Is The Property Market Unfair to First Time Buyers?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Who gets what for free?

Folk getting their forever homes when they are on welfare I presume is who he is referring to.

Donald Trump

bubblypop wrote: »

Ah it is!
I'm not a first time buyer, btw, but it's obvious.
Houses used to cost 1.5/2 times a years salary. Now, they cost at least 7 times a years salary.
If course it's more difficult.

A couple earning 100k between them (perhaps technically above average, but not unusually so) can get a mortgage of 350k. A bit of a deposit there on that (you need it for LTV anyway) and you are up over 400k.



That would get you a decent house in a decent location.

Geuze

bubblypop wrote: »

Ah it is!
I'm not a first time buyer, btw, but it's obvious.
Houses used to cost 1.5/2 times a years salary. Now, they cost at least 7 times a years salary.
If course it's more difficult.

I don't think house prices were as low as 1.5x - 2x average earnings in the past?


But you are 100% correct - it is definitely much harder to buy now, in urban areas.


A couple aged 30 on 80k combined in Galway city - they can buy a house, yes, but it won't be as good as what the same type couple could have bought in 1980 or 1990.

A couple aged 30 on 80k combined in a town of 5k-10k people, over 50km from Dublin - more doable.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

A couple earning 100k between them (perhaps technically above average, but not unusually so) can get a mortgage of 350k. A bit of a deposit there on that (you need it for LTV anyway) and you are up over 400k.



That would get you a decent house in a decent location.

That's not the way mortgages are calculated. It's not 3.5 times combined income. It's 3.5 times one salary and the other is taken into account somehow

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

..... It's not 3.5 times combined income....

It is with most lenders before the sprogs come along.

Interested Observer

bubblypop wrote: »

That's not the way mortgages are calculated. It's not 3.5 times combined income. It's 3.5 times one salary and the other is taken into account somehow

I don't know where you've gotten this from but it's totally wrong. It's 3.5x combined salary. Source: when I took out my mortgage.

Donald Trump

Interested Observer wrote: »

bubblypop wrote: »

That's not the way mortgages are calculated. It's not 3.5 times combined income. It's 3.5 times one salary and the other is taken into account somehow

I don't know where you've gotten this from but it's totally wrong. It's 3.5x combined salary. Source: when I took out my mortgage.

https://www.centralbank.ie/consumer-hub/explainers/what-are-the-mortgage-measures

Central Bank wrote:

The LTI limit restricts the amount of money you can borrow to a maximum of 3.5 times your gross income. So for example, a couple with a combined income of €100,000 you can borrow up to a maximum of €350,000.
Once again banks and other lenders have the freedom to lend a certain amount above these limits. In any one calendar year they can give an allowance to:

• Up to 20% of the value of mortgages to first-time buyers
• Up to 10% of the value of mortgages to second and subsequent buyers

JimmyVik

Augeo wrote: »

Folk getting their forever homes when they are on welfare I presume is who he is referring to.

I hear him.
I grew up in a council estate.
The houses were so sh!t that lots of people went off and bought houses in private estates once they got themselves a good job and savings.
Nowadays the council houses are even better than what you would buy in a private estate, and indeed some of them are actually in those private estates.
Why on earth would someone who gets one of those amazing council houses nowadays want to better themselves to get out of where they live.
Its like winning the lottery now. Its not a net that catches you til you get back on your feet anymore.

lainey_d_123

JimmyVik wrote: »

lainey_d_123 you are what a teacher I had in secondary would call "a walking excuse factory"


Every time someone challenges your last excuse, you have another one lined up to come right after it in your next post. You must have about 50 of them built up in the posts you have made to this thread already.



Honestly with that attitude im surprised you even bother getting out of bed in the morning.

What a pathetic response.

A perfect illustration of how ableism is applauded in society.

Despite having a chronic illness and being on the autistic spectrum, I put myself through college twice, did professional qualifications at my own expense and spent time learning additional skills to make myself more employable, including learning three languages to a very high level. I graduated into the 2008 crisis and spent years doing menial work for sh1t money while trying to find something better. My initial career choice wasn't an option when I graduated, so I went into something else, that didn't work out either, and I retrained in tech at 33. The course was brutal on my mental and physical health but I pushed through it and eventually got a decent job in it. I work very hard, and work very long hours.

I've never been on the dole a day in my life and am paying out close to a grand in tax and national insurance with each paycheck here in the UK, while having to fund my own therapy and physio sessions because the NHS isn't fit for purpose.

But none of that matters, eh? Because I as a 35-year-old woman with poor health can't work 3 jobs and survive on 4 hours sleep a night and Red Bull for several years, just to get a deposit on a one-bed flat, I must just 'not be trying hard enough'.

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

.............. while having to fund my own therapy and physio sessions because the NHS isn't fit for purpose...........

Was the HSE a better set up in your experience before you moved over?

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

..............But none of that matters, eh? Because I as a 35-year-old woman with poor health can't work 3 jobs and survive on 4 hours sleep a night and Red Bull for several years, just to get a deposit on a one-bed flat, I must just 'not be trying hard enough'.

Well when you complain about problem A and someone mentions route Y you do seem to always have a problem B, C, D, E, F or G to then explain why you are on route 236952

givyjoe

bubblypop wrote: »

That's not the way mortgages are calculated. It's not 3.5 times combined income. It's 3.5 times one salary and the other is taken into account somehow

Eh, what..? Are you taking the p1ss? That is exactly the way it's calculated, i.e. 3.5 times combined salary.. We're currently Mortgage Approved with exactly that calculation.

Donald Trump

givyjoe wrote: »

Eh, what..? Are you taking the p1ss? That is exactly the way it's calculated, i.e. 3.5 times combined salary.. We're currently Mortgage Approved with exactly that calculation.

To be fair to the poster, and they were originally responding to me, the way they are saying it is (as far as I am aware) the way it used to be.


I wouldn't be getting thick with them for not knowing it is different now.

givyjoe

Donald Trump wrote: »

To be fair to the poster, and they were originally responding to me, the way they are saying it is (as far as I am aware) the way it used to be.


I wouldn't be getting thick with them for not knowing it is different now.

They appeared to be stating something as fact and it's completely incorrect, something you can easily google.. hence I genuinely wasn't sure if they were taking the p1ss of not. It's been 3.5 times your salary for years. The salary being taken into account "somehow" comment, also makes it seem like a joke.

givyjoe

givyjoe wrote: »

They appeared to be stating something as fact and it's completely incorrect, something you can easily google.. hence I genuinely wasn't sure if they were taking the p1ss of not. It's been 3.5 times your salary for years. The salary being taken into account "somehow" comment, also makes it seem like a joke.

My brother & his girlfriend just moved into their new house and their mortgage was not calculated like that, and it didn't used to be before these new rules, it was certain times one salary & the other taken into account, maybe 1.5. My friends all had different.
So no, I'm not taking the piss.
Not sure why you seem so hurt by it.

givyjoe

bubblypop wrote: »

My brother & his girlfriend just moved into their new house and their mortgage was not calculated like that, and it didn't used to be before these new rules, it was certain times one salary & the other taken into account, maybe 1.5. My friends all had different.
So no, I'm not taking the piss.
Not sure why you seem so hurt by it.

Another joke?! Why would I be hurt by it?! It's 3.5 times salary, has been for years, if you have kids, there's a proportion take off. They may have had different financial circumstances taken into consideration, but the calculation is still 3.5 times a combined salary as the max, some people can get a exceptions for more.

Things like maintenance payments, car loans etc can reduce the amount they give you, but it still starts with 3.5 times the combined salary.

jrosen

Its 3.5 times the combined income. Its been that way since I bought my last house too.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

My brother & his girlfriend just moved into their new house and their mortgage was not calculated like that, and it didn't used to be before these new rules, it was certain times one salary & the other taken into account, maybe 1.5. My friends all had different.
So no, I'm not taking the piss.
Not sure why you seem so hurt by it.

If they are all fulltime, salaried PAYE folk without sprogs then it's 3.5 times combined income.

JimmyVik

To be fair I have had it in my head for years that it was 3.5 times the highest income plus the second income.
Dont know where I got it from tbh

Luca G

I'm on 50k and girlfriend on 30k.
do they multiple then both by 3.5 ?

I also make 14k from rent do they accept that as income aswell?

What about savings account how does that come in to account say I have 30k In savings?

Luca G

Luca G wrote: »

I'm on 50k and girlfriend on 30k.
do they multiple then both by 3.5 ? ........

Yes, in most cases

Luca G wrote: »

I also make 14k from rent do they accept that as income aswell? ........

Nope....... if the rental property is mortgaged that might well impact how much you can borrow.

Luca G wrote: »

........What about savings account how does that come in to account say I have 30k In savings?

Usually comes into account by way of the deposit......... 20% if you aren't a first time buyer.

Eric Cartman

Taylor365 wrote: »

No mobile phones. Right I'll go with he 80s:

Average wage of £8,000-15,000 a year.
Dublin 3 bed cost about £30,000.


Now:

Average wage of €30,000-50,000 a year.
Dublin 3 bed cost about €400,000.

80s : one income looks after a husband, wife and 2-3 kids
now : two incomes look after two people and a dog.

80s : no central heating and a bit of fibreglass in the attic, 1 bathroom
now : underfloor heat pump heating throughout, 3 bathrooms, solar panels etc..

Luca G

Nope....... if the rental property is mortgaged that might well impact how much you can borrow.

Thanks I was thinking that. I dont have it payed into my account so can they tell I have money coming in from rent ?



Usually comes into account by way of the deposit......... 20% if you aren't a first time buyer.[/quote]

I will be a first time buyer planning to build on family land.

cnocbui

Eric Cartman wrote: »

80s : one income looks after a husband, wife and 2-3 kids
now : two incomes look after two people and a dog.

80s : no central heating and a bit of fibreglass in the attic, 1 bathroom
now : underfloor heat pump heating throughout, 3 bathrooms, solar panels etc..

You can add to that the €8,200 over 10 years people now spend on mobile phones and internet they didn't use to, which you could increase if you include things like Sky and Netflix\Amazon\Disney and a few more thousand on consoles and gaming.

Luca G

Luca G wrote: »

Nope....... if the rental property is mortgaged that might well impact how much you can borrow.
.........

I will be a first time buyer planning to build on family land.

How can you be a first time buyer with rental income from a mortgaged property?

givyjoe

Luca G wrote: »

I'm on 50k and girlfriend on 30k.
do they multiple then both by 3.5 ?

I also make 14k from rent do they accept that as income aswell?

What about savings account how does that come in to account say I have 30k In savings?

Yes to Q1. Not sure on Q2, not exactly on Q3. You need to have 10% (20% if not FTB) of the deposit saved assuming you're FTB. They won't give you more money based on the savings you have as such, but depending on spending habits they may give you an exception to the 3.5 times salary rule and let you borrow more. Exceptions from what I hear are all gone for this year, not clear as to whether any bank will offer them next year considering the ongoing pandemic.

Just try a few banks mortgage calculators your income figures.

ELM327

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

What a pathetic response.

A perfect illustration of how ableism is applauded in society.

Despite having a chronic illness and being on the autistic spectrum, I put myself through college twice, did professional qualifications at my own expense and spent time learning additional skills to make myself more employable, including learning three languages to a very high level. I graduated into the 2008 crisis and spent years doing menial work for sh1t money while trying to find something better. My initial career choice wasn't an option when I graduated, so I went into something else, that didn't work out either, and I retrained in tech at 33. The course was brutal on my mental and physical health but I pushed through it and eventually got a decent job in it. I work very hard, and work very long hours.

I've never been on the dole a day in my life and am paying out close to a grand in tax and national insurance with each paycheck here in the UK, while having to fund my own therapy and physio sessions because the NHS isn't fit for purpose.

But none of that matters, eh? Because I as a 35-year-old woman with poor health can't work 3 jobs and survive on 4 hours sleep a night and Red Bull for several years, just to get a deposit on a one-bed flat, I must just 'not be trying hard enough'.

I'm 34 and on the autism spectrum too. I have aspergers. I'm also a college dropout from TCD.


I started in my current company in November 2009. I'm currently a senior risk data analyst - a role that suits perfectly the strengths of my ASD brain, logic and numbers and binary facts.
I worked prior to that as a pricing analyst in the energy sector, same deal.


I have my own (owned) 3 bed apartment now and we are looking to move in the next 12 months to a large house outside in the country. Withboth of us working from home, we are thinking about wexford to be beside the sea (sea noises are super calming for me when I'm overwhelmed).


If I can do that theres no reason anyone else on the spectrum can't. No offense but it really bugs me when people use ASD as an excuse. Sure it's difficult and there's days I need to walk circles, punch knuckles on the wall, lie in a dark room, etc. But I get by.

brisan

Donald Trump wrote: »

Here is a calculator. Assume a 30 years mortgage.


2.3% rate (2 year fixed with KBC) gives a monthly repayment of 1560 per month on a 300k mortgage


IF there were 15% interest rates then the repayment on a mortgage of 125k would be 1580 per month.


Granted, that is extreme nowadays but it wouldn't have been exactly crazy in the 1980's.




The reason that the house price might now be 300k is that that is what the buyer is willing to pay for it. That same buyer, inflation adjusted, might have been only able/willing to pay 125k for it back in the day. But everyone else was subject to the same environment and all were able to pay only that amount. So the price was 125k. But that 125k back in the day might have been as affordable as 300k now. They had higher taxes back then too. Especially on higher income levels.

14-18% mortgage rates were the norm in the early 80s

brisan

Donald Trump wrote: »

See in my post where I said "inflation adjusted".


Whom do you know in the 1980s who would have been able to pay about 1200 punts an month on a mortgage?!

I had a good job and I would not have taken home 1200 a month in the early -mid 80s
Lucky to hit a grand take home

brisan

jill_valentine wrote: »

The salary cap thing just doesn't seem to sink in no matter how many times it's explained here... It's a hard barrier you can't negotiate with no matter how much can-do spirit and elbow grease you can bring.

Exemptions were, as you say, very rare even when they were happening, there was a fairly small quota they were allowed to give out and afaik many institutions didn't even max that out.

I can guarantee you if the salary cap was raised to 4.5 ,house prices would rise to meet it overnight
See the price rises the day after the HTB was increased

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

.........


If I can do that theres no reason anyone else on the spectrum can't. No offense but it really bugs me when people use ASD as an excuse. Sure it's difficult and there's days I need to walk circles, punch knuckles on the wall, lie in a dark room, etc. But I get by.

They have a chronic illness as well as ASD.