what you are saying about saving is 100% exact. I'm not saying you are lying but maybe a bit off. The UK tax rate is lower than Ireland. Why are you not doing a LISA provided by the govt there. You put in 4000 a year and they give you 1000 add on each year. This repeats itself over 4 years. So you put in 16000 and receive 20000. Then if you put in an S&P tracker in the LISA any gains are tax exempt. Over a 4 year period your probability of making a positive return is in the high 80th percentil. Return likely around 10% either side, so in 4 years you will have put in 16000 and MAY walk out with somewhere between 18k-22k (once it is used to draw down a house. Any other savings can go into another ISA. Its all free money The! The general rule if you are struggling to get a house deposit together is to stop your pension for 2 years and throw that money at the deposit. A 2 year period won't make a huge difference in your net worth if you own a property upon retirement.

I'm nearly sure UK companies now have to give a min of 4% towards pension anyway (open to correction on that).

My brother and his gf are doing this and expect to have to save for 3.5 more years out of 5 on a 300k place in Watford which has a 15min speed train to Euston. Plenty in the outskirts also e.g Reading. I think they earn about 75-80k between but this will likely rise a decent bit by then due to passing professional exams.

I around 40 now.
Kicked out of home at 17 because my mother didnt have a bean and sent me off to get a job.
My Dad lived abroad for almost all of my childhood.
I went to London for a few years to work on building sites.
Came back to Ireland to work on building sites after that.
Used the back to education scheme to get into uni in ireland because building was killing me. But i still did it at weekends and evenings as well as a job in a supermarket, while at uni.
While I was at uni my Dad came back to Ireland with his new wife. All our family made up.
Myself and brothers and dad started buying properties between us and doing them up to make money on the side. I also worked in a pub in the evenings.
Eventually i got a job in what i wanted to do. Did that for a few years. Went away to make more money on a contract for a year and then came back to ireland again to work.
All the while being invested in falling down properties and doing them up with my siblings.


Actually, instead of me giving out my life story, that noone wants to know anyway let me just cut to the chase.
I have never had downtime in my life. Always working at least 2 if not 3 jobs, even during the financial crash. I actually got let go from 4 different jobs between 2008 and 2010 because of the crash. I just never knew how to do anything else. Now I drank a lot, smoked a lot and went on lots of holidays. But I always made sure that I was earning double the money that I needed, so that I could save, even if it meant working 18 hours a day.

Now perhaps that was overkill, but it does not seem to be what people what are complaining about not being able to save a deposit are doing, in order to get ahead. You only have to do it for a few years.

at the end of the day, I think people just find it easier to complain and blame the system, than out their shoulder to the wheel. Yes its hard, but its not forever.

Donald Trump wrote: »

For affordability the important thing is servicing cost of the mortgage, not the notional value.

Can you explain this please?

Donald Trump wrote: »

Here is a calculator. Assume a 30 years mortgage.


2.3% rate (2 year fixed with KBC) gives a monthly repayment of 1560 per month on a 300k mortgage


IF there were 15% interest rates then the repayment on a mortgage of 125k would be 1580 per month.


Granted, that is extreme nowadays but it wouldn't have been exactly crazy in the 1980's.




The reason that the house price might now be 300k is that that is what the buyer is willing to pay for it. That same buyer, inflation adjusted, might have been only able/willing to pay 125k for it back in the day. But everyone else was subject to the same environment and all were able to pay only that amount. So the price was 125k. But that 125k back in the day might have been as affordable as 300k now. They had higher taxes back then too. Especially on higher income levels.

Replace 125k with 30-40k and that would make sense. 125k in the 80s would buy an entire street!

kippy wrote: »

Single FTB's always found it difficult to purchase a house. That's nothing new.
Not saying that things are perfect, far from it, but singly buyers will always find it more difficult than couples. The multiples you outline there tell you why.

Difficult but not impossible.

Again, there is currently not one property available to the average worker in the entire county of Dublin. Not a single one. It is not simply "difficult to purchase a house", it is "impossible to buy anything". You are in denial about a material change in circumstances we are able to show you in black and white.

Also again - single purchasers do not have the same difficulties in other countries, despite having greater rates of workforce participation by both partners. Why do you think that is?

Idbatterim wrote: »

there are a lot of posts, saying what you did to get where you are now, well done, I am currently doing it! BUT, BUT why does it need to be so hard, why are many given for free for what you burst your balls for? and if people dont see the financial correlation between one gang given everything for free and then the others struggling to pay for what the others get for free, I really do wonder!

Well do you think it should be easy or just easier? Isn't it short term? Like the saving and planning and buying is really short term pain in the grand scheme of things.
As for people getting things for free, its the country we live in and I doubt any of us can do anything about that