Is The Property Market Unfair to First Time Buyers?

brisan

Idbatterim wrote: »

there are a lot of posts, saying what you did to get where you are now, well done, I am currently doing it! BUT, BUT why does it need to be so hard, why are many given for free for what you burst your balls for? and if people dont see the financial correlation between one gang given everything for free and then the others struggling to pay for what the others get for free, I really do wonder!

There was always social housing
People always got houses for free
its not a new thing

brisan

JimmyVik wrote: »

To be fair I have had it in my head for years that it was 3.5 times the highest income plus the second income.
Dont know where I got it from tbh

Back in the 80s it was something like that
They assumed the woman was on the lower wage and would give up work once a child was born

ELM327

Augeo wrote: »

They have a chronic illness as well as ASD.

That's hardly a barrier to employment these days.
I'm immunocompromised as a sufferer of severe lung issues and the resultant medication.


The mrs has bipolar and other ENT physical issues too. We're both college dropouts yet well remunerated employees contributing to the tax take and even started our own small business - albeit that's gone to the wayside since march.


Chronic issues, mental or physical, are not a barrier to employment. Unless you are so bad that you are in a hospital or care.

Dwarf.Shortage

brisan wrote: »

I had a good job and I would not have taken home 1200 a month in the early -mid 80s
Lucky to hit a grand take home

You could have got a second job, tightened your belt, not spent so much money.

Only short £50 a week, make some sacrifices.

(fully aware this is nonsense, just mirroring your own advice back to you)

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

That's hardly a barrier to employment these days.
.......

Indeed, the poster is employed.
Chronic illness can of course be very serious though.

Bigmac1euro

DellyBelly wrote: »

I would disagree with that. I know plenty of people in their early 30s who would have more than 100k in savings. Some of course is via inheritance but mostly though saving hard. A person on 80k plus (which is average enough in Dublin) should be able to save this with a bit of disciplince

This is the most ridiculous post I’ve ever read on this website. Not in my 30’s yet and me and my partner bought a house in Dublin.
She’s on below average wage and I’m on just above average. We’re preparing for negative equity as there’s more than likely a crash around the corner but it doesn’t bother us our mortgage is still cheaper than our rent would be on a 1 bed apartment.
We bought a 3 bed semi-d with drive way.
We settled on a nice estate near train station in D15

There is still some value to be had but people are being too picky imo.

Donald Trump

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

You could have got a second job, tightened your belt, not spent so much money.

Only short £50 a week, make some sacrifices.

(fully aware this is nonsense, just mirroring your own advice back to you)

He was responding to a post I had made where I had pointed out that the sevicing cost on a 300k mortgage today might be equivalent to the sevice cost on an (inflation adjusted) mortgage of 125k back in the 80's




Another poster seemed to think I was talking about nominal values and I was pointing out to that poster that it would have been unlikely that I would have been claiming that 1200 pounds nominally a month in the 1980's was as affordable as 1500 Euro nominally today. I had obviously been talking in terms of todays money. (I had even explicitly said inflation adjusted in my original post)

Donald Trump

I wouldn't criticise anyone with a chronic illness. Nobody else can really understand those things unless you are close to them. Every case is different

Padre_Pio

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

This is the most ridiculous post I’ve ever read on this website. Not in my 30’s yet and me and my partner bought a house in Dublin.
She’s on below average wage and I’m on just above average. We’re preparing for negative equity as there’s more than likely a crash around the corner but it doesn’t bother us our mortgage is still cheaper than our rent would be on a 1 bed apartment.
We bought a 3 bed semi-d with drive way.
We settled on a nice estate near train station in D15

There is still some value to be had but people are being too picky imo.

It's pure nonsense. I don't know what fairy world some people live in.

Even best case,
Say you finish college at 22.
Get first job at 30k and get 5-10k wage increment every year to get to 80k by the time you're 30.

You still wouldn't be near 100k in the bank. Of course in this scenario you're lucky enough to still live at home, not run a car and zero expenses apart from the essentials:rolleyes:

Padre_Pio

Padre_Pio wrote: »

...........
Even best case,
Say you finish college at 22.
Get first job at 30k and get 5-10k wage increment every year to get to 80k by the time you're 30.

You still wouldn't be near 100k in the bank. Of course in this scenario you're lucky enough to still live at home, not run a car and zero expenses apart from the essentials:rolleyes:

To be fair they said early 30s .......... if you are on €80k annum at 30, saving €1500/month would be possible .......... that's €18k/annum...... do that for when you are 30, 31, 32 and 33 and you've €72k.

Given the figures you detailed........ saving €28k from 22 to 29 would be possible.

Hard to do if you want the travel thr world, year in Oz and a new car every 2/3 years when you come home alright but definitely do able for someone using your figures of "Say you finish college at 22.
Get first job at 30k and get 5-10k wage increment every year to get to 80k by the time you're 30" and running it into 33 which is early 30s

HTH

The increment thing is a tad off the mark though IMO, high earners generally change jobs, they don't just get annual increments.

brisan

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

You could have got a second job, tightened your belt, not spent so much money.

Only short £50 a week, make some sacrifices.

(fully aware this is nonsense, just mirroring your own advice back to you)

Had a second job
Nixered like mad throughout the 80s
Extensions ,alarms rewires anything to turn a shilling

Padre_Pio

Augeo wrote: »

To be fair they said early 30s .......... if you are on €80k annum at 30, saving €1500/month would be possible .......... that's €18k/annum...... do that for when you are 30, 31, 32 and 33 and you've €72k.

The increment thing is a tad off the mark though IMO, high earners generally change jobs, they don't just get annual increments.

I know the increments are off, I'm just trying to find an average.

Is it possible? Technically yes.
Provided you immediately land on your feet with a well paying, stable job and career path. Saving for a house is your only goal. No pension contributions, no shares, only essential expenses. No weddings, no kids, no holidays and really, no enjoying your 20's.

Is it common? Not at all. The census says the average net wealth for a person under 65 is 73k. So half that sample population have 30 years head start.
It's very disheartening to hear the "avocado toast" argument trotted out again and again.

EDIT: Census link here: https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-hfcs/householdfinanceandconsumptionsurvey2018/wealth/
Let me know if I'm reading it incorrectly.

Luca G

Augeo wrote: »

How can you be a first time buyer with rental income from a mortgaged property?

I got a credit union loan for a granny flat built on the side of my mothers house in my early 20s have rented it out and its paid off.

Padre_Pio

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I know the increments are off, I'm just trying to find an average.

Is it possible? Technically yes.
Provided you immediately land on your feet with a well paying, stable job and career path. Saving for a house is your only goal. No pension contributions, no shares, only essential expenses. No weddings, no kids, no holidays and really, no enjoying your 20's.................

When we are talking about folk in their early 30s on €80k/annum they obviously aren't the average person.

That said, you can save money whilst having holidays, contributing to pensions and also enjoy your 20s. Shares can be quite tax efficient bonuses and result in the person having more money so I'm not sure why you are listing them.

Folk into hiking etc enjoy it as much as folk into drinking €100+/weekend do I'm sure.

Luca G

Luca G wrote: »

I got a credit union loan for a granny flat built on the side of my mothers house in my early 20s have rented it out and its paid off.

You never had a mortgaged property so.

Idbatterim

brisan wrote: »

There was always social housing
People always got houses for free
its not a new thing

you dont see the correlation between that and others not being able to afford their own home or really having to struggle? you actually think its fine, for one to be handed it, paid for by those themselves working and in a fcuked position?

brisan

Idbatterim wrote: »

you dont see the correlation between that and others not being able to afford their own home or really having to struggle? you actually think its fine, for one to be handed it, paid for by those themselves working and in a fcuked position?

I am not saying its a good thing neither am I saying its a bad thing
I am saying it has always been a thing

De Danann

Just turned 30 and will hopefully be getting my first house in the new year. I have been saving steadily for ten years and daydreaming about this for ten years..
My main issue right now is lack of housing supply and cash buyers swooping in on the few houses I can afford to mortgage. I'm about to step into a promotion with much higher wage than now so I'm hoping that will give me some wiggle room with the wage cap and so there'll be more options to go for.
I've contacted several estate agents over the last few weeks before lockdown to try arrange viewings and was told every time the property was already sale agreed??! (Ad had only been posted the day before in many cases)

Luca G

Augeo wrote: »

You never had a mortgaged property so.

No I never said I did.
just have a granny flat rented out.

So I would still be a first time buyer when I go for a mortgage.

givyjoe

De Danann wrote: »

Just turned 30 and will hopefully be getting my first house in the new year. I have been saving steadily for ten years and daydreaming about this for ten years..
My main issue right now is lack of housing supply and cash buyers swooping in on the few houses I can afford to mortgage. I'm about to step into a promotion with much higher wage than now so I'm hoping that will give me some wiggle room with the wage cap and so there'll be more options to go for.
I've contacted several estate agents over the last few weeks before lockdown to try arrange viewings and was told every time the property was already sale agreed??! (Ad had only been posted the day before in many cases)

They seem to refresh all of of their ads quite regularly, at least a lot of agents do. So it looks like it's brand new. If you check the number of views (beside date added on daft app), if its new/a few days old listing, the views should only be in the hundreds. If its in the thousands, you know its been up a while. I've often seen properties look brand new, but have thousands of views due to them being previously sale agreed and falling through.

Donald Trump

Luca G wrote: »

No I never said I did.
just have a granny flat rented out.

So I would still be a first time buyer when I go for a mortgage.

You might not get away with that if you have been renting under "rent-a-room" relief. Perhaps if you did it through the house-owner then it wouldn't be flagged as easily (not opining on strict legality of same)


Is first time buyer literally a first time buyer, or does it mean a first time owner?


Edit: BofI indicates literally a first time buyer - https://www.bankofireland.com/help-centre/faq/first-time-buyer/ . I would have assumed that inheriting a house, for example, would disqualify you from the relief but it looks like I assumed incorrectly

Geuze

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Is it common? Not at all. The census says the average net wealth for a person under 65 is 73k. So half that sample population have 30 years head start.
It's very disheartening to hear the "avocado toast" argument trotted out again and again.

EDIT: Census link here: https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-hfcs/householdfinanceandconsumptionsurvey2018/wealth/
Let me know if I'm reading it incorrectly.

Where are you getting the 73k from, I can't see it?

What table?

Padre_Pio

Geuze wrote: »

Where are you getting the 73k from, I can't see it?

What table?

Table 5.1

One adult <65 median NET wealth 73.7k.

Whats the difference between Net and Gross wealth in this context?

Padre_Pio

Augeo wrote: »

When we are talking about folk in their early 30s on €80k/annum they obviously aren't the average person.

The person I was replying to said in relation to early 30 year olds with 100k in their bank account "A person on 80k plus (which is average enough in Dublin) should be able to save this with a bit of disciplince"

It's my point that they are far from average.

Augeo wrote: »

That said, you can save money whilst having holidays, contributing to pensions and also enjoy your 20s. Shares can be quite tax efficient bonuses and result in the person having more money so I'm not sure why you are listing them.

True, but good luck getting to 100k while having these things. Shares are only tax efficient if your company has a share scheme. I meant shares in a general investment sense, post PAYE. Shares schemes are usually locked in for a rolling 3 years and are not counted towards your mortgage application.

Augeo wrote: »

Folk into hiking etc enjoy it as much as folk into drinking €100+/weekend do I'm sure.

I'm sure they do.

Jimson

Outside of Dublin you should be able to get some sort of property. I'm on 38K. Rent 800 and saving 800 a month. No loans.

Currently have 15000 saved and plan on buying this time next year. Should be be able to get semi d for 140K or apartment over 20 years.

I could probably earn 65K if I went to Dublin but I'd actually be worse off.

Padre_Pio

Padre_Pio wrote: »

The person I was replying to said in relation to early 30 year olds with 100k in their bank account "A person on 80k plus (which is average enough in Dublin) should be able to save this with a bit of disciplince"

It's my point that they are far from average. ............

You also disputed they could save €100k iirc.

Shoden

I actually question the narrative running through this thread that it's always been very hard to buy a house on a single income. Families in the past were very often single income until it became the norm that both parents worked.

Shoden

Shoden wrote: »

I actually question the narrative running through this thread that it's always been very hard to buy a house on a single income...............

Take the 80s, there was high unemployment. You dispute it was hard to buy a house in the 80s?

The councils built fnck load of houses in the 60s, 70s and 80s to house folk as there were no other options for many. Folk bought private houses but it was not at all easy ....... you needed a decent job in the first instance.

Corporation houses in Tallaght, Crumlin, Walkinstown, Ballymun, Dolphins Barn etc etc weren't all built as there was fnck loads of people housing themselves easily on their single family incomes.

kippy

Shoden wrote: »

I actually question the narrative running through this thread that it's always been very hard to buy a house on a single income. Families in the past were very often single income until it became the norm that both parents worked.

That is a fair point.
However, at least from my homeplace most couples built houses on family land generally with the help of a council loan/mortgage.
So my own experience in this is rather limited.

Luca G

Luca G wrote: »

No I never said I did.
just have a granny flat rented out.

So I would still be a first time buyer when I go for a mortgage.

Danny552 wrote: »

..............

What if the granny flat was in your parents name or they got the loan under there name but you payed the loan back.

Then you would be a first time buyer they have no way In knowing if you collect rent if you get it in cash or
once its not in the same bank you are getting a mortgage from can have it payed into a completely different bank.

Are ye the same poster with two accounts?
If not three accounts.

Third one.....
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115124158&postcount=248